Herpetoculturist – Show me your snakes

I’m with Loddrick, can’t see why you’d want to take any ‘exotic’ creature out of its natural environment and keep it in a cramped glass cage. Without a heat source it would probably die too. They also require morbid food sources.
That goes for gerbils, rats, fish, etc. All completely unnaturally couped up in cages, going completely against their natural instincts.
There’s an argument to be had for dogs as they’ve been bred in close captivity for thousands of years – plus have the character traits mentioned earlier, cats are charming at times but I’m not a huge fan as I don’t like to see the local bird populations decimated for kicks.
I used to avidly keep fish and am still fascinated by them, but rather than all the expense and time keeping them safe in a micro-environment I struggled to justify their captivity after a few years. A bit like a bird in a cage, it’s just plain wrong to deny its flight.
Snakes look good, but just not in a box. seems a hark back to Victorian fascination with controlling the natural world to me. Plus for every snake/creature owned, dozens/hundreds are likely to have died in terrible conditions being smuggled in order to feed this strange fascination.

That green snake is my favourite. Never in a million years thought I’d catch myself saying that. Not so keen on Maria though. Think I’d freak out if one started wraping around me like that. Visions of having my arm broken and eaten!

Slimjim, the same can be said for dogs to be fair. Too often we hear of these dog farms with the poor things being kept in terrible conditions and sold on too young. Also the number of people these days who own dog’s but work silly hours leaving them alone at home all day. The number of professional dog walkers around our way is unreal! I’ve never known so many people owning dogs. Seem a completely unsuitable pet for many of them in my opinion.

These snakes are not out of there natural habitat. These chaps are born and bred in the UK. If a snake was picked up and dumped in what ever country it’s ancesters came from would most likely die (slow painful death) due to having no imunity are hiding, hunting skills for that new enviroment. Smugling snakes into the uk is not as big as the internet implies although it is a deplorable act. More birds and other fur monters are smuggled into the uk and europe.

Rabbits, gerbils, hamsters and dogs as well as a whole host of other animals are technically not in there natural habitat.

If you look after any animal right, it can flourish in any cared for enviroment. I don’t know any keepers who keep the snakes locked up for long periods of time. If you do, you should do something about it.

As for ‘Morbid food sources’ I take it that you are vegan? Snakes it meat, fish, insects. What’s morbid about that. It’s no different as to what humans eat (or cats, dogs, birds etc)

What happend to the fish?

@dj. God’s are beautiful snakes. A little harder to keep and not really one to handle too much (easy to injure) but in my wishlist.

@slimjim – snakes in captivity generally outlive their wild counterparts by some years and most keepers try to mimic the wild environment as much as possible and their animals well cared for.

Life for them is much simpler than in the wild. Snakes want to eat and that’s about it. They only roam to eat. Boas generally don’t even do that. They just hide out and grab whatever passes.

Captivity mimics reality much closer than people think accordingly. The enclosures may look simplistic but all the important features are provided.

Each to their own of course and I can empathise with your point of view but having really researched snake husbandry I can honestly say I do not think it is cruel to keep them.

As for want they eat. Well in the wild they eat the same stuff!

GTP’s not gods. Never tried keeping a God to be honest…

This is my royal, not that recent but in a fairly common pose. Very curious and brightly character.

and a spider

Who is it in here who has the big spider collection? Remember some impressive specimens roper.

Nearly went for a Royal but the boa won me over. Always loved boas, never thought I’d actually get one…

I’d never be allowed to have one, but I find snakes extremely interesting.

I think the most beautiful snake in the world is probably the Gaboon Viper, but I doubt it would make a very good pet.

Keeping hot (ie venomous) snakes is a completely different ball game.

Even with the giant constrictors you have a degree of error generally before something goes wrong and even when it does it can hurt, a lot. You could even lose a limb, hand foot etc but it is very rarely fatal.

With hots, one tiny slip and you could be dead.

I’d love to take my skills to that level but can’t see it ever happening. You can’t be careless, drop you guard, make a mistake – ever.

