If everyone in Britain stuck solar panels on their roof….

How many power stations would we need then?

I see there’s some debate in parliment about power stations and I might send them a note.

If all government offices stuck solar pannels on include in that hospitals, prisons, army bases etc then drag in the local authorities it would add up to a fair acerage of leccy genertion.

It’s a no brainer, surely?

I know one thing for sure. If I put solar panels on my roof, the sun would never come out ever again

more than you seem to think

Factories would be a good bet, as they tend to have very large surface areas, and they also often use a lot of power themselves.

I did read somewhere that in the US where they build giant shopping malls and department stores as huge flat roofed single storey buildings in hot very sunny climates, some companies are putting solar on and getting all their leccy for free.

It’s the perfect real-estate for solar, it should be bloody mandatory.

Probably a more appropriate question is, is ‘green’ electricity generation possible? No fired or nuclear power stations at all.

All houses and offices, factories and things feed solar power into the grid, we establish biomass plants wholesale, all the sewage and green waste goes into these. Keep the wind and wave farms, keep the hydro power stuff.

What then? How short are we? A little bit, or a lot?

binners I told you, it’s never going to rain ever again in Lancashire. See?

http://m.yr.no/place/United_Kingdom/England/Lancashire/long.html

more than you seem to think

How many then?

If everyone in Britain stuck solar panels on their roof….
samuri – Member
How many power stations would we need then?

About the same amount. Otherwise when the sun goes behind a cloud (at least half the year) you still need to same amount of energy.

Now add batteries and you might have something.

Well not really because the panels still generate when the sun goes in.

However they don’t when it goes down.

Perhaps one of the most popular myths about the use of solar energy is that on days when the weather is stormy or there is not much sunshine, that anyone who relies solely on solar power will simply have to shut down operations and make do. Fortunately, this is not the case for several reasons.

http://www.greenlivinganswers.com/archives/179

About the same amount. Otherwise when the sun goes behind a cloud (at least half the year) you still need to same amount of energy.

Why post as if you know what you’re talking about when you really don’t? 😕

… we’d have to pay for them ourselves (fair enough) but rather than seeing our bills reduce the power companies would find some excuse for charging us to top up the grid and the government would tax us for being too self reliant.

Then the power companies would charge us some more to help build more infrastructure as we’d be in danger of overloading the grid and the government would tax us a bit more so they could subsidise the solar panel industry while also paying for panels on public buildings, those that can’t afford them, and MPs 5th homes.

And then once everyones pockets have been picked yet again they’d find another green initiative and the cycle would continue until everyones rooves had collapsed under the weight of expensive solar panels and our children couldn’t play in the garden as it would be full of windmills.

A good read for anyone who’s actually interesting in an objective look at the numbers (or a good guess at what they are at least…)

http://www.withouthotair.com/

Exactly the same amount as we need now. The grid would buy it’s reliable baseload from the power stations, the solar panels would occasionally and unpredictably chuck out a bit of wibbly extra power and that’d get dumped straight to waste heat.

Solar panels make sense where it’s very very sunny. We should be harvesting some of our non-potable water from our roofs, not solar.

About the same amount. Otherwise when the sun goes behind a cloud (at least half the year) you still need to same amount of energy.

Now add batteries and you might have something.

POSTED 11 MINUTES AGO # EDIT
molgrips – Member
Well not really because the panels still generate when the sun goes in.

Not sure if you have noticed but about 50% of the time the sun is behind the earth and it’s dark, I know the panels work when it’s cloudy but at night??

About the same amount. Otherwise when the sun goes behind a cloud (at least half the year) you still need to same amount of energy. Because peak load often occurs when its dark.

ftfy

Edit: slightly too late!

Probably a more appropriate question is, is ‘green’ electricity generation possible? No fired or nuclear power stations at all.

The book that gibber’s linked to +1

We should be harvesting some of our non-potable water from our roofs, not solar.

erm, harvest both?
put a gutter along the bottom of the panels and channel it to a water butt.

We’d still need the same number of power stations, especially in winter when its dark for 16 hours.

Oh yay all the renewables haters are here now, presenting their opinions as ‘facts’. 🙄

+1 to reading the link above btw

If it was a bit sunnier, and everybody could live with panels, what we’d have to do is build a whole lot of Dinorwic style storage. Batteries can’t be the soultion. I’m still not convinced on the lifespan of the panels or the environmental impact of their manufacture personally.

Not sure if you have noticed but about 50% of the time the sun is behind the earth and it’s dark, I know the panels work when it’s cloudy but at night??

