HOPE not hate – inside the far right

More worryingly the comments from the Britain First guy saying he hopes the country continues to go downhill because that is when they will have more appeal and power. Someone has learnt a lesson from history, shame it’s not the main political parties.

Nail and head.  If you look at the pattern of increasing popularity of National Socialism / Nazism in the run up to them gaining power and the atrocities that followed it’s strongly aligned to but lagging a bit behind economic and other problems at a societal level escalating.

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

The people featured in the documentary after not a “laughing stock”. They’re dangerous.

I’d say that for many of these people, their ideas are dangerous, the people themselves are often Weird Little Guys. Molly Conger – who has made a career tracking and following many of the folks who took part in the Charlottesville marches, and who’s podcast that is has said in the past, that luckily for us, most of these guys think that they are going to be the leaders of the movement that they hope to create, so when they all get together, their egos get in the way of them actually achieving anything. Another researcher, Daniel Harper who contributes to the I don’t speak German podcast, often says the same things about the groups he infiltrates, many of them are such narcissistic arseholes they can’t actually organise themselves or others.

That’s obviously not to try to underplay that some of them go on to do horrific things individually, and websites such as 8-chan Daily Stormer, and Daily Showa and bear much of the responsibility for the (hateful term) “Gamification” of hate that is promoted and goes unchallenged, but at that point you’re well into the Gamergate theory of right wing harassment campaigns, once you start poking into this world, you realise that many of the folks who’re the target of this documentary are just the surface layer.

To be fair to those journalists, they play around the edges. To go any deeper risks go up by some measure. Especially internationally.

, many of them are such narcissistic arseholes they can’t actually organise themselves or others.

The same was largely true of Hitler’s inner circle.

Personally I think it’s dangerous to assume that someone with an agenda won’t put some effective machinery behind the figureheads.  There’s plenty of disenchanted behind looking for an excuse / justification to kick off.

A great many of the Nazis were deeply weird people, and some of them (including the man himself) were, by the war’s end, serious drug users. But they were broadly hierarchical and organised, they obviously didn’t think twice before shoving their colleagues under the bus if they thought it would help them, but ultimately; they had a plan.

Many of today’s neo-fascists are not those people. Again, their ideas are hateful, and some of them individually – Anders Brevik, Brenton Tarrant for example go on to do horrible horrible things, but they are the outliers. As RM suggests, the actual folks pouring money into these idiots are often shielded, and are never really investigated, and for the most part aren’t yer actual fascists  The most interesting and pointed part of that documentary is the fact that much of this stuff is just about moving the conversation, so that very right wing capitalism-conservatism is seen as as moderate and normal.

Yeah, it’s probably OK. When has a weird little narcissist ever successfully led a fascist movement to power?

“It makes no difference whatever whether they laugh at us or revile us … whether they represent us as clowns or criminals; the main thing is that they mention us, that they concern themselves with us again and again …”

for the most part aren’t yer actual fascists

This is Peter Thiel, multi billionaire who has funded lots of right wing “weirdos”:

“Liberalism is exhausted, one suspects that democracy, whatever that means, is exhausted, and that we have to ask some questions very far outside the Overton window.”

Or

no longer believe that freedom and democracy are compatible…”

Sounds a wee bit fascist. Musk also seems to think democracy is overrated.

Yeah, it’s probably OK. When has a weird little narcissist ever successfully led a fascist movement to power?

Where did I say that I thought it was ‘OK’? But Matthew Frost – the subject of the documentary isn’t going to rise up to be the next idiot strutting about in a cos-play uniform, It’s politicians like Trump and the people surrounding him that are the danger here. For the people behind the scene pouring money into these morons, that’s the plan. They don’t want to reinvent the thousand year Reich either, but they do want their very right wing version of ultra capitalism to seem like it’s normal, and part of the plan to make that happen is fund these idiots to help them be more prominent.

Thiel and Musk just want to not have to explain themselves or have some-one say “no” to them. Similar, I think, to much of the Silicon Valley ultra-rich (see also; Sam Bankman Fried) I don’t think either of them are fascists in that sense. Ultra-Libertarians is a better description.

Ultra-Libertarians is a better description.

Even that doesnt apply since they aint overly fond of libertarianism aside from for themselves. Think the closest is the robber barons or trying to get back to pseudo feudalism with the big man ruling his area.

This is Peter Thiel, multi billionaire who has funded lots of right wing “weirdos”:

The same Peter Theil that has Labour bent over a table and is extracting as much government and nhs data as he can for Palintir, Wes Streeting and Starmer both bought and paid for

Wasn’t the head of Hope Not Hate found to be making stories up about a muslim woman having acid thrown on her amongst other ‘hoaxes’?

