How on earth do folks get up hardknott pass. Just how difficult is it?

I’ve not been up hard knott pass, but how does it compare to winnats pass in Castleton. I’ve never ridden it, but it looks tough.

but how does it compare to winnats pass in Castleton

It is harder

It is harder

Yep. Winnats gets proper steep for a short section at the top, but it’s much shorter. It’s all subjective, depends on your strengths and weaknesses and preferences and personal history with a particular climb as well. I quite like Hardknot. Rationally I know that Honister is easier, but I just properly dislike it from the Borrowdale side. It’s just nasty and steep and just a little bit steep for a little bit too long in a way you don’t quite expect.

Having said that this might be because I thought that the first big climb out of Ashburton was Dartmeet, only to be unpleasantly surprised a few minutes later.

If this was from the Dartmoor demon you posted about the other day, you didn’t do dartmeet. Your probably thinking about Holne chase and the climb out of newbridge up to poundsgate.

To be honest though, the hardest climb for me on the FW was cold fell. The wheels nearly fell off there for me.

Mainly because I’d convinced myself the feed station was before it.

Garry_Lager

…No idea how the old-timey roadmen got up it on their tiny gears – I think that is a question of exceptional power to weight pushing a 21 block up there or whatever they used to use.

Pre-war, either fixed, singlespeed, or for the softies, a 3 speed Sturmey-Archer hubgear. :)

Your probably thinking about Holne chase and the climb out of newbridge up to poundsgate.

Oops. First time on a road bike in Devon, though I grew up mountain biking on Dartmoor.

I watched a guy climb it a couple of years ago & I thought he must be on an E road bike but he wasn’t, he literally raced up. He was obviously a fit git.

softies, a 3 speed Sturmey-Archer hubgear

I thought all men were men then, pay, big girls blouses 🤣🤣🤣

I watched a guy climb it a couple of years ago & I thought he must be on an E road bike but he wasn’t, he literally raced up

Always impressed with this video. The way he attacks the climb and also the in-car comments.

Rob Jebb? Mind, I’d get up there on a penny farthing if being hunted down by a Herbalife rep

Got up it (just) on 36/28. Had the delights of Wrynose, the struggle and great Dunn fell after this 😳

You’re on your big ring! Admit it, did you get dropped off at the top for the picture? :)

Moved it over for the decent 😉 Was a big day out that. 202miles with 18k of climbing. My arse has never forgiven me 😆

That video..^ around 7.20 in..dear Lord that looks brutally steep!

I have a confession. My rear wheel lost traction and I dabbed at that point around 7.20 in. I must go back and have another go. I may even go and do some hill reps on it like @twinklydave did a few years ago ;-)

Did it last year on the Fred for the first time, in very good conditions. Made sure I left a bit in the tank for it, and it wasn’t too bad. As people have said, soft pedal for the majority and then put the effort in on the steep corners.

I found some of the climbs on the Ronde Van Calderdale, albeit shorter, more challenging.

As people have said, soft pedal for the majority and then put the effort in on the steep corners

This seems sensible but how the hell do you soft pedal up a 20% gradient without an mtb cassette. Found This video

He’s doing about 350 watts at 40 rpm. If he turned the cranks any slower hed surely fall over!! Can’t believe folks can get up that with 100 hard miles in the legs. If I ever attempt it I’ll be doing it at start of ride for sure.

Yes, 34 compact and 32 cassette all the way. Essential to avoid being in the red too much on the climbs.

once did it on a zxr750rr motorbike, it took a couple of goes to get round some of the tighter corners near the top, having to actually stop and roll the bike backwards to get round, the cattle grid at the bottom is tricky on a mountain bike never mind a road bike, I have maximum respect for anyone doing “the Fred” its a very underestimated challenge imho.

I must confess I’ve done all the big passes in the Lakes apart from Hardknott and Wrynose. I did Kirkstone from the north today and bugger me, that was must harder than either of the southern options. How does Hardnott compare to Kirkstone pass from Ullswater?

How does Hardnott compare to Kirkstone pass from Ullswater?

It’s harder

Need a new cassette then I think. 36×28 isn’t low enough for me.

I have been over it once on my old BSA with pillion and full luggage. NO problems bar it was total gridlock with cars for about 5 miles each side – and I mean total . NO cars could get thru at all. they must have been there for hours

I was once in a VW Polo coming from Eskdale. Four of us in it. Driver was a wimp of the first order. At the first tight hairpin he stopped then free wheeled back down the hill. He made the three of us get out and walk because he didn’t think the car would make it with four adults in. It was raining and his wife was 6 months preggie, but out we had to get and walk to the top.

Haven’t seen him since!

It’s important to not confuse % and degrees! A 30% climb is (relatively) easy, a 30 degree one, pretty much impossible!

(of course on an MTB, where you have the big rings at the back rather than on the front, it’s a bit different. My roadie mates are always impressed when i tell them my MTB runs a 50 tooth ring because they are thinking i’ve got that large ring fitted to the cranks….. ;-)

Need a new cassette then I think. 36×28 isn’t low enough for me.

Gearing is key. If Froome runs a 32 cassette in the mountains then how on earth would an average recreation cyclist think 28 would be enough for big hills?