Mike I said exactly that immediately below the line you quoted.

I would also challenge grum’s source on that – winter evenings would be chilly and dark if we all relied on solar.

How much energy does it take to manufacture a solar panel vs its projected energy generation over its life? Is it actually net positive?

sorry molegrips I was using you as a point. But when the sun goes down singletrack would shut down so it would at least make the evenings quieter….

I would also challenge grum’s source on that – winter evenings would be chilly and dark if we all relied on solar.

I never suggested relying entirely on solar though did I.

Do we have to have this straw man in every single thread about energy?

I don’t understand why solar has to either be the solution to all mans problems or a totally useless disgrace. Seems to be the STW way though.

I never suggested relying entirely on solar though did I.

Do we have to have this straw man in every single thread about energy?

It’s mostly the problem of using power supplies that are not under our control. They do not have a consistent output so you need something to back them up. So come 8pm on Christmas night how do we power the country?

Reduced consumption and stable base load generation coupled with renewables is the answer.

The answer to the OP’s question is about the same amount. It doesn’t mean they need to be running flat out but they need to be there.

I was going to post what grum said ^^^^^

However there is no point. Everyone is ready to jump up and down and say Photovoltaics, infrared hot water (hot water solar) onshore wind, offshore wind, tidal, wave, insert any form of renewable energy is useless. The only answer is coal and we may as well just deal with the rising cost of energy with no consideration for alternatives. Surely if we used all in some kind of ‘combination’ we could reduce our dependency on fossil fuels which are finite?

Maybe everyone who worked 10 miles or less than where they lived (if they work in an office or at another fixed location daily) could commute by bike as well while we’re at it; then perhaps the world would be a happier place fitter place?

I predict that the answer from the multiple oracles here on STW will be no – and why should we try to stop the Japanese whaling as well you big bunch of hippies. Or similar.

I have some on my garage roof. I live in Oxfordshire. In the winter I get paid £75 pm, in the summer months its been up to £150.

Cost me £8k to fit it.

On weekends we use it to power the washing machine, dishwasher etc for free. The income is greater than our electricity and gas costs per year.

Brilliant.

However there is no point. Everyone is ready to jump up and down and say Photovoltaics, infrared hot water (hot water solar) onshore wind, offshore wind, tidal, wave, insert any form of renewable energy is useless. The only answer is coal and we may as well just deal with the rising cost of energy with no consideration for alternatives. Surely if we used all in some kind of ‘combination’ we could reduce our dependency on fossil fuels which are finite?

True at no point did I said it wouldn’t reduce our dependency but it would not reduce the peak amount of energy required to power the country. High consumption industry works during the small hours of the morning using the excess power that is running to keep us in light during the evening.

The world population is growing, the energy use is increasing. We need drastic reduction or increase of production to go forward.

Most people are lazy and want to see some super fast return on the investment,so they can’t be Rsd making the effort.

The answer is more in educating about efficient use,rather than giving us more cheap energy.

Most people are lazy

Pretty much is the answer. Depressing really.

[edit]

The world population is growing, the energy use is increasing. We need drastic reduction or increase of production to go forward.

Also pretty depressing. [/edit]

It is,the answers are all out there if more people would make an effort.

What would happen? We’d have shiney rooves, but unreliable supplies. Especially at night.

If solar energy was that good we wouldn’t need subsidies for it. It would’ve happened already.

We’d have shiney rooves, but unreliable supplies.

It’s part of the plan not the whole plan 🙄

However they don’t when it goes down.

That’s when we switch to our Luna Panels.

Solar PV + some of those gas cooling and liquification batteries would mean that we could still be toasty in the dark winter nights.

If solar energy was that good we wouldn’t need subsidies for it. It would’ve happened already.

Just like how nuclear didn’t require any public investment you mean?

It is,the answers are all out there if more people would make an effort.

Alas it’s not really the solution to say that answers are out there if we made more effort.
What we have to remember is that we have Human Beings V1.0, not V2.0 with added niceness and enhanced moral convictions, and as such solutions need to be based on what Humans will do, rather than what we’d wish they’d do.
I guess it might have depressed me once, but we are what we are, and wishing we were something else isn’t really that productive.

The Network in Utopia TV series understood this 🙂

Just like nuclear. That should never have been given, and still being given, public subsidies.

Just like how nuclear didn’t require any public investment you mean?

Did you hear that programme on R4 last week about the mox treatment plant in Sellafield? I’m surprised how little fuss has been made about that.