INCOMING !! New frame day… Bird Aether 7

Oh FFS, rubber buccy was taking the piss….
Wasn’t he?

Surely you’re not going to change the bloody bike again Renton!?

Tell you what. Given you’re not so convinced by the LLS, I have the perfect bike for you….. Giant Anthem Advanced 29er. 100mm travel, steep angles, twitchy as ****, fast as hell uphill and on smooth ground. Very responsive. You’ll love it. 😉

I can understand what you are saying.  Long bikes can be great for giving extra stability and confidence but the flip side is I find they take more effort to lift the front etc.  Not very helpful for me as a very mediocre rider when trying to learn new stuff.  I very nearly took my hardtail on my session with Katy for that very reason, only the thought of all those FoD roots stopped me

Oh FFS, rubber buccy was taking the piss….

Nope, saw it in the classifieds so checked back here to see if the race had been bad…..it wasn’t so I wondered what Weeksy was thinking

Surely you’re not going to change the bloody bike again Renton!?

Renton didn’t ride his bikes, I was racing last weekend, I was at FoD today, Swinley on Sat, mountain view bike park on Monday, I ride and ride plenty.

I don’t want a 29er lol or 100mm travel.

What I want, may well be the Bird, but it also may not be. We’ll see.

Either way, I’ll still be out riding with my lad and my mates.

In order to potentially answer some questions to myself I’m going to do the pressures on my lads Sworks and try it at the weekend. It won’t be as tech as some I’ve been riding, but will give a decent indication of whether it’ll make any difference.

I’m not sitting here thinking a different bike will move me from the back of a race to the front of it, I know it’s not the bike holding me back. But that doesn’t mean a different one wouldn’t make sone stuff easier

Wonder if a M/L might work a better for you. I was on a L 120 and Zero AM. Current bike maps more across to a M/L and I find it better under me.

Rich

I bought the ML because I like a fun bike (frame arrived yesterday!) and I think it’ll be just about ok.

For what’s it’s worth, I had a 2015/16 Enduro and hated the thing, so short and high – like you’re perched on top of it, so outdated. I’d ride your boys one for a bit to see how you get on, a large one won’t be much better.

From what I’ve read about you (that you’ve written, not what your detractors have said) I don’t think you’re an LLS rider, so something a bit more traditional might suit you really well. I look forward to seeing what replaces the Aether, and I look forward to seeing what you do with it – I love a fettle on my bikes but my budget doesn’t seem to go as far as yours!

Long bikes can be great for giving extra stability and confidence but the flip side is I find they take more effort to lift the front etc.

Only if the length comes from the rear centre, I think? The L Aether 7 has a front-rear ratio of 1.92, which is quite out-there compared to others. The M Enduro 27.5 is 1.76 out of interest.

From what I’ve read about you (that you’ve written, not what your detractors have said) I don’t think you’re an LLS rider, so something a bit more traditional might suit you really well. I look forward to seeing what replaces the Aether, and I look forward to seeing what you do with it – I love a fettle on my bikes but my budget doesn’t seem to go as far as yours!

I couldn’t care less what anyone says who knocks me, especially people who don’t see me ride or know me. I justify owning my bikes ten-fold in my opinion. 🙂

My budget hasn’t changed much though, i have been exceptionally lucky and fortunate with a few purchases, my G-160 cost me £1000 and was stunning, so if the Aether7 sells then most of the funding comes from getting into the G-160 cheaply. It’s not like i’m throwing countless funds at this quest.

As it stands, overnight i got nothing on terms of bites on the Aether7 so maybe i was overly optimistic on pricing, but it’s not getting dropped as i’d need a decent price to get another bike of equivalent sort of spec. But i’m honestly OK with that, as i said, it’s far from terrible as far as bikes go and in many forms and terms of riding it blows the G-160 out the water. But i am seeming to find myself in ‘other’ types of riding at times now where as i say, something a bit easier/quicker to turn may be better.
We’ve got a little segment or 2 that replicates that sort of riding not too far from home, so i’ll head over at lunch today with the boy and his bike and have a play on both.