Of course some idiots keep hots and get away with it but usually not.

I have kept Androctonus bicolor scorpions.

They have a potentially lethal sting, depending on the envenom level and how your body can cope. There is an antivenom available.
These scorpions can not climb smooth surfaces. Mine were kept in a high locked tank, in a tank, within another tank. So three altogether. I always used 30cm tweezer whenever I fed them. Any animal like them have to be looked after with the utmost respect. Taking lots of safe guards for the most basic treatment.
like anything dangerous, you need to understand the risks and your own limitations.

I have the big spider collection dannybgoode.
Snakes do NOT require large enclosures at all. They are mostly ambush predators and being coiled up in a “small box” that is heated in a controlled manner is perfectly fine, in no way cruel to them. Some absolute crap being spouted here by people who know nothing about the keeping of them but hey ho.

@hadge. People on stw having opinions on stuff they know nothing about. **** me – a first for me 😉

Seriously though, couldn’t agree more. If snakes in the wild found a spot where a good sized lunch walked past every couple of weeks without fail (and if into breeding a mate magically appeared every so often) they’d never move.

Indeed the vast proportion of snakes actually get quite stressed out in a large enclosure as they feel too exposed to predators.

Any chance of me spider photos. Feel free to hijack this thread with them.

@roper-that’s a serious scorpion. Just watch some being fed on YouTube. Jesus they have since feeding response. I thought snakes went in quick but bloody hell you’d have to move quick to get out of the way of that tail…

Hadge – whatever you say will never convince me that a heated box in Luton or Grimsby is a ‘natural environment’ for any snake. (Or any other creature for that matter)

Snakes have absolutely no desire to be kept warm in someone’s living room. How often they try/succeed in escaping is testament to this alone. It’s a completely unnatural arrangement, there’s no way it can be said to be so despite how expensive your enclosure is. Yes they may live a long time in captivity, so do humans in prison.
I would extend your interest to, say, a lion. Or perhaps a dolphin. Would you be happy for me to keep a dolphin in complete isolation in a tank in my garden? A big tank no less, with great filtration and heated to the right temperature etc. Just because I find dolphins interesting?

Snakes do NOT require large enclosures at all. They are mostly ambush predators and being coiled up in a “small box” that is heated in a controlled manner is perfectly fine, in no way cruel to them.

– of course, that is pure opinion – and one in which the snake has no chance to disagree. Unless it tries to escape..

Morbid food source – I worked in a large pet shop when I was 16. I sold countless frozen rats and chicks to snake owners. Frozen whilst alive, of which I am almost certain – as I frequently saw freshly born rat pups in the frozen bags.

I am completely comfortable with my opinions and have had friends that kept snakes, plus been around snakes. If that is talking shit then so be it – my conscious is clear, which it wouldn’t be if I kept an exotic animal in captivity.

Dannybgoode – I appreciate the difference in opinion, which is all this merely is. You clearly care for your animals which is the main thing.

Slimjim I have absolutely no desire whatsoever to try convince you in any shape or form. You like have an opinion and you have a level of intelligence just as I. Needless to say I aren’t interested in conversing with you.

Please look on my posts dannybgoode as I posted a heap load of photos of my spiders recently. Hope you enjoy them too and feel free to remark on them as well.

Case, rested

Case rested? Are you struggling for a bit of company or someone to converse with? Find another subject matter and extol them with your virtues. I mean your so right on everything this forum needs people like you pmsl.

This thing used to stay in a glass tank in my old Squadron’s briefing room. It was impressive but I was always glad to be out of the room.

Snakes have absolutely no desire to be kept warm in someone’s living room. How often they try/succeed in escaping is testament to this alone. It’s a completely unnatural arrangement, there’s no way it can be said to be so despite how expensive your enclosure is. Yes they may live a long time in captivity, so do humans in prison.

