I’ve started doing that – my observation is they do sound exactly the same as the original CD – whether good or bad. The 24bit recording is a noticeable step up though.

Which streamer are you using and what did you use to rip the CDs? EAC or MediaMonkey?

A CD player has a DAC built in to convert the digital dots to an analogue signal to feed to the Hi-Fi amp and speakers. The main reason to use a NAS and stream the music is convenience-no racks of CD’s cluttering up the lounge. A NAS is only a hard drive which is also wi-fi enabled so music can be accessed either wirelessly or via cable to a player of some sort.If you copy your music to FLAC files and put them on the NAS it still has CD quality. To listen you need a Streamer ,PC or player to access these files. This must have a DAC built in or enable an output to a separate DAC to feed the Amp.If it is a cheap streamer then something like the Rega DAC is a good upgrade. If it is a more expensive streamer then it’s probably good anyway. I don’t know but I would assume a PC doesn’t have a particularly good DAC. I use a Logitech Squeezebox Touch (now inexplicably discontinued) with an Audiolab M.Dac and it sounds superb.
Re-above post-I use EAC

My buddy in Northants has a Slim Devices Transporter, and it sounds fantastic. It finds and plays tunes from the NAS.

It was the early model, pre Logitech.

Now that looks cool.

I live the idea of streaming high q files. I’m just not sure I can do it without spending a small fortune, sounds like lots of devices needed to get end result with benefits over CD

Where is the best place for idiots to learn all about DAC / NAS etc? Until last week I had no idea what DAC even stood for..

You could try somewhere like AVForums to get a learn yourself background. Or, if you prefer the face to face approach think about popping into your local Richer Sounds or hi fi shop to have a chat with someone. I agree, it can all seem a bit bewildering at first!

I’m lead to believe the sound quality surpasses CD – and there is a considerable convenience factor to consider when set-up correctly. I just don’t know where to begin.

I’m not sure I would go that far. If done right it should be able to give the same sound quality as the original CD. The key will be how the CDs are ripped. You need a program such as EAC (Exact Audio Copy) or MediaMonkey to copy (Rip) the CD into a target file format. The use of something like FLAC or WAV is that they are known as lossless formats. FLAC is compressed (so smaller file sizes) whereas WAV is uncompressed (so around the same size a the file on the CD is). Apple do their own version of lossless (ALAC) if you have a lot of Apple kit already and want to “keep it in the family”. If you use something like iTunes today the chances are any files you have ripped from D will be mp3 which is both compressed and lossy. It keeps the file sizes down (good) but at the expense of some (ok, a lot) of the digital content (bad). Overall, mp3 does a reasonable job of keeping the detail of the music by trying to remove the stuff that may not be humanly audible. However, the result is if you compare playing an mp3 file with a CD or vinyl you very quickly work out that there appears to be a lot missing from the overall quality of the sound and, when played through reasonable quality equipment, sounds really quite poor.

For the most part a lot of this has bypassed us in the past because when we bought a CD player it included the DAC. It is only since the advent of digital streaming and the convenience of storing and playing the digital files directly rather than via a CD player that the need for external DACs appeared. If you have a CD collection and are happy to play CDs and fish them in and out of the payer then you could save yourself all the hassle of learning about DACs and streaming because you don’t need to know it. The advantage of ripping CDs and storing them on a NAS is that it makes it quicker and easier (possibly) to navigate your music collection and play whatever you want. Or to create playlists composed of tracks from a variety of CDs – but to be able to play them at CD quality rather than the good old days or recording them all to tape. Oh, and then we get streaming music services such as Spotify or Qobuz and internet streaming radio stations which can benefit from DAC before they hit your hifi system.

So, after all that, it will come down to how you plan to listen to music which will determine what you do or don’t need to buy. 🙂

Wow-that looks neat,never seen one of those before. I assume it has all the same functions as my Squeezebox but just a different form factor

They’re hard to come-by these days. Many people think their sound is as good as anything ever made.

I doubt he’d ever sell his!

Which streamer are you using and what did you use to rip the CDs? EAC or MediaMonkey?

