So I’ve had an outside interest in extracting the most from my hi-fi source for years. I haven’t fully delved into the digital/mp3 world yet although that will follow soon, I’m coming from a CD and vinyl perspective.

I love giant slaying equipment and solutions, and would love to read your recommendations and observation on some thrifty do’s and dont’s when it comes to set up.
My system:
Marantz CD63 KI (ken ishiwata signiture edition)
Marantz PM66 KI (c/w ishiwata phono stage)
Rega Planar 2 turntable (original stylus)
Monitor Audio bronze BX2 speakers

Recently I moved into a new flat, and find mysf a bachelor for pretty much the first time in my life, so the stereo now takes centre stage in my living room, and I’ve decided to tweak..

Some completely disagree with their sonic properties, but I’ve recently ordered a set of granite plinths to rest my separates and speakers on. I don’t have a dedicated hi-fi stand unfortunately, but instead make do with some 60’s modular wooden furniture – not ideal, hopefully the granite will help here.
I’m close to taking the plunge on some lovely Atacama Moseco speaker stands which should extract some more clarity and lessen the muddy bass I’m getting.
Right now I’m concentrating mostly on the turntable and snapping up various little upgrades. Namely:
Twin belt pulley with silicon belts
Alu sub platter
Rubber/cork mat
Thrust bearing
Motor isolation shroud
Upper plinth metal bracing
Tungsten counterweight from RB300 (RB250 fitted)

Other than ensuring level placement of turntable and careful placement of leads, what further upgrades have you carried out that in your opinion altered the sound of your system for the better?, or worse!
Have any of you tried any of the upgrades I’ve described, or similar others? What were your results?

I’ve witnessed great results from suspending all seperates on rubber straps, in the interest of removing vibrations. I’m keen to experiment with various rubber feet for isolation purposes, any observations here?

Interested to hear your thoughts

I went through a few years of upgrading hi-fi but when I eventually put together a set-up I really liked I then stuck with that, barring the occasional tweak to include streaming capability etc.

I’ve got two turntables – one is a Linn LP12 that is in my main system in my Edinburgh place. It was well set-up when I got it and I’ve left it that way. There are loads of upgrades possible (many of them pretty expensive) but I’ve left it as standard because I already love the way it sounds. The only significant upgrade I’ve made with the turntable was putting it onto a decent wall mounted rack.

The other turntable is an old Thorens TD160Mk2 and that I have played around with upgrading – arm, counterweight, various cartridges and mats etc. The Thorens was getting on a but anyway so the changes did make a big difference to how it sounds and how it looks. The biggest change was a cartridge upgrade – I’d been through various ones on it (various moving magnet Linn’s plus a few others) but ended up with a Denon DL110 high output moving coil and that sounds really good.

I’m sure you can make some noticable improvements with upgrades to your Planar 2 but based on my own experience I’m not convinced I’d hear a significant improvement in sound from most of the uses you mentioned – things like twin belts etc.

Decent speaker stands I do find make a difference compared to not having any, but I’m not sure I’d spend a lot of cash on those either. I’ve spent quite a bit of hi-fi racks over the years but while I’ve found the isolation makes a difference, especially with turntables, I’m not convinced I can hear a significant difference between a basic Target rack I used to use and the expensive Mana Acoustics stuff that replaced it.

As long as cables are decent I’ve not found that using really expensive ones makes a difference so will never go down that route (I’ve got one £100+ interconnect but would be lying if I said I could hear a difference between that and a £30 one).

A better external phono stage might make a difference – it did in my system – but to be honest I’d say your system looks pretty well balanced and unless you’re upgrading all of it I’d be surprised if there were huge gaines to be made. It might be better looking into the streaming side of things and adding a solution for that onto your system.

A wall shelf for the turntable works well.

I think the RB250 is probably the most modded hi-fi part in history (maybe), so there will be a million forum threads on that.