So many people are probably beaten by poor gearing choice rather than their ability to do it especially at the tail end of the FW.

how on earth would an average recreation cyclist think 28 would be enough for big hills?

..because he might have 4 or 5 high and much longer passes to do on that day, 2 weeks into a Grand Tour? I’ve done 6k miles over most stuff in the Lakes and Forest of Bowland on that set up so I suppose you the question is whether it would be worth someone buying a new cassette (and possibly derailleur) to do one particular climb. They didn’t have much choice before compact chainsets.

Did it a few years ago on a compact and 34t cassette. Tough climb and was chuffed to make it up (fifty, fat, unfit).
Rode a loop from Torver, Broughton, Ulpha, Birker Fell(?), Hardknott, Wrynose, Coniston, Torver.

I find this a weird conversation on an MTB forum. Compared to the classic difficult off road climbs Hardnott is a whole load of nothing. It’s hard work and goes on for ages, but this idea that it’s borderline whether you’ll manage it or not is just weird. It’s a road, get in the right gear and cycle up it. Job done.

And as for all this macho “I did it on a forty six sixteen blahblahblah. Who cares if you did it on a badly chosen setup…. similar sort of crap that skiers used to come up with about ski length.

username checks out

Is it only ridable by cat 1/2 quality riders

Definitely not. You want to be reasonably fit and preferably not carrying too much weight, but it’s do-able. It’s a walking pace climb. Stand on the pedals and your bike inches forwards. Bit of power required on the steepest bits, but it’s not a constant gradient by any means, so that means some short bursts between a pretty moderate effort. Leave your ego at home and grind it out.

^good advice

And as for all this macho “I did it on a forty six sixteen blahblahblah. Who cares if you did it on a badly chosen setup…. similar sort of crap that skiers used to come up with about ski length.

Totally. I stopped and changed to my 50 tooth MTB cassette at the bottom .

Oh no wait -rather than microanalysing my ride and changing out cassette for one single climb. I run what i brung.

To be honest though, the hardest climb for me on the FW was cold fell. The wheels nearly fell off there for me.

Mainly because I’d convinced myself the feed station was before it.

Cold Fell is horrendous. It’s not a “named” climb so no-one expects it, they’re all mentally shitting themselves about Hardknott & Wrynose. Cold Fell though comes at that mental low point in a big ride, around the 70-ish mile mark when you know you’ve still got 40 miles to go and 2 massive climbs. It’s also usually right into the wind and it’s incredibly exposed.

Hardknott just has this “reputation” about it – yes it’s a tough climb and it’s beyond what most cyclists would ever have access to but it’s far from impossible. Cycle tourists have been getting over it for decades well before the invention of compact chainsets, power meters, heart rate monitors and disc brakes.

Fair enough, it’s not exactly on the weekend club run list, it’s one of those climbs that most cyclists would only ever do maybe 3 or 4 times in a decade! And that means people remember it with rose-tinted specs and a sense of the “wow, it was epic” mentality which perpetuates the reputation.

Cold Fell is horrendous. It’s not a “named” climb so no-one expects it, they’re all mentally shitting themselves about Hardknott & Wrynose. Cold Fell though comes at that mental low point in a big ride, around the 70-ish mile mark when you know you’ve still got 40 miles to go and 2 massive climbs. It’s also usually right into the wind and it’s incredibly exposed.

Yup. Even with proper low gears, cold fell fully sucked.

Anyone tried it with a grade 2 soleus tear.

Did mine on Friday and got the Fred this Sunday. Should be fun, I can hardly walk at the moment, never mind square dance up Hardknott.

It’s worth having a look at Simon Warren’s 100 climbs and another 100 climbs books/website for a comparison but comparing long steady climbs with short steep ramps is always going to be difficult. He’s written a PDF for the Fred Whitton’s climbs – https://www.fredwhittonchallenge.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Fred-Whitton-Challenge-Route-Guide.pdf, no surprise that Hardknott is the hardest.

There’s a lot of “unnamed” climbing on the FW, the course notes give 3900 metres of ascent but add up the ascent from the above PDF and you get 1881 metres for the main, named, climbs.

And as for all this macho “I did it on a forty six sixteen blahblahblah. Who cares if you did it on a badly chosen setup…. similar sort of crap that skiers used to come up with about ski length.

I think people who mentioned gearing, in my case anyway, were actually just making the point that a perfectly average rider with normal road gears – a compact anyway – can ride up the thing. The machismo seems to be mostly in your head. Just saying.

When the biggest real climbs I’ve done are the cat3 up Bell Hill (just north of Petersfield) and the cat3 from Butser Ancient Farm to Butser summit, trying to visualise the effort to get up something like Hardknott is beyond me at the mo.

Dell Rd and Bitterne Way both hit ~20%, but they are very short inclines that can be ascended comfortably in under 2mins, just like Speltham Hill in Hambledon and Lynch Lane in Warnford.

I’m hoping to tackle Bwlch Y Groes from the south this year and average 300W+, but my FTP has taken a massive setback after a lurgy stopped me power training for almost two months, doing ~260W up the Zwift Innsbrook reverse KOM earlier nearly killed me.