Personally I would never try them again but maybe they improved them since the Mono Minis. The other brakes at the time were loads better. Never had a single issue with my Shimano XT- XTR brakes. There the older model ones.

My Moto V2s are the best brakes I’ve used, bar none. In the Alps I’ve tries Shimano, Hayes, Avid…the best by a long way were the Hopes. Shimano were OK (and cheaper), but I’m prepared to pay the extra. Hayes were on/off but very powerful, and fade-free. The Avid Juicy 5s and 7s were just terrible, and overheated (same rider, same trails, same bike) in a way that non of the others did.

Plus Hope stuff is easily fixed when I break it (crashes happen!) and are made by burly Northern blokes with swarf in their fingers.

Works for me.

Yes, floating rotors are fine with x2. I prefer non float saw tooth though. Seeing the nightmares folk were having changing worn out pads on the kielder 100, I’m happy with Hope – 3 sets at the mo.
Good modulation and I can lock wheels at will – more ‘power’ needed?

We have a quiver of five Dandyhorses, three sporting Hope’s, 2 x M4 f+R, 1 x Mono Mini f+r. The other two have Avid and Shimano.

The Hopes are quite old, first appearing on a Marin in 1998 i think and have been transferred to all my bikes up to now. The set up I have settled on is:

Phenolic pistons (think these are standard now), swapped from the old metal ones
Dot 5.1 synthetic fluid and Goodridge lines (the thin and flexy ones)
Sintered pads
Floating 203, 180, 160 front rotors, 2 x 160 and 140 rear.

I am nearly 100kg and have no problems with them at all.

These brakes do UK, Alpine and beyond, simple to bleed and have been very reliable too. A bonus when away from bleed kits, syringes and other stuff. I can strip and replace every seal and component too. Cap off, care with the top rubber seal, top up and go. They even worked with Citroen suspension fluid in them on a Moroccan trip. Pads out without the wheel off is a bonus.

I think any brake can be poor if its not set up well.

The Avids and Shimanos work but feel more on/off though they don’t get ridden as hard as the Hopes.

Its what you like at the end of the day. Its less about bling for me, these just work and its not about me being “lucky” either. Each will have their supporters, these do for me….

Hope have great back up, service and spares, customer support, great company etc…

Untrue. I had hideous issues with two sets of Mono M4s years ago and the customer service was crap in the extreme! The LBS ended up swapping them for Hayes brakes as we were getting nowhere with the muppets at Hope

But unfortunately their performance is not on par with many (also much cheaper) brake manufacturers…

True.

They’re not great brakes but they do have a loyal UK following. I’d never have them on a bike again though.

This +1. Poor kit, poor customer service.

Hope make good looking brakes, but they are under power, expensive and atleast in uk conditions need bled every five minutes, if you want good brakes stick with avid or formula’s, hayes are also good but very on off, but reliable and cheap (most of them) since you are only saying how they look they do look the doggies do da’s.
Oh forgot about shimano xt brakes, couple of my mates say they are good but that’s still short ish term use, 6 month approx.

Do Hopes develop more power when subject to a higher workload?

I ask because I’m 16st and they are pretty good for me (X2s with 160s on the rigid singlespeed and Tech M4s with 203s on the Alpine 160).

It seems the other guys who liked them (and gave aweight) are of the more generous persuasion.

Also that good modulation can make it easier to drag your brakes when you think your just covering them – a great way to toast brake pads and boil fluid, but ultimately user error.

Hopes, my Hopes at least, also work with minimal maintenance. Unlike the Avids I am slowly phasing off my bikes. Amongst the guys I ride with Avids are a synonym for stuck pistons, pads that don’t want to change and levers that work fine one minute and go to the bars the next.

+1 for stuck pistons with Avids.

I did have a stuck piston with one of my M4s (the only time it’s happened in eight years of owning Hope kit) but fixing it was an absolute doddle. The problem hasn’t reoccurred.

I still find them lacking outright stopping power though. I’m not heavy (a shade under 13st) and I clean the rotors and pads regularly. TBH, the older set have Goodridge hoses fitted and feel slightly more wooden but seem to have more stopping power.

I do like them a lot, but I’m still surprised at just how much stopping power my Hayes/Avids have at their disposal with a smaller rotor size.

This sounds like one of those threads where everyone moans about Orange Fives.

Why do we always slate UK achievers/products?

On my third set of Hopes. X2 with Tech levers and I really rate them.

Tested three Scotts over the weekend. Two with Avids and one with Shimano XT brakes.

The XT were very good but I thought lacked the feel that I get with the Hopes. They felt very much on or off. The Avids were okay…they worked.

At the weekend I fitted Gold Jagwire hoses to my X2’s which meant completely new fluid. This took less than 10 minutes.

As others have mentioned pad changes take less than a minute too.

Hope aftersales in my experience has been faultless too. They sent me a rubber seal free of charge for my 12 year old XC4’s last year.