I was never very happy with my Marantz equipment personally. In fact the KI signature stuff sometimes sounded worse to my ears than the normal. I wish I’d kept the NAD 3020 instead until I got a load of Naim stuff.

I was reading yesterday that Rega have had a bumper year with their turntables this year.

After being a long time customer of http://www.theaudioworks.co.uk/ I am completely convinced in their setup methods.
They make their own range of stands/feet/etc all designed to be ‘dead’.
The amount of energy in their systems is always incredible.

For a time, they sold a piece of Hi-Fi I designed and we did a couple of shows together and each time, I’d never heard it sounding better than when it was surrounded by their stands/powerblocks/etc.

The Music Works….

They started with MDF, then Acrylic and now a material called Peek, so there are probably some things you could make yourself.

I look at your system and see 2 weak links, the cart and speakers.
I started down a similar path as you and there is a massive jump in quality once you go from a Rega cart to something from ortofon/Benz/sumiko etc. I’m currently using a sumiko blue point special which is getting on a bit now but it blows anything from Rega out of the water. You will need a washer under the arm though but that’s an easy mod

The best upgrade I made to my turntable was a decent DAC so I could play Lossless audio files from my computer!!

I’ve got an LP12, but it never gets used as I just do not see how a turntable and vinyl can sound as good as digital audio. I’ve played brand new 180gm vinyl and compared it back to back with digital copies of the same stuff, and the vinyl just isn’t as good and pops and crackles right from the word go, let alone trying to play older vinyl that I inherited from my Dad.

>offers music advice
>justinbieber

pops and crackles

A clean sound isn’t the only measure of musical quality.
When I go to a concert, there are people coughing in the audience, but that doesn’t necessarily mean the artist is communicating any less.

Fewer pops and crackles are better, but there are lots of more/equally important aspects at play.

Ha! Yeah, I realise the name doesn’t particularly qualify me for talking about music, but you know what, I’m not actually Justin Bieber. It’s just a stupid nickname given to me in north Wales while on a biking holiday.

And I stick by what I said – vinyl might be right for some people and if it’s set up absolutely perfectly then it might sound really good, but the quality falls of the cliff far too quickly for me and spoils my enjoyment.

I’d rather listen to something that is 99% good for 100% of the time, rather than something which might be 100% good for only 50% of the time.

Speakers look like the weakest link in that lot. You can get some brilliant second-hand speakers if you’re patient/lucky. Also if you’re able to, room treatments would probably make the biggest difference.

I haven’t fully delved into the digital/mp3 world yet

I love giant slaying equipment and solutions

On that basis you should really embrace the new tech. Even a budget HD player or network streamer will certainly render your CD63 totally obsolete. Let’s put it this way I now have a Naim CDX sitting around gathering dust.

As for the turntable, original stylus can’t be good. How old is it? A whole new higher quality cart as suggested above should make much more difference than any of the other tweaks you mentioned. I used to change the stylus on my Linn K9 on an annual basis when I was regularly spinning vinyl. Now it’s once in a blue moon.

Now it’s once in a blue moon.

That’s once every 2 years 😉

And I stick by what I said – vinyl might be right for some people and if it’s set up absolutely perfectly then it might sound really good, but the quality falls of the cliff far too quickly for me and spoils my enjoyment.

Vinyl is vinyl though. It has a distinct sound. Not technically better but certainly has a character all of its own. I still prefer certain specific music played over a quality turntable (Linn LP12 etc) eg. Led Zep since the digital re-masters were absolute shite (have both vinyl and CD versions of all their albums). The vinyl versions sound right for the period, whereas the CD versions just sound compressed and very low quality, especially through a high end CD player. Same goes for a lot of 70’s/80’s albums that were originally mastered for vinyl.

Anything vaguely modern i.e. 90’s to present day I much prefer through CD or lossless disk. But vinyl still has a place for older stuff, especially if you have a decent vinyl collection.

Usual one-word answer… 😀

I’d go speakers and cartridge. With things like the twin belts and aluminium sub platter, what makes you think the current setup is causing problems?