One of the things done yesterday at Katy Curd was rotating the bars back, which once i got home i actually turned a little more (at her advice/guidance) again, which has brought the front end back quite a bit already, so it could easily transpire it’s getting ‘there’ on it’s own anyhow.

I’m just a little prone to quick fix decisions and “sod it, lets see what happens” with bikes 🙂

If it doesn’t sell and you wanted to shorten what you have there are reach adjust headsets that would knock a bit off the length.

I could arguably knock 5mm off the length with a shorter stem too, i’m currently running a 40mm so could go 35mm.

I’m honestly not as worried as it maybe comes over, in the vast majority of circumstances it’s great. Just some of the stuff we’re riding lately. If it doesn’t sell over the weekend, i certainly won’t be losing sleep.

I don’t know if you use Facebook, but I’ve had the best luck selling bikes/bike stuff on FB Marketplace in the last year and a half, I think I’ve only managed to sell a shockwiz on here – nice chap mind.

I don’t do FB mate no, don’t have an account.

The fact i’ve not thrown it on Ebay shows I’m still not quite all in on this decision. It’s a tentative listing rather than decisive 🙂

The aether actually has a really short back end (425mm chainstays) to keep it fun and nimble in the corners – maybe you’ve overdone it on the reach. How tall are you? Bird would suggest at 5’9 I went ML but I know I have struggled a bit on the last bike with a 481mm reach so I sized down to a medium. Really playful and just what I was after.

The Aether has a low stack for the reach I reckon – can you get anymore spacers under your stem (not sure if you are running any on top)? Also you could go up to a 150mm fork to shorten the reach if you’re on 140mm now. Airspring for a Yari is cheap.

Running my medium Aether with 150mm fork, 50mm stem with a slight rise (dmr defy) and quite a few spacers under it.

The problem with running a short stem is you have to ride it even more aggressively over the front to get any traction.

As for your racing & making up time – unless you’re Richie Rude/Jack Moir, then there is always time left on the tracks. It can be hard to see it sometimes, but it’s all the classics of carrying your speed, pedalling a bit harder out of corners & braking harder & later when needed. Coaching will certainly help embed the skillset to do that with more confidence too.

And ultimately, racing more will condition you to that different ‘race’ mindset – which is a perfect example in my case. The guy who won beat me by 3 seconds & in reality I should have put 15-20 seconds into him, because I know for me to be in the right headspace I need to do a few races to remember what I need to do.

But, that’s racing – we all have a ‘what if’ scenario.

I don’t do FB mate no, don’t have an account.

The fact i’ve not thrown it on Ebay shows I’m still not quite all in on this decision. It’s a tentative listing rather than decisive 🙂

Fair enough. If it wasn’t for Marketplace I’d have deleted it a long time ago.

I’ve got an AM9 in ML and despite all the charts recommending a M/L I do sometimes think I’d have been better on a M – I bought it at the outset of covid while demo’s were cancelled, otherwise I’d have tried both. Saying that I could have demo’d them both and preferred them M/L

How tall are you?

Dead on 6’0

My G160 was a 2017 medium, which unless i’m mistaken seemed to be the same reach. Hence why i went with the L.

The Aether has a low stack for the reach I reckon – can you get anymore spacers under your stem (not sure if you are running any on top)? Also you could go up to a 150mm fork to shorten the reach if you’re on 140mm now. Airspring for a Yari is cheap.

Running my medium Aether with 150mm fork, 50mm stem with a slight rise (dmr defy) and quite a few spacers under it.

It’s at 150 with a new 150 2021 damper installed as i dropped from 160.

I could add 5mm spacer, i’ve got one on top of bars and 20mm under them currently.

As for your racing & making up time – unless you’re Richie Rude/Jack Moir, then there is always time left on the tracks. It can be hard to see it sometimes, but it’s all the classics of carrying your speed, pedalling a bit harder out of corners & braking harder & later when needed. Coaching will certainly help embed the skillset to do that with more confidence too.

And ultimately, racing more will condition you to that different ‘race’ mindset – which is a perfect example in my case. The guy who won beat me by 3 seconds & in reality I should have put 15-20 seconds into him, because I know for me to be in the right headspace I need to do a few races to remember what I need to do.