Cambridge Audio Minx xi and dbpoweramp.

Thanks for the answer BC.
In short, I listen every day, for between 2 and 8 hours. The TV barely gets a look in anymore.

Where does 24bit come in to this? I keep spotting reference to sound quality that surpasses CD.. Is this 24bit?

I will hit Richer Sounds with my ignorance at some point soon, just waiting for a quiet period as I know I’ll be taking up a fair amount of their time 🙂

http://www.trustedreviews.com/Slim-Devices-Transporter-review

Great layman review of that squeezebox of tricks here.
Clears things up no end for me :-/

I know it’s one subjective review , but makes me happy not to give up my CD player just yet.

I have also seen great reviews of the Rega DAC.

“I like budget giant slaying equipment” he says..

Never believe a word I say.
This months mortgage payment blown (and then some)

Earlier comments were right. Spend a bit more on a better TT rather than upgrade old one. I reckon this lot will end up costing me no more than £200 once I’ve sold my now redundant TT and bits off.
And I have my dream TT.

Couldn’t believe it when I got home with the RP6 and found my fave colour plinth listed at half what I was going to pay. It’s like I was meant to buy it..

Oh yeah, and then there were these..

Enjoy, dude 🙂

[/url]DSCF8376.jpg [/img]

Here’s the Rega Planar 25 I got thanks to the earlier thread, thanks, its very nearly mint!

Also a 956BX Discrete and an Audiolab Pre/Power Combo?

I had the regular 965BX and it was ace. Me ol’man used a 8000A for ages and he really rated it.

Cool beans.

Well spotted Gofaster…965BX LE Discrete, owned from new, snapped up for £250 in a sale in 1996. 😀 I’ll never sell it. Lovely. Got it re-clocked a few years back too.

Audiolabs were second hand about 9 years ago, driving AVI Biggatrons that came from a closing down studio. Warm detailed sources, analytical amps and speakers.

The Planar 25 replaced the Thorens 166 mk2 that (recently) got me back to vinyl after selling my Planar 3 about 9 years ago. That was an error, just glad I never parted with my records.

The 25 is lovely. Got an RB300 with clear audio sixstream rewire and interconnects on it as the 25 was armless.

P25 looks ace, I’m slightly envious. That was a really good deal, the RB300 must sound superb on it.
If I didn’t have to splash out on an additional TT-PSU I would’ve snapped that plinth up.
As it is the deal I got on the P6 was too good to miss.
Happy days all round

Happy days indeed, must have listened to 5 or 6 hours of music yesterday alone!

Why would you need a PSU for the 25? Different hertz where you are? I thought they just changed the pulley wheel (33:45 bit)Could be wrong though.

Your P6 is lovely btw, post a photo when it’s got its green plinth please. When I added up the TT (£200) arm (£160) and cartridge (£120) it’s not that much of a bargain so I’m betting the P6 was the better deal, being the better table. Hope you enjoy it.

Will do, currently awaiting sourcing of ‘sticky pad’ in order to mount motor in green plinth.

Didn’t you already have the arm waiting to go on the P25? I agree, not such a bargain if sourcing everything separately (although much prefer look of P25 to the P5 and 7), but if switchinghg bits over then a nice upgrade in sound and aesthetics for £200

No, arm was “new” too. So P25 was £360 (one went on ebay the other day for £340 so it’s about right, no cartridge ) but my RB300 has Clearaudio six stream cable worth an apparent £450 8O, sure the cable looks much better than the standard tone arm wire and interconnects from my old Planar 3 with RB300.

Not sure I’d have paid that amount for some wire and someone to fit it so sort of convincing myself it is probably better than an RB600 that should have been on the P25.

It’s all lovely though and sounds superb to me.

the “picture frame” around the P5 and P7 is pretty bad looking compared to the 25. What were they thinking.

http://www.oregonlive.com/music/index.ssf/2014/11/does_vinyl_really_sound_better.html

Picked up from
http://news.slashdot.org/story/14/12/14/1527220/vinyl-record-pressing-plants-struggle-to-keep-up-with-demand

It’s pretty basic, but interesting nonetheless.