For the cash you’d invest in the Planar 2, you could probably sell the Planar 2 and put the cash toward a P3/24 or something instead – you’d get the arm upgrade that way as well.

Try thinking about it in the same way as a bike – say you installed a really expensive stem – would you expect it to transform the whole experience? Probably not – things like the aluminium sub platter are probably in the same regime. (All speculation, I hasten to add. I’m still using the standard platter on my Planar 3 and haven’t found it too woefully lacking).

Then again, that doesn’t mean the stem isn’t a valid thing to buy – it’ll look nice and make you happy. If buying that stuff makes you happy, go for it 🙂

Being suspicious is a good thing with hifi. People can sell all sorts because most people lack the equipment to actually definitively say whether or not A is better than B – so have to make emotional judgements. As we all know, these are easily fooled! So yeah. Emperors new clothes gets my vote – save your cash and upgrade the whole thing when you’re ready. Speakers will be the most obvious gain.

Edit: If you like what you hear with the speakers, keep ’em! No point changing stuff because random people say something else is better. No-one else can ever hear what you hear 😀

Some great tips already, thanks guys.
Regarding vinyl quality, I find that the better you have isolated the turntable, the more that pops and crackles simply disappear. I have a mix of new 180g records, and 60s/70s/80s/90s various and on many occasions I’m blown away with just how clear and dynamic the sound is from them (let alone with a few upgrades).
For example, I’ve backed to back the Beck Sea Change CD with the two vinyl copies I have (one a Mo-Fi version) and quite simply, the vinyl versions ooze a depth and dare I say it ‘warmth’ that the (excellent) CD does not portray.
Last night my Sonic Youth, Dylan and Fleetwood Mac albums sounded fab on vinyl.
Considering I picked up my turntable for something like £90 (low mileage 2nd hand) and it’s humble cartridge, it sounds fab already. That’s what i love about considered budget hifi.

Interesting to read comments regarding my speakers. Remembering that my initial ethos is for giant slaying equipment – the reviews on the BX2’s were enough for me to at least give them a trial. I home tested them alongside a pair of considerably more expensive B&Ws and I simply preferred the BX2’s. I consider them an upgrade from my long term Mission 771’s anyway, which didn’t have enough bass response for me.
I will upgrade my speakers again once I find a pair that I’m certain I’ll enjoy more, but for now, pound for pound my monitor audios are brilliant.

I have a Rega wall stand for my turntable but have yet to set it up, looking forward to hearing the results. In the meantime, I’ll trial a granite plinth under my TT and see how that goes.
I’d like to upgrade the cartridge and have a hankering for an Ortofon blue or red – but that won’t be for a while yet, if at all – as I may decide to do something silly like blow a wedge on an RP6.. Or 8..

Re speaker cable/interconnects, I agree – I’m not fussed for the expensive gear.

Thanks for the links too, I’ll certainly check them out. Keep it coming!

`Marantz PM66 KI (c/w ishiwata phono stage)

Same hear.
Lovely, aren’t they?

but I’ve recently ordered a set of granite plinths to rest my separates and speakers on.

Bought some to protect a wooden floor, chopping boards from Tesco.
Best upgrade in years, tbh.

I’ve got a Planar 3 with the RB300 and a Rega Elys 2 cartridge, on an old Target steel stand.

Idly looked into upgrading the Rega, came to a different conclusion –
I’d go for a new Rega motor with an outboard supply.
An acrylic platter.
Possibly subplatter & bearing.
A new cartridge – the Elys is really detailed and tracks amazingly well, but lacks a bit of sparkle.

But it sounds great as it is, so I’ll leave it for the mo.
🙂

If you like tinkering, your plan sounds great, but you could always sell your RP2 and get a better turntable if you don’t.