But, that’s racing – we all have a ‘what if’ scenario.

Honestly there’s no time to be made up… well, that’s the wrong terminolgy, there’s no time to be made up that will massively affect my result 😀
From me to 3 guys in front i could make up, but the gap from there to the next bunch ahead is completely massive and will/would require a completely different skillset, mindset and fitness/ability. It’s simply not going to happen.

But i’m OK with that, i’m not racing enduro to win, to place or to even care too much, i race it to spend time out with my lad. I can’t understand all these parents i see at races who don’t ride too, despite when chatting to them they seem to be riders. I just do the races to have laughs with my lad and have my ass whooped by him, then we have the banter in the pub/hotel after and our chats of near death experiences 🙂

I think that at 6ft the medium Enduro will be a bit tight in the cockpit for you, its about 3 inch shorter than the Bird. At 5ft 9 its spot on for me, I don’t get on with LLS.
When I got the new Enduro although the bike is longer it only took me one run in Finale to get used to it, however everything else had been set up the same.
Kevin is 6ft and runs a large which feels too long for me although when he rides a medium it doesn’t slow him down but looks a bit cramped when climbing.
Let us know how you get on today and take no notice of the negatives. What ever the bike and the set up if it doesn’t feel right you will never be 100% happy and at the end of the day that’s what its all about

My G160 was a 2017 medium, which unless i’m mistaken seemed to be the same reach. Hence why i went with the L.

Might not be? Unless geometry changed in the subsequent MY.

Had mine for just under 2 months now and really like it. It’s the first time I’ve felt properly in a bike rather than on top of it. You definitely get more out of it by leaning into the front, which in hindsight is what I’ve wanted to do on previous bikes but frequently sank back for fear of going over. Had a couple of pedal strikes but it’s manageable.

I spent a lot of time and demos deliberating between A7/A9 and ML/L (181cm and +11 span). Settled with the A7 because it felt more fun, plus confident in the air, even if not always as fast. The difference between ML and L was much more subtle at first. It wasn’t until things got hairy or I got fatigued that the L became much easier to misstep, even with a 32mm stem. Whereas I could dig myself out every time on the ML. It might have been possible to remedy with more changes and practice but I’m happy with the decision.

Learnt that reading experiences and comparing numbers is no substitute for trying. I’d definitely recommend playing with the cockpit more and slinging your leg over an ML frame if you have the chance.

According to geometry geeks the 2017 g160 in medium has exactly the same reach as the ML Aether 7. The Large Aether 7 is 25mm longer reach – so that might be your issue (the Large Aether is longer than the large whyte g160 incidentally).

That’s quite a lot longer to get used to. That said I don’t think you’ve given it enough chance yet – I persevered with my ML Aeris for 3 years before sizing down for the Aether 🤷‍♂️. I still had an enjoyable time on it and got quicker and quicker and it brought on my riding skills quite a lot. Riding more ‘front aggressive’ which is actually quicker most of the time. Still riding the same on the Aether.

According to geometry geeks the 2017 g160 in medium has exactly the same reach as the ML Aether 7. The Large Aether 7 is 25mm longer reach – so that might be your issue (the Large Aether is longer than the large whyte g160 incidentally).

Maybe my Google Fu failed me then 😀 😀 Weird.

Anyway, with the level of interest i’ve had in the bike it looks like it’ll be staying 😀

All good fun though and interesting to get some ideas and thoughts. Not riding it today despite heading to Southampton Bike Park shortly, but i’ve got to work so can’t really do the riding thing.

Swinley Summit tomorrow though with the bars rotated back a bit. Although there’s nothing ‘techie’ there in that context.

I don’t like long long bikes, although compared to bikes from a decade ago my bikes massive! About 455mm reach and 620mm stack at about 5’11 with long arms and legs.

Here’s a weird observation about fit though – I’d had a 50mm stem on my hardtail but it felt too long. I lengthened the fork which raised the stack and shortened the reach and swapped to a 35mm stem. That felt better but still not right. As I had the 50mm stem still I tried that again. That 15mm longer stem make the bike feel shorter. Yes, WTAF?!!

