Stupid arse driver overtook me @ 18 secs on the clip. It was just outside a school too and was a fast unexpected pass.. I was doing about 15-18mph Ive only really started riding road this year and have had a few scary passes like this (luckily the car coming the other way slowed down on this occasion). Should i be riding further out more of the time ??
Is this the sort of driving that should get reported?

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42f7Y4lsXiA&feature=youtube_gdata[/video]

Edit.. its not quite as bad looking at it now but felt much closer at the time. I think i was kind of shook up from earlier in the day when a 4×4 tried to overtake me, came alongside and then had to slam his brakes on to avoid a head on collision with a car the other way.

Yeah, that’s a dickhead manoeuvre alright. I’ve seen worse, mind. Save yourself the time and hassle.

I tend to ride “proper prime” (middle of the lane) on 20/30mph roads unless it’s safe for me to move over to allow traffic to pass. On faster roads (which tend to be wider) I tend to ride a little inward from prime.

Seems par for the course around my way….riding further out may just cause more irritation for drivers behind and lead to closer overtakes?

As much as we all like to think we’re whizzing along like the TdF peleton during our road rides the reality is that we are slow moving road users compared to motorised traffic with most sunny sunday cyclists coming down to single figure climbing speeds when the road heads upwards….quite why you’d then want to sit out on the crown of the road holding everybody up is beyond me…at least when tractors, combines etc do this most of the time they pull in once the queue of traffic behind them builds up…..

….i’d like to think your average cyclist would do the same but most that i know would moan that pulling over would spoil their average speed for the ride or they’d come over all high and mighty as us cyclists are prone to do and ask why they should pull over?….state they’ve got as much right to be on the road as anybody else etc etc and just enjoy being a rolling roadblock….as sadly plenty around here seem to enjoy doing.

I think the problem with sitting prime as you describe it, it’s going to antagonise some drivers to make even sillier overtakes and not give you the space. I agree you don’t want to be in the gutter too much debris in that area. You have to realise some of them no matter how you ride don’t believe you should be there due to this odd view that a car has precedence, some of which I lay squarely at the top gear audience and others of their ilk. Unfortunately you are probably never going to educate them, just get into an argument which they will believe they are in the right and not actually listen to any reasoned argument.

If it’s not safe to be overtaken (E.g. the road is too narrow to leave ‘enough space as if you were overtaking a car’ as per highway code or there are traffic islands / oncoming traffic) then I definitely go out to the middle of the road. Obviously I’m taking the decision out of the hands of the motorist, which may irritate some drivers. But IME most people don’t really think about when is an appropriate time to pass – They just cruise on by, probably listening to Radio 2. If I can foresee a problem / potential accident involving my squishy body and a car then I will absolutely dictate the timing of any overtaking. Of course, at the earliest possible safe moment I will get back over to allow cars to pass.

I reckon timid cyclists are at much greater risk than those who have confidence to do this sort of thing.

Bad connection so can’t see your vid.

I’m pretty assertive at taking up the road when it’s not safe to overtake but occasionally you’ll meet someone who’s gonna do it anyway, tbh it maybe happens just 2/3 times a year out of 10k travelled on a bike. To put that in perspective I do maybe 1k in the car but a few weeks ago I saw a guy in merc day van jump two sets of lights by driving into oncoming traffic on the wrong side of the road just to beat a 100m queue.

There’s lots of people who’ll take what they want and some of them know the roads are un policed.

I ride a lot of lanes and B roads and am normally polite and considerate to other road users. Its the close overtakes which leave no room for error that annoy me. Its more of a thread about where do people think they should be riding to help minimise thoughtless driving. Maybe im just not experienced enough yet to spot all the potential opportunities i might create / allow by my own road position…

Speed difference between bike and other traffic is an important consideration in whether to stay in prime. On suburban (20/30mph) roads occupying the middle of the lane isn’t usually a problem and allows you to see and be seen, communicate with other road users and, if needs be, control situations. Things get different on faster roads.