Some intersting and sensible comments for once – warts and all.

Interesting that vinyl is now being compared against streaming audio and mp3 rather than against CD.

I think that’s because CD is largely over as a format.

@coolhandluke – 100% agree, the P25 is so much better looking than others of that ilk. Although, the picture frame versions still seem very popular!
Have you seen the current listed P5.. He’s carried out some interesting ‘mods’ of his own.

I would love to know what the rewire on your arm actually translates to in terms of performance. Almost certainly not a £400 improvement leap (in relative terms). But it must sound better than standard, right? Other than adjustability, that’s the thing I like about my new RB301, the phono lead is much more substantial and has a real quality feel over my old RB250 jobbie.
May make sod all difference to output but makes me feel good anyway!

Jools – until there’s a sea change in ease of transfer from CD to equivalent quality streaming – I’ll always turn to my (fairly substantial) CD collection for a fix.
Plus, CD’s are available in abundance and super cheap, and can actually be interesting to collect different mixes and releases from through the years and listen to the changes.

I may of course change my mind, but I don’t see me dropping my CD-63 for many years. Probably as I’m a lazy arse though, and I can’t be bothered with all the new acronyms!

I would love to know what the rewire on your arm actually translates to in terms of performance. Almost certainly not a £400 improvement leap (in relative terms). But it must sound better than standard, right? Other than adjustability, that’s the thing I like about my new RB301, the phono lead is much more substantial and has a real quality feel over my old RB250 jobbie.

I changed the wiring on the SME arm on my LP12 (to change it from a DIN connector mainly) but couldn’t notice a difference other than it having better connectors etc. afterwards. I think I might have rewired the RB250 om my TD160 as well but again without any sonic difference being noticeable to me (the wiring was a bit rough previously – I hadn’t been expecting to hear differences).

Given the low outputs that cartridges work at I could see the wiring making a difference, especially for a low-output MC. I’ve always used high output MC’s and MM’s though, which might be why I didn’t notice anything.

On the vinyl v CV v streaming debate: My own view is that I generally prefer vinyl although probably not because it’s better and/or more accurate but just because I prefer the sound (which is all that really matters to me). In my systems the turntables tend to be better (as in more expensive anyway!) than the CD players which could be a factor I suppose.

The streamer v CD thing is tougher though. Initially I wasn’t that impressed with the sound quality from streamed output for anything other than background listening. When I stopped using iTunes and instead ripped my CD’s again to a lossless format and introduced a DAC into the system the gap narrowed very significantly. I’d still say I prefer my best CD player (a Naim one) over the streamed output but I’d say it was at least a match for the other CD players I’ve got. Given the DAC I’m using was something like £30-40 (it’s the Maplin one which looks very plasticy but sounds pretty good) that’s a pretty good result. Quite possibly with a better DAC I’d prefer the streamed output to the Naim player as well. I certainly found that I was using the CD player a lot less once I had the streaming solution with the DAC in-place.

I don’t have a streaming set-up in my London place yet but there I also find I don’t listen to CD’s much, instead using vinyl almost exclusively.

I prefer the sound of my streamed Sonos through my DAC to my CD player.

In fact, if it wasn’t for the wife not being able to master the Sonos interface I would sell it.

In all of my my years in hifi I have never heard a decent turntable and I find it quite frustrating not to be able to join into the digital vs analogue debate, grrr….

Oh I’ve heard plenty of “decent” turntables. I have one. A Linn LP12/Ittok. I’ve yet to hear an “accurate” one though.

It’s amazing how different peoples perceptions of what they hear differ (in a musical sense).

It also makes me a little sad when people say they haven’t heard a quality TT set up. Through a good phono stage, with a quality source, vinyl sounds so lovely. To me, it does have an inherent warmth that is so often spoken of, but also, when I sit back and pick out all of the subtle details hidden deep in the groove, I’m genuinely amazed that a plastic disc with a needle being dragged through it can sound quite so brilliant.