I still find them lacking outright stopping power though. I’m not heavy (a shade under 13st) and I clean the rotors and pads regularly

this could be your issue with lack of power – there should be a thin layer of pad material deposited on the disc

Good point TJ and I can see where you’re coming from…I do however clean my Hayes/Avid brakes the same way too.

I may well fit braided hoses to my newer M4s and see if it helps any. My older M4s are doing sterling service on the missus’ bike, she loves them for their chunky lever shape and their feel.

I love the way they look. I don’t like riding with them. Tried mono minis, M4’s and the new tech 4s (i think). Never felt powerful enough compared to my old Hayes 9s (with 203 rotors). Now using avid elixr 3 and still find them more positive than Friends hopes.

TandemJeremy – If there is a thin layer of pad material on my brake disc why does the disc wear down? Only my pad would wear down but this is not the case? Genuine question.

Mr Plow…
The thin layer of pad material on the disc is not stuck to the disc. Therefore it will move when a pad makes contact, creating friction against both surfaces, wearing them both down. The pad will wear quicker as it is a softer material than the disc.

I’m sure someone else will be able to explain this betterer 😉

Had Hope and Shimano.

Prefer the power and feel of Shimano, but hate the fact that you can’t rebuild them.

Never, ever had a reliability problem with Hope brakes. Love the fact that you can rebuild the levers after a big off, love the looks but don’t find Mono Mini’s powerful or predictable. I drag brakes though and I know plenty of folks who really love em.

what rotors do you use on yr x2’s esselgruntfuttock ?

183 & 160

Love my V2s. Whole season of guiding last summer in the Alps, 3000m-5000m+ of descending every day. Loads of power, great feel, no reliability issues at all.

mr plow – Member

TandemJeremy – If there is a thin layer of pad material on my brake disc why does the disc wear down? Only my pad would wear down but this is not the case? Genuine question.

Its a mix of adherent and abrasive friction – the layer on the disc melts and is removed / replenished continually. If it were 100% adherent friction there would be no disc wear. mainly abrasive friction gives the rapid pad wear.

TandemJeremy

I’m picturing this as rubbing a chocolate bar between your hands. While cool you have little friction. Apply a lot of force and you have more friction and abrasive friction as bits may break off between the surfaces. The temp then goes up and you have some transfer to the hands and bits coming off and more friction?

Keep going and you have Hope brakes with Superstar pads 😉 Only joking as I have 2004 hope minis which have been great and still going well after one rebuild to refresh them a few years ago.

its as good as any analogy mr Plow

http://www.stoptech.com/technical-support/technical-white-papers/bed-in-theory-definitions-and-procedures/brake-pad-bed-in

Excellent read. I have been doing the right thing but not knowing why.

There is no discussion on “glazed” pads. Is that just a bad bed in or is it a physical change to the pad due to overheating and cooling to a different structure?

I think there are two different things – there is a cold glazing / polishing where the pad never gets hot enough and ends up with a low grip polished surface that squeals and a high temp which is the true glaze and is a overhard layer on the surface of the pad

Sounds right to me and would explain “glazing”/polishing in wet conditions.

Quick surface sanding of the pad, proper clean of the disk and a fresh bed in should solve most issues.

“removed and replenished continually” ????

If the pad is depositing material on the disc can it be removing from the disc at the same time ?

I’ve run hope brakes for most of my riding years, until I got some of the Shimano XT BR-M775’s off ebay cheap for my run about.

After that the hopes came right of my other bikes and I have Saint’s or XT’s, Hope are basically like a light switch on or off, shimano are like a dimmer, what ever the situation or mood, they will suit it.

By hopes if you want to pose and be ever so ooo la la, bling innit, if you want to ride your bike to the best of your abilities

GET SOME SHIMANO!

so…if probably the main reason that people like hope is the availability of spares and the main reason people like shimano is the feel, power and price why do so many people not really like hayes??

is it coz they’re just not cool enough or something because they are powerful, cheap enough, and you can buy all the spare parts for them.

genuine question. they have a bit of a shonky reputation. i remember taking a set of Hayes Nine to a shop to ask for a bleed and the mechanic wouldn’t touch them because he thought they were an absolute pain to bleed. when i learned the technique and compared to other manufs (Hope/Shimano) what the mechanic said couldn’t be further from the truth.

Good point hilldodger – stretching my understanding / knowledge.

like shimano but worse?

Hayes 9,s are unreliable and have a lot of problems / faults with the levers and calipers, also a lot of people don’t know how to bleed them 😉

In my experience they’re more trouble than their worth in terms of the older ones.

Haven’t used any of the new models but that’s simply because there are lots too choose from in terms of brakes and I LOVE SHIMANO!

Can stoppie on x2’s and I’m just under 14st.

Mine feel progressive. Have never grabbed.

Easy to set lever position. No need for allen keys.

Been through 3 sets of pads, never needed to bleed. In the worst weather and conditions.