Even that doesnt apply since they aint overly fond of libertarianism aside from for themselves. Think the closest is the robber barons or trying to get back to pseudo feudalism with the big man ruling his area.

Bellends works quite well.

Wasn’t the head of Hope Not Hate found to be making stories up about a muslim woman having acid thrown on her amongst other ‘hoaxes’?

I don’t know, was he?

The same Peter Theil that has Labour bent over a table and is extracting as much government and nhs data as he can for Palintir, Wes Streeting and Starmer both bought and paid for

Yes, the current government are also fascists, as well as fanatical centrists and are awaiting the dawn of the fourth reich.

Wasn’t the head of Hope Not Hate found to be making stories up about a muslim woman having acid thrown on her amongst other ‘hoaxes’?

Ah, the Nigel Farage ‘just asking’ tactic.

Yes, the current government are also fascists, as well as fanatical centrists and are awaiting the dawn of the fourth reich.

A centre reich party? The Starmer thread makes sense now, we just misheard…

He did, it was a tweet which was then fact checked.

His other ‘hoax’ was a made up list of towns where there were far right/nationalist protests being held.

Both shared via X where people routinely confuse activity for action. It is quite literally a place that generates thousands of storms in thousands of teacups.

He justified both by saying that as a result anti-racist messages were being made front page news.

Foolish to be quite frank, as if racists and bigots don’t provide enough actual evidence in their behaviour to justify countering. No need to make shit up, they’ll provide you with the justification.

Wasn’t the head of Hope Not Hate found to be making stories up about a muslim woman having acid thrown on her amongst other ‘hoaxes’?

No, but he was accused of promoting and stoking the protests that had made up those stories

So, the story goes like this. Some unidentified source tries to stoke up anti-immigration feeling by the usual tactic of being “a concerned local” the list was supposedly made up of immigrants held at detention centres in loads of locations who were the usual bogeymen; suspected rapists child molesters and so on. It’s totally fictitious, they’re all made up, and designed solely to provoke demos (and hopefully a bit of argy-bargy with the cops) to get into the press.

Nick Lowes and Hope Not Hate were then accused of spreading and promoting the planned demos presumably in the hope that it would encourage counter-demonstrations. There was quite a fuss with lots of folks essentially accusing HNH of using the fakery (that they knew was fake) to their own ends just as much as the original plan was, and that a better use would’ve been to perhaps highlight the fact that it was all a load of made up shit. To make it worse perhaps, Nick took to Twitter to admit that they knew it was all fake, but legitimatised the behavior by saying;

“Yes, the list was a hoax, but just look at the front pages of today’s papers. An anti-racist message is being transmitted to millions of homes this morning”

So that’s the story.

Beaten to it by R-M

a better use would’ve been to perhaps highlight the fact that it was all a load of made up shit.

The problem here is, this doesn’t work.

I’ve no idea whether the story is a failure to fact-check – the tweet posted here says “reports are coming in” which may well have been true in itself – or a deliberate intent to mislead. But the Right and their bootboy tabloids have been dining on this tactic for years, tales of “immigrants” coming here and getting free castles or what have you, “share if you think this is a disc race” and it gets shared to **** and back. The fact that it’s a lie is neither here nor there. The Mail worked out decades back that they could report whatever the hell they wanted as headline news and then recant two days later in a small boxout on page 7.

It’s too late, the message is out there, it’s in people’s heads. Going “yeah, it’s not true” changes nothing. Look at brexit. Christ, we’re still dealing with the MMR anti-vax fallout caused by Andrew Bastard Wakefield and that was in the 1990s, how is “he made it up” working out for us there?

I’m ashamed to be thinking this, but would a horrific murder by right wing extremists be “more effective” in making the public wake up to the reality of what these groups are trying to do and why their lies need to be stopped?

And then I remembered Jo Cox and realised I was thinking bollocks.

They are like a cancer in society and enough people still want to keep on smoking regardless.

That’s like most ‘isms/ists’ isn’t it. It’s clearly an inate part of the human condition and will be a constant factor in social unrest.

Doesn’t mean the march to combat or attempts to eradicate it stop, just means expectations are managed and the task is clear.

“Don’t be afraid of work that has no end” rings true.

The problem here is, this doesn’t work.