I should add that I have a very limited understanding of sound quality and these are only observations based on my ear. Vinyl can never be accused of being a convenient source, and I’m sure a fairly large percentage of enjoyment for most listeners of vinyl is it’s nostalgic and tactile nature.

I’m realistic about vinyl’s abilities it isn’t as capable of deep bass, I’d also argue it’s not as dynamic as digital can be. On the other hand I for some reason just find vinyl more satisfying.

A record deck suffers from far worse crosstalk than a CD, much more compression, and also distortion from the needle only tracking squarely in the groove during a very small proportion of its travel through the grooves.

However it is the compression and the higher crosstalk that probably makes vinyl sound better in some cases.

Noel Keywood from one of the hifi mags made a device, called a Frankestein or similar, that introduced some more crosstalk on a CD players output and that seemed to get some approval, but not enough for the product to remain on sale for long.

People also rave about the quality of live radio 3 broadcasts on VHF, but that was a digital signal before transmission, and only 14 bits at that.

I would love to know what the rewire on your arm actually translates to in terms of performance. Almost certainly not a £400 improvement leap (in relative terms). But it must sound better than standard, right

No idea, but it looks a lot nicer than a standard RB300 arm wire and interconnect. The wires through the arm are incredibly fine. The interconnects are as fat as your finger!

Clear audio sixstream is a silly price too. Someone’s lost a packet on it. (Hopefully not me)

It is pretty extraordinary what was ultimately achieved using vinyl given the obvious limitations – before it was completely outclassed by CD.

Adding crosstalk to a CD may well make them sound more like LPs which will appeal to those who prefer analogue, though to do the job properly you would need reduce the dynamic range and frequency response too, then add a dusting of distortion. That is the combination that gives vinyl its characteristic warm, cosy sound.

As for Radio 3 – 14 bits would give as much dynamic range as vinyl.

Right, we all enjoy nice rounded curves in our music whilst yours does steps of those curves trying to mimic them, but ultimately missing small chunks out. It’s that bit between the right angle of your step and our arc we think you are missing.

You just don’t realise it.

It is pretty extraordinary what was ultimately achieved using vinyl given the obvious limitations – before it was completely outclassed by CD

I don’t think this is right and nor do most audio bods with better systems than either of us..

Noel Keywood from one of the hifi mags made a device, called a Frankestein or similar, that introduced some more crosstalk on a CD players output and that seemed to get some approval, but not enough for the product to remain on sale for long.

One of my CD players sports a valve output stage, the whole point of which is to make it more analogue sounding. It works quite well as I enjoy the sound – although unfortunately like other valve kit I’ve owned it’s a bit temperamental.

Anyone got a recommendation for somewhere in London to get valve kit fixed? As well as the CD player my beloved Audio Note valve amp is also playing up at the moment.

I don’t think this is right and nor do most audio bods with better systems than either of us.

I don’t think vinyl was ever outclassed and whether you felt it was bettered by CD is really down to personal preference. For example my best CD players is a Naim one and my best turntable is a Linn LP12. Is the Naim player more accurate than the LP12 and with a better dynamic range – definitely (although I don’t think Naim players really aim for accuracty). Do I prefer the sound of the Naim player to the LP12 – no (although I enjoy both).

If you measures their performance based on frequency graphs etc. then maybe the CD player would outclass the turntable – but not when you measure then using your ears!

Right, we all enjoy nice rounded curves in our music whilst yours does steps of those curves trying to mimic them, but ultimately missing small chunks out. It’s that bit between the right angle of your step and our arc we think you are missing.

Yes the common misrepresentation of quantisation.

whether you felt it was bettered by CD is really down to personal preference

I wouldn’t argue with that.

If you measures their performance based on frequency graphs etc. then maybe the CD player would outclass the turntable – but not when you measure then using your ears!

I don’t use any measurement devices. I listen to music.

I don’t think this is right and nor do most audio bods with better systems than either of us.

So clearly I’m not an audio bod. I just enjoy listening to music. That is predominantly classical and largely in that small scale chamber music. CD certainly seems to reproduce that much better than LP. To my ears of course.