All I can surmise is the longer stem added stability giving more confidence to shift my weight forwards onto the bars, and in that less rearwards hip position the bars were therefore closer which made the bike feel smaller. Bikes are complicated!

I’m a big advocate of higher bars too – with steep seat angles you don’t need low bars to pedal up steep climbs, and if you’re not a 20something pro then your body is likely to be happier in a less extreme hinge. Weeksy, I’ve noticed you tend to have quite a rounded upper bike in photos on the bike, which suggests you’re not managing to hinge far enough at the hips and thus having to hunch your upper back down to reach the bars. Higher bars will help this, so I’d swap that spacer to see if it improves things.

I’ve got rid of loads of bikes after finding they weren’t to my liking at the time then regretted selling a few too soon.

But that’s me wanting to try all sorts of bikes haha. Funnily enough, I’m on an Aether 9 now and it really surprised me how good it actually is.

My shock bushes are wearing prematurely though so I was a bit annoyed about that. I’m 6’2″ and got a large based on reach/ top tube of previous bikes.

It felt comfortable instantly for me (previously had an XL Pace RC529 that felt way too big).

I think you’re right to have a mess about and see if you can get it to work. There’s nothing stopping you from just doing a frame swap down the line I suppose 🙂

If you’re pushing out of your comfort zone every so often, it’s not about times, it’s about feeling more confident and comfortable.

Definitely play around with settings before considering selling and jumping to something else – which also might end up being wrong.

There is something to the LLS thing – I like it more than old SSS – just I’ve dialled it back from the really long for me. The Aether is actually still nearly 64 degree HA with a 150mm fork which is great for stability and I don’t find that’s what dulls bikes down on flow trails. I think too long or suspension kinematics make a bigger difference for me.

I’d stick that spacer below the stem and fiddle a bit more with the roll of your bars. If I remember rightly you’ve already got quite a high rise bar on there anyway – so that probably means rolling makes quite a difference.

I haven’t had the same as ChiefGG with shorter / longer stems but I can certainly see some logic there – it could pull your weight further forward so weighting that front wheel more with less of a conscious effort to do so. Conversely it might slow the steering down maybe 🤷‍♂️. If you’ve got a spare 50mm stem (you’re bound to in your spares box) it won’t cost anything to try it. Just try one thing at a time otherwise you don’t know what change has made which difference.

If all else fails it might be worth posting on the Bird owners Facebook page – you might find someone who’d be up for a straight swap – either to an ML Aether or a ML AM160 / 145 / 145LT

I’ve been on an Aeris 145 for about 3 years, and like weeksy is possibly finding, we all know by now that LLS needs a bit different riding technique to more trad geometries. I’m 60, and ride pretty lazy on the bike- I’ve a buggered knee, and I tend to spend more time sitting than I should, and even when standing I’m not as mobile as i should be. My point is that LLS needs a bit more body english and/or speed to get the bike up and carving, otherwise you’re not doing it justice, and it’ll not work properly. TBH, the only time I really feel at home on the bike is in the fast steep stuff, preferably on an uplift day. It replaced a Mojo HD, and the difference between the two is immense- the Mojo is for me a better bike in the twisties, but in the Alps, or at BPW, the 145 is more capable, far faster and a lot safer, for me. Again, the Mojo’s DW link seems to give a better pedalling platform than the bird. Sadly, the Bird is not much fun where I live, but I have other bikes etc etc.

Weeksy seems to focus on trying to fix the suspension, but I wonder whether the issue is actually him failing to adapt to the geometry (and that’s not an insult/criticism, just a fact) for some of us LLS needs more rider input to get the best out of it, and we might just not be up to it, whether through habit, fitness, injury, skills, age etc etc et

You’re totally right – you need to ride more aggressively towards the front of the bike – otherwise it’s either slow to turn in – especially on sharp / slow corners – or I’m faster flatter corners with little to no support the front wheel can wash out when you don’t expect it.