Agreed Rusty – the P2 and amp combo works really well. I like the motor upgrade idea, I’m just playing with small tweaks at the moment in order to begin to see what a P2 can do, before splashing too much cash on it.
I’m a big fan of the Michael Lim upgrade forum so when he released a budget version of his alu subplatter, I couldn’t resist adding it to an order – really keen to see if it’s a worthy upgrade – if not, it’ll sell for a good price!

I’m aiming for a wide open soundstage – with distinct separation. Every now and again, on a certain track my system hits the sweet spot. Hopefully with tweaking I can make it more consistent.
When I experimented with the rubber strap hifi stand as mentioned earlier there was an immediate and big improvement – it seems to me that there are no good vibrations, let’s keep things isolated!

A great upgrade to your deck will be getting that shelf up. Isolation from the floor makes a massive difference. I’ve had a number of TT’s over the years (Roksan, Nottingham Analog, VPI) and currently use a Clearaudio. I’d like to think I know a fair bit about TT’s.

A Rega 2 is a decent budget TT however I’d not go too mad on the upgrades, for 500 or so you could pick up something a fair bit better, 1000 and you’re into a second hand VPI scout, Clearaudio Champion, Notts Analog etc.

If your keen to keep the Rega I’d just replace the Cartridge and get a decent phono stage. The upgrades you’re suggesting are all worth trying but a new cart will really up the ante, I’d suggest a Denon DL301 or DL110 and something like a Trichord Dino/Rega fono. On Ebay you can get a NVA phono 1 stage, they are excellent stages and very good value, I’ve got a phono 2 and it’s leagues ahead of others I’ve used.

.

I’m assuming you’ve set up the deck properly especially the VTA (a pain to do on the planar) and have a decent alignment protector and tracking pressure gauge, setting it up properly makes a massive difference as I’m sure you know.

A Rega P6 in unused mint condition went for £450 on pink fish recently.
I would go that route if you are looking for a decent upgrade. Rega’s don’t seem to benefit from fiddling. I’ve got a P3 with an Ortofon MC cartridge & it’s fab.
There is still something special about holding a 180gm vinyl record, looking at the message scratched into the inner groove, putting it on the turntable & admiring the sleeve & cover.

Alas, mine is set up fairly crudely (embarrased face emoticon).
Happy to take your suggestions on which bits and pieces and what not to buy in order to get best set up. Please remember the budget though..

I’ll get the stand on the wall pronto, good to hear positive results elsewhere. Then it looks like I may need to go cartridge shopping

I wouldn’t be able to resist a mint P6 for that money. Lovely.

Edit: shit, someone’s gone and listed an RP25 minus arm for £200 on ePay.. I love the look of them, I wonder if my RB250 can do it justice?.. Would be a nice potential upgrade from my plinth and motor

So you need a 2 point cartridge alignment protractor which you can get on ebay for a few quid and a Shure stylus gauge for the tracking weight. If you can, go for an moving coil cartridge like the DL301 if your amp has a MC stage the DL 110 or something if not, I do think well made budget MC’s are inherently better sounding so perhaps look at a high output MC..

Get over to the vinyl engine it’s a great resource for set up and so on.

I have BX2’s. Love ’em.

Look at the technology in them vs the rest of the MA range. You can pay hundreds more from the same company, and you don’t really get anything different.

I think they sound great…. though I did add a hefty sub.

justinbieber – I beliebe you’re perfectly qualified, just pulling your tonearm, matey 🙂

http://www.vinylengine.com/tools.shtml

Cheers jools

Get yourself on eBay and buy some thick acrylic – the guy I used cut it and flame polished the sides for free. Bang a set of sorbothane fet on and you’ve got a decent plinth on the cheap to play about with for you TT/amp etc.

Two aluminium brackets and a set of screws/rawlplugs. Levelled with long screws to the wood. I tried glass and foam and stuff, makes no difference.

It look extremely wonky, but the CoG is in the middle 🙂

About £15 all in.

Love it
Thumbs up for substance over style 🙂

About £15 all in.

Really – it looks like it’s from the skip 🙂

The Rega shelf used to only be about £30. Don’t know these days. But it couldn’t be levelled after installation which made it fiddly.

