For peace of mind for a respiratory condition, I want to get the 120 year old house tested, mainly for mould spores.
How is that tested?
I have a room measuring thing for temp & moidtute/humidity.
Rooms at the moment are around
60 – 63%, what’s the recommended level?
I have got a dehumidifier which I can use to bring that down if that’s too high.

I’d be very interested to hear if anyone has info on spore testing.

Many thanks.

40 to 60% RH is considered optimal.

as Scienceofficer has said between 40-60% is the ideal as it support human comfort and stops propagation of environmental fungi. there are no UK limits for spores in domestic or industrial settings and this time of year is the main period for spores form the classic storage fungi, such as aspergillus, Cladosporium, penicillium etc…

usual rule of thumb when sampling for spores during indoor air quality work is to take external refence air samples first and then internal samples. If the internal samples are significantly higher than external, or if there are species unique to the building that are not detected during the external sample, then its a indicator that you have an internal reservoir of growth somewhere.

the main thing being is that not all fungi and moulds sporulate and they need a nutrient source and the correct moisture conditions for growth, so if you have lots of condensation, water leaks, and so on then you may see growth occur. Fix the route cause and the issue stops.

spore testing itself can be a bit of rogues market, as we’ve seen companies find all sort of “issues” and charge for remedial work, when the house in question was surrounded by trees and a mature garden and the source of the spores was just environmental coming in though doors and open windows rather than any internal issues and the home owner would be exposed to many millions more spores just sitting outside having a cuppa

spore testing itself can be a bit of rogues market,

Yes, without baselining the environment, how would you know what an elevated level is?

For peace of mind for a respiratory condition, I want to get the 120 year old house tested, mainly for mould spores.

Unless there are areas of water staining or evidence of water ingress, in all honesty I’d be more concerned about more modern builds, as older properties were designed to have good airflow in them. Get a fairly recent house with little airflow in it and you can increase the RH% significantly just through the moisture from human respiration, then add cooking, drying out washing, poorly extracted showers and it can be an issue.

spore testing itself can be a bit of rogues market, as we’ve seen companies find all sort of “issues” and charge for remedial work, when the house in question was surrounded by trees and a mature garden and the source of the spores was just environmental coming in though doors and open windows rather than any internal issues and the home owner would be exposed to many millions more spores just sitting outside having a cuppa

Yes, without baselining the environment, how would you know what an elevated level is?

On one level it doesn’t matter does it if its making you ill or even killing you?
Depending which spores simply knowing they are there might be a first step?

It’s just as important to sample at the right times as well.

In case of remediation it does matter however its sometimes just not economically possible.

On one level it doesn’t matter does it if its making you ill or even killing you?

you cant stop human exposure to spores, we are literally all breathing in millions of spores every week, from the environment around us. Unless you are immunocompromised, have pre-existing areas of lung scaring or are sensitive to spores (similar to hayfever) then its not really a massive problem.

Certain species are opportunistic pathogens and some just happen to have mycotoxins that can effect humans by accident, but in reality if you are a outdoorsy person then pretty much whatever is in your home will be significantly less then what you are exposed to every time you go for pedal in the woods.

I have got a dehumidifier which I can use to bring that down if that’s too high.

that’s not the best way to do it, it’s a combination of moisture and lack of airflow/movement

have a look at positive pressure ventilation systems

you cant stop human exposure to spores, we are literally all breathing in millions of spores every week, from the environment around us. Unless you are immunocompromised, have pre-existing areas of lung scaring or are sensitive to spores (similar to hayfever) then its not really a massive problem.

That depends which fungal spores someone is exposed to and also what you call a massive problem.

To piggy back off a different thread it’s like saying eating random mushrooms isn’t really a massive problem.
Only a few are REALLY toxic .. a few might have you seeing pink elephants or shitting rusty water … lots are non toxic buy not edible… so you won’t chew them anyway…

Or take bacteria… obviously we have loads of symbiotic bacteria but inhaling anthrax spores is often more than an inconvenience.

Microbiology Spectrum (July 2017), estimates the number is between 2.2 and 3.8 million.
(https://www.researchgate.net/publication/318757663_Fungal_Diversity_Revisited_22_to_38_Million_Species)

Mycologists don’t currently agree on how many fungi there might be but only about 120,000 of them have been described so far and many so we still have no idea what the vast majority of fungus do and where they affect human health or not. Back to mushrooms as an example, there are many species that are very toxic that are closely related to edible mushrooms…

There are plenty of ways mycotoxins can affect Animalia.

One of the most studies being Ophiocordyceps unilateralis – this illustrates just how sophisticated fungi are.
In this case there is evolutionary advantage to creating the “zombie ant”… but there is no reason to think many other fungi don’t have weird and wonderful effects on mammalian brains.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1566211/
There is a pretty extensive list of references in this…

Thanks for replies. Lots to take in…
I’ll get some more windows opened and try the dehumidifier later as a starting point.

Not sure about getting someone in to do spore testing now having read the above 🤔

have a look at positive pressure ventilation systems

this is what I have in my 130yr old house. Damp & mould problems went away within a week or so of installing.