I’m finding the opposite with the cheapy Haro 24” wheel bmx I’ve bought – you merely think about a corner and you’ve twitched round it 🤣

Weeksy seems to focus on trying to fix the suspension, but I wonder whether the issue is actually him failing to adapt to the geometry (and that’s not an insult/criticism, just a fact) for some of us LLS needs more rider input to get the best out of it, and we might just not be up to it, whether through habit, fitness, injury, skills, age etc etc et

I’ve also as you may have seen had a day with Katy Curd which may hopefully help as there were cornering techniques which may have a benefit regarding the turning side of things too. A lot of that is relating to weight/position/riding the front end.

I’m not really working on the suspension as such i was just trying to dial it in and get it right, i’m really happy with the bouncy side of things now.

I do still find myself at times running wide though, which could be just me riding it wrong (i’m not going to argue) but also a factor of the bike that maybe i will get to adjust to or indeed maybe i won’t… I dunno yet.

As we stand, i’ve not had any interest in the bike on the adverts so the ‘selling’ side of things is all a moot point currently 🙂

“I do still find myself at times running wide though”

You generally need to lean bikes over more if they’re longer and/or have larger wheels. Push that inside hand down harder, possibly earlier too.

Running wise is probably a symptom of not weighting the front wheel enough. Whether that’s something you can fix or not you won’t find out without riding it some more.

Based on my session with Katy she’ll have you trying to weight the front more / pushing the inside handlebar end down into the corner / outside foot weighted / hips turned into the corner. The he thing I sometimes forget unless I’m consciously thinking about it is the hip twist. Makes a fair amount of difference to me.

I also find on steep tech I have to constantly think elbows bent / get low in the middle of the bike. The temptation is to lean back / get your weight behind the saddle but that makes steep switchbacks really hard. Middle of the bike (but low) makes a massive difference.

A lot of that is relating to weight/position/riding the front end.

That’s what a few folks were trying to tell you a few pages back.
Oh well at least you’re beginning to understand now.
Stick with the bike you have and concentrate on that.
This might be of use to you too.

you can get headsets that cab adjust reach by a small amount (maybe 0.5-1cm max?)- maybe try one of them initially, if this feels too much longer than you’re used to ?

Remember when I was a kid, got my first pushbike, and my dad said, ‘don’t use the front brake too much, you’ll skid and go over the bars”. Or I got my first dirt bike, and a friend’s brother told me ‘don’t use your front brake in the mud, you’ll crash”. And then I wondered why nothing ever stopped well.
This is a bit like that- not riding the bike centred then front works, but it doesn’t work well and it’s not how the bike is meant to be ridden. If you’re not pushing the front wheel you’re not riding the bike efficiently- it works, in the same way using a rear brake only works, but it’s not working well.

That’s what a few folks were trying to tell you a few pages back.
Oh well at least you’re beginning to understand now.

However, I wasn’t previously. I’m not denying there’s a technique I need to learn, I’ve never said that. Not even remotely.

However the point is, this is new and specific to think bike. “Yes that’s what LLS brings” yes I get that, bit that doesn’t mean I have to like it.

I don’t see why I need to change just because the bike is different, if that’s the case then I go to a non LLS later I need to change again.

Why not keep things more constant and not have an LLS bike and then there’s no changing of “oh you’re riding it wrong”

It’s not ‘wrong’ it’s just different, not everyone wants or likes different.

P.s. thanks to all. Even the ones I don’t seem to be bonding with, it’s all interesting, well, to me anyway.

Thing is you’re still riding it wrong even on an old school geo bike.
It’s just that a more modern bike has shown this up.
By all means go back but that’s not helping you progress.

but that’s not helping you progress

I’m trying fella, I’m trying. (No, not in that way. Well, maybe that way too)

I do get your point though

Keep at it and you’ll get the lightbulbs moment soon enough.
Going back to hanging of the back isn’t the answer to anything.

Lol where did I once say I was doing that? You’re making things up without ever even seeing me ride

I’ve never once said I don’t need to or cannot improve my technique, never

Best of luck dude.
Only advice I could give now is stop taking offence so easily
Seems you’ve gone back to thinking people are trying to insult you.

Well let’s be honest fella you’re not exactly being nice.

Most are, you’re not.

If you can’t see that, I think that says more about you than it does me.

It’d be nice if you don’t post any more in the thread as I’m honestly really tired of it