Anything lightweight and level on the wall should be good. It’s isolation from the floor you’re looking for, so ideally on an external wall that goes down to foundations. If it’s an interior stud wall that is sat on the floor, it doesn’t work as well.

They are £100 now! I picked one up unused for £50.
You’re right in that they can’t be levelled after fitting, but some adjustable feet for the TT should sort that if required.

This ones nice

I’ve got one of these, in fact this is mine it’s a Stands unique transition shelf

I’ve got a couple of McIntosh MT5 turntables which I got in just so we had a couple of decks to play/dj on now and then, to be honest they we’re a bit of an excessive splurge as most of the time the cat sleeps on them.

Get a couple of mates round – each one lifts up a speaker with its stand, sit in your listening position, and get them to move forwards and backwards, etc, to find the best position where the stereo appears to ‘snap’ into place.

Also look at room treatment/furnishing – for instance if your have a 3 piece setup and the chairs are big and ‘fluffy’ then put them on the outside of each speaker so they catch the ‘first reflections’.

Look at your carpet/rugs – if your system is too ‘dark’ try a less thick rug, etc.

Really – it looks like it’s from the skip

Well, I had one day, a budget of frak-all and quite frankly I just wanted the fastest way to make the thing work, which it previously didn’t do because of the subwoofer, which sounds best against the wall, so it’s now replaced one of the bookshelves that was under the curtains in this pic. As you can see in the new layout, the sub would make too many vibrations and so I had the aforementioned time/budget to get the damn thing off the bookshelf. Oh, and it can’t be symmetrical because the brickwork is not quite as wide as the Rega/Sony.

From head height, it’s only the front of the chipboard that catches the eye, but seeing as I’m still not being paid by anyone, have just spend all my spare money taking the white rabbit to the vet, have an emergency lodger in my office forcing me to spend all bloody day in the living room and have two house rabbits, AND it works perfectly well allowing me to actually use the damn player, I think I’ve done rather well.

If anyone wants to send me a free HiFi Racks choppingboard, as above, I’d be very grateful. Actually, that’s going to be the mod to my homebrew rack, a giant solid chopping board.

Anyone who feels like pointing out that one of the brackets isn’t straight [let alone central] is welcome to come round to my place and drill another, straighter, hole in the engineering bricks that form that wall. My tools consist of a drillbit, and a hammer to tap it. No drill, and certainly no SDS drill.

Lastly the whole lot, ALL of it, cost me about £400. Including cables.

I see your point, it doesn’t look like it cost £5k, but it sounds brilliant, so seeing as I have been a student with no spare money for the last 4 years, I think I’m doing OK, don’t you?

Covering the walls and floor with something soft would make more difference than better components in there IMO. How much would a few hundred egg boxes cost?

Then more power. Normally I listen using a conventional stereo (BX2s etc.). I had a play with the PA normally used for three voices in the same room. Well over 200W per channel even wiring speakers in series to up resistance and limit power. Tunes from the likes of Slade, AC/DC and Téléphone sound (and feel) great – never mind the quality , feel the quantity. Detached house with triple glazing BTW.

I think I’m doing OK, don’t you?

There was a smiley – I didn’t mean to offend 🙂

OK. I’m just getting pretty fed up of doing everything on a budget and with spare parts, so I guess I’m a bit touchy about it!

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EDIT: Feel free to ponder why I have 12 channels of amplification 🙂

Tries to resuscitate the thread he killed and backs away slowly……

New tangent time.

So I should have £5-600 in january and I’ve come to realise that my living room has a floorstander shaped hole (or 2). The issue is that I’m not really sure what to get. I’ve already got an amp (Cambridge Audio SR10, it was a bargain) and a cd player (Pioneer PD S703, another bargain), I was having a look at the Klipsch RF52 IIs but I can’t find a real world shop that’s local to me so I can have a listen.

What are the real best value floorstanders?