@stevextc bacteria and fungi are very different beasties and the human immunological response is also different, so adding that into the mix is just muddying the water and whataboutery really.

yes there are some awesome fungi out there and its a truly amazing and indepth genera, but in a UK domestic or even industrial composting, clinical waste treatment or sewage treatment process we don’t get very exotic fungal species. (30 years of testing as part of my job across a range of industries and something fun would have appeared) We have worked on a few cases of invasive aspergillosis in the composting industry where the affected individuals on one instance had TB scarring of the lungs and in other instances where patients receiving Chemo downwind of a poorly controlled wind row composting process

also seen cases where people are allergic to penicillin antibiotics who don’t react well to penicillium spores in high respiratory loads, but those folks usually already know when to avoid piles of leaf litter, walks in the woods and so on. Its one on the things companies can look for as part the the pre-employment Occ health screening for work in the composting industry for example.

Bacteria are much more fun/interesting to work with as are endotoxins

tazzymtb

@stevextc bacteria and fungi are very different beasties and the human immunological response is also different, so adding that into the mix is just muddying the water and whataboutery really.
Bacteria are much more fun/interesting to work with as are endotoxins

They are most definitely very different, fungi are much more advanced in a sort of “alien” (non anthropomorphic) way… we just don’t understand them very well and we don’t pay attention to most.

yes there are some awesome fungi out there and its a truly amazing and indepth genera

Most massive living organism on earth and at least 2500 yrs old … but from a non anthropomorphic intelligence perspective it also directly controls a huge food supply telling the trees when they can produce seeds, grow and supplying minerals.

I guess my point is if you were a tree being told when you can breed, grow etc. might not be all that attractive ..(just bear with that)
Many species also have behaviour modifying capabilities… be that in animals or plants (or potentially other fungi)

also seen cases where people are allergic to penicillin antibiotics who don’t react well to penicillium spores in high respiratory loads

We have worked on a few cases of invasive aspergillosis in the composting industry where the affected individuals on one instance had TB scarring of the lungs and in other instances where patients receiving Chemo downwind of a poorly controlled wind row composting process

This is sort of working backwards though?
In these cases there were patients with known conditions and it’s matching the condition to a trigger.

Many fungi have developed cross species behaviour modifications…. the chemical signals they use to control one species of tree for example affect another species in a similar way or perhaps a different way.
To extend this what effect would Ophiocordyceps unilateralis on other species of ant or termites?
It seems VERY unlikely the effect is ZERO…. they might just die or whatever but we don’t notice it because it’s not so spectacular as the zombie ant effect.

To draw an analogy with bacteria (since you’re interested in them) it’s like TTX / Tarichatoxin producing bacteria that for example gets consumed by a Puffer Fish .. but then gets used as a recreational drug by mammals such as Dolphins. I’m not judging .. 😉 but who’s to say Dolphins who use TTX don’t get other psychological effects? (Or on probability I’d guess the likelihood is they do get other effects if we ever understood dolphins enough to give them a mental health check)

Many fungi (well many out of millions) seem to have a predisposition for creating chemicals that have psychological effects in addition to rather more obvious physical ones. With so many millions of species there seems a good chance that quite a few of them will affect humans in ways we haven’t yet even thought of but are not so obvious as the ones you mention.

I’d be more concerned about more modern builds, as older properties were designed to have good airflow in them.

Thats how they’re designed but theres been 120 years for every Tom, Dick and Barry Bucknell to block a lot of the that ventilation in the name of progress. What we’re referring to as ‘ventilation’ in this day in age is what we used to call ‘drafts’ and home owners tended to try and block up ventilation wherever they could. So really the thing to check rather than the presence of spores is that the changes that will have been made over the years (insulation, blocking up chimneys, double glazing etc) has all been done in a way that sympathetic to the way the house was designed to function. – And that everything thats designed for ventilation actually ventilates.

I just popped the vent off the sealed up chimney in a house I’ve just bought for decoration  – It had been done properly to start with – but  the vent had been painted so many times since it was complete air tight – meanwhile behind it decades of dust in the chimney had settled and blocked the back of the vent anyway. So check all the vents you see around the house actually are vents – if theres a vent visible on the outside check theres something corresponding on the inside and it hasn’t been papered or plastered over. Check air bricks at ground level haven’t been blocked as soil levels have risen in the garden and that they’re not full of crud and so on.

Can you tell me more about the positive ventilation (I get the principle – I work on equipment stuff that has it) – but how is it installed in the house? And the outlet ? The fireplace ??

(Asking a someone with a 170 YO stone house)

PV units usually pull the air in through a filter in the loft then push it into the landing area upstairs or hallway in a single story house. The clean air is then pushed through the house and all the rooms forcing the air to be expelled out of the house via the air gaps and trickle vents on the windows. You leave the windows shut. I fitted one to a friend’s house but don’t have any long term experience of it.

Ventilate and do the obvious things, lids on pans, wipe shower down etc.
Set 40-45% humidity as a goal.
If you test for spores and they are present, you’ll just need to do all this stuff anyway.
It isn’t complicated.

Hiya @Granny_ring

I have a house built around 1780 all stone, super thick walls. The humidity is best solved by a dehumidifier and considering the recent rendering pointing of the house, if it has been done. We had problems with damp, till I re-pointed many sections with lime mortar and removed the Portland cement that does a very good job trapping moisture in and damaging the stonework as it reacts with the lime mortar, that is till there and the stonework. We reduced the humidity by 10% just by doing this. We still use a dehumidifier because the house is pretty well sealed, when the windows are closed but we do always have one or two open for airflow.

BR
JeZ

Cheers again for info.

@twinw4ll will message you.