Sure,  I’m not the marketing director of Hope Not Hate, I’m pretty sure they probably know their playing field better than the people arguing with them about their tactics.

kcr
Free Member

This is Peter Thiel, multi billionaire who has funded lots of right wing “weirdos”:

Always worth remembering that the only reason Elon Musk was the first CEO of the merged x.com and Confinity- which became Paypal- is that Peter Thiel was such an enormous **** that nobody wanted him to do the job, they chose instead to vote for the guy whose company was only in the merger in order to destroy them as a competitor. But then they got to know Musk, and as soon as they did they fired his ass because while Thiel was an enormous **** at least he wasn’t a total incompetent. Musk then proceeded to get enormously rich based on Thiel’s business decisions while still thinking he was a genius and knew better.

When there is so much depressing news, and it’s a dank October day, it is lovely to see a little ray of sunshine which warms the cockles of your heart :0)

Tommy Robinson has been charged under the terrorism act after handing himself in at a police station in Folkestone, Kent.

https://news.sky.com/story/tommy-robinson-charged-after-handing-himself-in-at-police-station-in-kent-13240838

Stop Tommy Robinson, Stop the far right – unite against racism, Islamophobia and antisemitism

The PCS union at work was drumming up support for the anti-Tommy march.

The brilliant thing about Stephen Lennon being held under Schedule 7 is that it is aimed at terrorist suspects entering the country and being stopped at the border. That must make it double painful for him!

He is also being held on remand so he won’t be attending his own march.

Also in today’s news, another right wing “outlier”:

A Nazi-obsessed extremist who stabbed an asylum seeker in the chest and said he was “exterminating the invasive species” in a “terrorist manifesto” has been found guilty of attempted murder.

Callum Parslow, who has Adolf Hitler’s signature tattooed on his left arm, repeatedly stabbed Nahom Hagos, 25, in the attack at a hotel previously used to house asylum seekers in Worcestershire.

In a post he tried to publish on X after the attack, Parslow said he had “done his duty to England” and had “exterminated the harmful, invasive species”. He tried to tag Tommy Robinson in the post, as well as prominent politicians such as Keir Starmer, Rishi Sunak, Nigel Farage and Suella Braverman.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/oct/25/man-hitler-tattoo-convicted-attempted-murder-nahom-hagos-asylum-seeker

Somebody like this doesn’t spring out of nowhere. They are sitting in their bedrooms reading stuff like the pseudo scientific nonsense peddled by Matthew Frost and his associates, and using it to justify their so-called manifestos. That’s why it is important that the people investigated in the C4 documentary are exposed to daylight.

There’s many outsiders to society – ”weirdos” as you like to call them – who have not a fascist bone in their body please don’t equate them with it. -edit: other than that don’t mind me, carry on. Going to try watching it later.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/oct/25/tommy-robinson-held-in-custody-ahead-of-far-right-march-in-london

Nick Lowles, the group’s chief executive, said: “I think it’s going to be a lot angrier, regardless of whether Lennon is there or not. This one is very much aimed at the prime minister, the police, and this sense of injustice around the riots. My understanding is the police are quite concerned about the public order element.

 

“The chatter in the football hooligan WhatsApp groups is that they are coming in quite big numbers. And given that many of the people who will be there have a kind of liking for violence or disorder, I can understand why the police are worried.”

I used ”weirdos” as a reference to an earlier post (hence the quotes). I’m not equating “outsiders to society” (whoever they are) with anything. I’m talking about Fascists, and unfortunately a lot of them are very much part of our society.

Tommy Robinson jailed for contempt of court

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c704eedkqkvo

“such a controversial figure he may be placed in solitary confinement by prison governors, as had occurred the last time he had been jailed, and there was medical evidence he had previously suffered trauma, panic attacks and nightmares”

Oh that’s a shame.

I know, bless him. What a foul man.

Big up HNH who according to Guardian prepared a  dossier to suggest a breach of the injunction.

I like this..

The court was told by Sasha Wass KC, for Robinson, that he was a journalist and it was his “principles that have brought him before the court”.

She argued for mitigation on the basis that her client had pleaded guilty “sooner rather than later” even though he previously failed to turn up at a hearing of the case in July.

Robinson was ordered to pay costs of £80,350.82 sought by the solicitor general. He was reminded by Mr Justice Johnson that he would still be subject to the injunction after his release and liable for sanction again if he breached it.

Exactly how did he think this was going to end?

Clearly thick as well as an odius racist..

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Boo hoo…although tbf I’d happily see him serve his sentence in the general population..

Exactly how did he think this was going to end?

Martyrdom. There will be fury erupting amongst the FREE ARE TOMY brigade.

He knew this was going to happen, hence skipping the last court date and going on his holibobs whilst stoking the rioting.

There will be fury erupting amongst the FREE ARE TOMY brigade.

Especially when they hear how much he hates prison and how it causes him to have panic attacks and nightmares. According to medical evidence.