Friend has new Avids (not sure which) on a 5. Needed to bleed a couple of times to get them back right again and he works for a bike manufacturer, knows his eggs.

Only have one complaint. They squeal in the wet. Tried Hope sh1t shifter just to satisfy myself it wasn’t residue on the rotor from cleaning. No change. Done it since new. Pads are not glazed. It’s been useful to let people know you’re coming at times and it can make you faster not wanting to hear a pig being murdered under you. Far from ideal though.

Oh yeah I had a vibration on the front but that turned out to be a set of naff pads.

Well, my Hayes Stroker Trails are lightish and have a powerful bite so I can understand the appeal, but compared to Hope the levers feel fragile, they’re much harder to bleed and spares don’t seem cheap.

TBH I’d planned to retire the Strokers early and replace them with something lighter and nicer on my xc bike. I can’t be bothered with the whole bleeding faff.

Hope are basically like a light switch on or off, shimano are like a dimmer, what ever the situation or mood, they will suit it.

Couldn’t be more wrong, I think you will find its the other way round.

Hope make good looking brakes, but they are under power, expensive and atleast in uk conditions need bled every five minutes, if you want good brakes stick with avid

Under powered, I can stoppie and weigh 13 stone, dude up there weighs 14 stone and can do the same. I imagine its the way they are set up more than anything.

Expensive. I don’t think you can call them expensive for what they are. Watch the Hope factory tour and you will see where your money goes.

Need bleeding every 5 min, why?

Avid and good brakes in the same sentence, now thats funny.

Hayes 9,s are unreliable and have a lot of problems

they’re not though. had them on my bikes for the last 5 years with no problems at all bar the odd bleed, which is normal.

my Hayes Stroker Trails are…much harder to bleed

how so? connect a syringe full of fluid at the calliper and some kind of receptacle at the lever, open the gate on calliper and force a whole load of fluid through the system which generally forces out all the air. as opposed to having to squeeze levers multiple times and the faff of spillage you get with Hope & Shimano. these are my experiences of bleeding the various brakes.

I can stoppie and weigh 13 stone, dude up there weighs 14 stone and can do the same

don’t particularly think that a stoppie is a test of a good brake coz there’s a fair amount of skill involved in doing on isn’t there! unless you mean you’re riding full speed sitting down and slam on the front brake…in which case: WOW great brakes!

if you want good brakes stick with avid

I knew stw was a strange place but I never thought I would see that sentence!

BillySuggar: Only have one complaint. They squeal in the wet. Tried Hope sh1t shifter just to satisfy myself it wasn’t residue on the rotor from cleaning. No change. Done it since new. Pads are not glazed. It’s been useful to let people know you’re coming at times and it can make you faster not wanting to hear a pig being murdered under you. Far from ideal though.

This! If you hear the squeal enough to annoy you, you’re doing it wrong! Similarly to the Pro2 – Why aren’t you peddling?!

Soooo much brand loyalty, takes me back to some iPod threads of old.

I’d be surprised if SRAM, Shimano, Hayes, Hope or anyone else produced brakes that didnt stop you, had to be “bled every 5 minutes” etc. This stuff generally works.

FWIW – I used Tech X2s and 180mm floating rotors for over 40,000m of decending last year on a 3 week trip. I’m under 11st and they were basically fine. Had to resort to 2 fingered braking occassionally, but no boiling or real fading.

But….maybe would have appreciated something slightly more powerful at times, though whatever that would have been would have been overkill for the other 95% of my riding. Still, thinking about Codes or M4s for this year’s longer trip.

I’d be surprised if SRAM, Shimano, Hayes, Hope or anyone else produced brakes that didnt stop you, had to be “bled every 5 minutes” etc. This stuff generally works.

true dat! hence my questions/comments re Hayes.

interesting point agentdagnamit but in the interests of the usuall STW objectivity 😀

i absolutly love Hopes, i’m 16st and have a set of Mono Mini’s that have no trouble at all stopping me, even at full chat on Cwm Carn downhill.

in the wet if you brake hard enough it heats up enough to stop the squeal, cannot recommned them enough

TandemJeremy – Member
stretching my understanding / knowledge.

Me too 🙂
I’m thinking that for material to deposit and stick to the rotor it must be melted from the pad rather than abraded as a solid, so you’re talking about an equilibrium system between the rotor and pad with material being continually exchanged in the fluid state, then as the rotor cools the fluid solidifies leaving a deposit of pad material on the rotor.

Then, next time the rotor heats to the temp where pad material can melt, you will have both the deposited material on the rotor melting and the “reservoir” of material on the pad melting.

“Bedding in” could be something to do with the amount of material initially depopsited from pad to rotor, so when the rotor next reaches “pad melting temperature” the ratio [deposited pad material melted on rotor]:[‘fresh’ pad material melted from pad] is shifted….

…hmmm too much coffee perhaps 😕

Anyway, my Hope’s have always been spot on 😀