You must be a quite remarkable person, to know exactly what a reptile feels, needs and desires; I would guess you’re a member of PETA, am I right? They always feel an overwhelming need to lecture others on the rights of animals while not actually understanding anything about animals themselves; imposing human needs and feelings onto what is an alien mindset.
Back to the main subject, there are some exquisite creatures being shown, I’ve always loved reptiles, I used to keep a few slow worms around when I was a kid, lovely little things, never a problem finding slugs and whathaveyou for them, but I’ve never had the space for a proper snake; my desire, if I had the space for it, would be a green tree Python; their colour is fabulous, like a huge jade carving, I love the way they loop themselves around a branch.
One day, maybe, but my circumstances would have to change a fair bit.

@Countzero.

My chaps go back inside when they are bored roaming around. They also go back inside to poop (thank goodness). Snakes are pretty smart and have indipendent thought, never been bitten by my chaps even when blue.

Why do people pick on snakes and not cats, dogs gerbils etc.

Bosc Monitor lives in a 8ft vivarium.Highly intelligent animals and does like affection like a dog. Can find his way from upstairs back to his viv in the front room. Bangs on the glass when he wants out. And does his business in the same corner of his viv.

Nice bosc bwfc. That’s a serious lizard you have (and the snakes). But jealous of your collection!

Snakes escaping is an interesting one. 9/10 if they do escape they poddle off somewhere and then just stay there instead.

My corn got out, couldn’t find her anywhere. Turns out I was looking to far afield. Her viv was on the top of a bookcase and all she had done was slither down to the next shelf and curled up in an even smaller space than her viv and stayed there for 6 weeks until I found her.

Boas for example in the wild don’t go very far from their lair and this is born out when you let them out of their vivs they’ll stay very local.

There you go ….. Iggy, she’s an annery corn snake about 7 years old now I guess. Might give her a Christmas mouse tomorrow.

The bosc is a cool guy. Needed a lot of work to get him tame but he is soft as now. Still has his moments and a bite from him is something I don’t want. I’d be in A&E. Would love a Tegu but no room.

When we first got our Albino Boa he escaped frantically looking round the room when we got up. He had slithered under our pillows. So just goes to show they don’t savage humans without a reason.

Why do people pick on snakes and not cats, dogs gerbils etc.

IMO they are just as alien in a home environment, as said earlier in the thread, with an argument to perhaps be made for domesticated cats/dogs. Gerbils, hamsters etc kept in tiny cages is a completely bizarre practice to me.

Not a PETA member, just empathetic I suppose. I truly understand that snakes are attractive to look at. In fact, I have a particular fondness towards lizards, love the bloody things. But they belong in a hot climate – free to roam. I am not the master of their destiny.
No-one seemed to pick up on the dolphin analogy I see.

Hadge – thanks for you character description. You see, the thing about a forum is that it’s open to opinions. Usually there are differences of opinion. As you can see by actually reading my comments, I disagree with the practice you enjoy but appreciate careful ownership – and indeed I appreciate the creatures. My different opinion seems to have offended you, possibly as I have touched a nerve too close for comfort. Sorry about that Sugar.

CountZero, I’ve worked with reptiles, I’ve been around reptile owners. I’ve kept animals. What else do I need to know to have an opinion that counts?
This boils down to people who want to do something, imposing a mindset that allows them to do that thing guilt free. If you really sat down and thought about the beauty of nature and the bigger picture, you’d probably start to question the reasoning behind keeping exotic creatures in captivity – and how it boils down to wants, rather than needs.

I have no beef with you guys, I just don’t really agree with something you get kicks out of.

CountZero, I’ve worked with reptiles, I’ve been around reptile owners. I’ve kept animals. What else do I need to know to have an opinion that counts?
This boils down to people who want to do something, imposing a mindset that allows them to do that thing guilt free. If you really sat down and thought about the beauty of nature and the bigger picture, you’d probably start to question the reasoning behind keeping exotic creatures in captivity – and how it boils down to wants, rather than needs.

I have no beef with you guys, I just don’t really agree with something you get kicks out of.