On the faster roads you seem to ride I’d generally be inward of prime but not less than around 60cm from the kerb. At tricky points, though, I’d look to move out to prime. Most drivers will pass with care and you won’t change the behaviour of idiots whatever you do.

[Cloud nine- I think that’s a different issue, you have close drivers who don’t know any better, which is a shortfall of the licensing process and all too frequently those who do it on purpose because they read the popular press or come from prejudice rich backgrounds, that’s a punishment pass and a little annoying until you meet them at the next set of lights and see what a poor excuse for a human they usually are.

Tbh on the bigger roads I’m where I need to be to hit the next apex, if there s line down the middle they’ve got all the room they need whatever I’m doing.

I just make it up as I go along tbh. What felt right yesterday might not feel right today. On my commute, the trend seems to be for people to overtake in the same position regardless of my road position, so I’ve reluctantly settled on a far-left-of-primary position for most of it as it seems to recover more space.

But there’s one section where I boss the entire lane because it just attracts endless stupid overtakes- it’s completely blind but not that obviously so understandably people screw it up. But even then it’s a bit of swings and roundabouts because people still try and pass- I reckon some think “what’s this cyclist doing in the middle of the road, must pass instantly!”. So I’m never sure if it’s creating a small risk of a really dangerous situation, or what. But if I’m going to get killed on the road I’d bet 10p that’s where it’ll happen.

I think if you take an optimal prime position, it will transform your experience. Although, the video is a bit deceptive, can you something something autobots.

P.S; Robots in disguise.

With the current ‘I pay road tax so I’m allowed to drive how I like’ culture, my bitter experience is you can’t fully prevent close overtakes. 3 times in a month I’ve been in primary (either about to turn right, overtaking other cyclists or riding through repeated pinch points) and been tailgated/run off the road… I have to say this is a spectacularly bad run and most drivers do respect primary.

If you want to get the official line, go to your local authority website and sign up for the free Bikeability training if you want to understand best practice (and have your own riding style analysed). Also, buy Cyclecraft by John Franklin. British Cycling also has something to say

BC link

This is an excellent discussion on the matter which comes out 100% in favour of riding primary – including the guy from Institute of Advanced Motoring.

Guardian article here

I’ve sort of had my penny’s worth on this thread but perhaps worth mentioning, I do actually find most drivers very considerate, even too much so when you just wish they’d get on with it a get past.

Broke a gear cable last night and did the last 20 in 53-12 the last thin I wanted was cars waiting for me to get over the next hill!

I don’t think riding further out in the lane would have made much difference in the case in the video. The driver appears to give plenty of space in so much that it looks like all the wheels of their vehicle cross the center-line of the road.
They’re just driving too fast.

15-18mph on the flat? Pedal harder, Tubs, you’re holding up the World… 😉

I don’t like this prime position rubbish. You are forcing drivers out across the road or they are stuck behind you for miles. I’d rather let them pass safely.

I obviously don’t put myself down grates or in any other danger, but I feel that it is safer for everyone concerned.

It also saves all this anti-cyclist attitude that seems to be becoming prevalent

15-18mph on the flat?

I was actually sat up having a drink at the time so only had one hand on the bars too

it’s going to antagonise some drivers to make even sillier overtakes and not give you the space.

Victim blaming IMHO
Then you need to get out even further so they have to put the entire vehicle on the wrong side of the road to overtake you

If they get antagonised by being forced to drive in a manner that keeps me safe then , tbh , that is their problem. There are places where it is just not safe to overtake me and they need to deal with this.

When they beep me I think Job done as i stopped them endangering me

Its shame we need to drive like this but if folk wont respect us we have to make them.

Trolling, surely…

Not at all { why not be constructive?] If it is safe to pass I will happily pull over and allow them room, if it is not safe to pass then I will remove that option from them as it is the safest for me. If this antagonises them then I can live with it tbh.