But where do “kicks” end and actual physical needs start? These aren’t people, they’re reptiles. You seem very sure that your concerns and their needs are aligned, but are they?

Simple fact is that the reptiles have no choice.

Other factors, they frequently attempt escape. This is their natural instinct. Most owners on here will likely admit to requirement to keep their enclosures very secure. They would also quickly die without close attention to environment.

I draw the line at the the fact they are creatures deserving of a completely natural environment. You possibly(?) draw the line at ‘they are creatures’ , ie, it doesn’t matter – I can do what I want because I am higher up the animal kingdom.
It’s just a different state of mind.

Most of them will die if they escape into the “wild” in the UK coz there is nothing much to eat in addition to the wrong weather. 😛

If you love them then look after them and treat them well.

In Borneo they are all source of protein and I can assure you they taste very nice indeed. Sweet tender meat …

Haha! The voice of reason

Slimjim78 you touched no such nerve. I just laugh at your comments and find your knowing how a reptile thinks as amazing, almost Dr Dolittle like. My reply was pure humour not any touched nerves. By the way, we secure them tight in their teeny weenie enclosure you speak of as NOT to stop the escaping but stopping prying hands getting in. Ask any owner of something like a Retic than can give you a nasty bite but no matter what’s said to you, your minds made up so we will end it with that. Have a good Christmas and move on cupcake.

Snakes Do Live In London’s Camden Lock

Snake manage pretty well in the big outdoors of England.

globalti>> except a small crocodile that was in a filthy manky pond

Reminds me of a zoo that I visited. They only had one animal; a dog, it was Shih Tzu

Hercs our 7ft male Hypo boa and his new Christmas box.

I think there’s no point this thread descending into an argument about the rights and wrongs of keeping reptiles. It’s an argument where neither side is going to conceed.

I and the other keepers are happy that our reptiles are well kept and cared for and that of properly looked after can thrive in captivity. Indeed, well looked after captive animals live far longer than their wild counterparts (even excluding those in the wild that get eaten etc). It’s also the case that reptiles are very good at letting you know if they’re stressed or otherwise in poor condition – they stop eating but a well kept results eats well and shows clear signs of being in good health.

Of course there are some reptiles that are poorly kept but that’s true of cats, dogs, rabbits, gerbils, fish, guinea pigs and children.

Some people don’t like the thought of animals being kept in captivity and that’s a valid opinion also just not one that good keepers are ever going to agree with.

CB 15 female Burmese Python. A bit jumpy with handling but we’ll get there with her.
Freshly shed this morning and hungry. Currently defrosting a small rat for her.

What do you do with the old skin once it’s shed?!

Roll it up in the paper towel and bin it. Leave it a few hours to crisp up though as it’s like a condom when they first shed.
Most of mine poo and we when they shed.

In fact it the ancient Egyptians did use snake skins as condoms.

Bwfc-not hugely in to the morphs but those are two beautiful animals. Need to start working on Mrs Danny on a python of some description. A dwarf retic could be something to aim for.

Normal colours are fine with me so prices aren’t too daft.

A GTP will come first though…

Danny – yeah we only like certain morphs but will always buy a Normal. We have a Common boa she is a knob though, two normal Royals sold all our morphs. A normal Het Albino Burm. The above Burm is a pearl.

She is a bit skittish and hissy with my missus but fine with me. And the common boa strikes and hisses at me but missus can pick her up no problem.

We used to have a cinnamon Royal python and he absolutely hated me I walked passed his viv and he’d hiss. But missus no problem.

Strange but fascinating animals snakes.

teeny weenie enclosure you speak of

I don’t remember saying any such thing, but wouldn’t any ‘enclosure’ by pure definition, be smaller than their natural environment?
Even a vivarium etc as large as a dining room is essentially a miniscule environment compared to their true habitat.

I beg to differ regarding mindsets – indeed – I used to keep animals in captivity, so would argue that I have the open mind whereas you, Hadge, are unwilling to consider an alternative point of view, or even read another opinion properly.