The kind of person who gets annoyed by prime [ when it is done for safety rather than all the time] is the kind of person who hates cyclists, does not respect other road users and is impatient. Only not being there will please them not how you ride.

YMMV but there were perhaps 6 places of about 1/4- 1/2 mile [ total] on my commute of 15 miles where I would prevent overtaking for my own safety.

Had this quite regularly on my recent JogLe. It’s sad really, as the vast majority of drivers are respectful, and we stop regularly to let cars past knowing what ti’s like to be stuck behind a slower moving vehicle.

On a road like that I’d ride about a comfortable ft away from the edge. To avoid dangerous overtakes you should be aware of other road users. You can hear cars coming up behind, you can see cars coming towards you and we all know what drivers will try. By keeping only a little further out you give yourself space to move across, so you are making a safe distance between the car that does attempt the pass. It’s not what we should have to be doing, but it means I can ride happy without being in the gutter and in a position to make myself safe should some idiot charge through like in the vid.

duntstick – Member

I don’t like this prime position rubbish. You are forcing drivers out across the road or they are stuck behind you for miles. I’d rather let them pass safely.

The point of primary positioning is to stop people passing unsafely- they can still pass safely. But squeezing past in your lane isn’t safe.

I make sure I position myself fairly assertively, though I have to say, from that camera angle I couldn’t really tell how close the overtake was. It maybe wasn’t within the letter of the Highway Code but I’ve seen worse to get upset about.

I don’t like this prime position rubbish. You are forcing drivers out across the road or they are stuck behind you for miles. I’d rather let them pass safely.

I obviously don’t put myself down grates or in any other danger, but I feel that it is safer for everyone concerned.

It also saves all this anti-cyclist attitude that seems to be becoming prevalent

pls read the links I posted above.
ALL the official bodies responsible for providing cycling lessons (Bikeability/Local Authority, BC, John Franklin) explain the very good reasons why Primary position is the recommended way to ride in many cases.

Don’t forget if you tuck in, you can encourage a driver to overtake straight into a head-on collision (2x cars at 30mph and you’re talking 60mph closing speed and very possibly death)

I don’t use a camera so don’t know first hand, but I get the impression the closeness of the pass often doesn’t come across well on video.
Anyway, not sure I’d have done much different there. Like Northwind I think you have to take each situation on it’s own merits, and in reality riding round in a really assertive prime position at absolutely all times just isn’t practical IMO.
Roads like the one in the video where there’s a really significant speed difference are a good example- I just wouldn’t want to be too far out towards the middle with people like that around.
Also there will always be someone who will do something daft- your ability to influence what people do only goes so far.

* Pedant alert*

It’s primary not ‘prime’

Apart from that I would agree with Northwind. The puropse of Primary is to prevent an overtake. If they can’t overtake safely you just have to prevent them trying. There are degrees of how far out ‘secondary’ is, but essentially I’d classify it as a position which enables an overtake. The point is, if they can overtake you ok, then you shouldn’t be in Primary: In a sense it isn’t a difficult decision. It doesn’t matter how fast the road is, if they can’t get by safely, then you have to take control.

It doesn’t matter how fast the road is, if they can’t get by safely, then you have to take control.

Agree in principle, but there are plenty of places I wouldn’t be happy doing it and I’d feel quite vulnerable.

there will always be someone who will do something daft- your ability to influence what people do only goes so far.

true but they have to go completely on to the wrong side of the road to overtake – which tends to make them think and you have metres of road to escape into if needed.

If they can squeeze past they will if they cannot they wont even try [ generally bit no system is foolproof]

Don’t forget if you tuck in, you can encourage a driver to overtake straight into a head-on collision (2x cars at 30mph and you’re talking 60mph closing speed and very possibly death)

Nice one, best advice I’ve seen, will give this a go next time.