The small Northern mill town we live in has a disused small supermarket building, an application was received to convert it to an Asian wedding venue.
A local residents association was formed to object along with local businesses on the grounds that the initial large number of visitors quoted attending would swamp the small carpark and overspill into the small residential side streets plus a few other minor issues.
It was wholly rejected by local planning and by the independent planning inspector.

The applicant has recently resubmitted an application but has drastically reduced its visitor numbers which was the main refusal by the independent planning inspector.

The applicant has a similar business in Oldham which has generated a large number of complaints from local residents of blocked streets from over spilled car parking, fireworks, noise and general disruption and inconsideration for the neighbours and residents. The business openly advertises weddings with capacity far above their agreed amount so we know that the reapplied reduced numbers is a fudge to get it past planning and that once open the venue will be run at far above capacity.

Anyone have any ideas to help with an objection? We aren’t against development of the building into something that would bring local jobs and business rates to the council but this isn’t it

Fire officer?

The 2 local planning issues I have had to respond to we were advised to respond individually with the key points. Apparently lots of private individual responses have a stronger voice than 1 residents body.

We got the planning overturned, it was an ambitious 14 storey residential block in a quiet residential area. I know, nimbyism….but access was poor and it would hve set a precedent for the area.

Also be aware your responses are published for everyone to see.

Good luck,

Why the emphasis on Asian? sounds bit nimby / racist to me. Would it be OK if it was anglo saxon weddings?

Because it’s for Asian weddings! And to be fair have you ever been to an Asian wedding? They literally invite everyone from the mother in law to the bloke who once found the dog after it was lost on a park 6 years ago!

We’re not bothered what it’s used for – the main issue is large numbers of cars arriving and departing at once. The former (small) supermarket building has the internal capacity but only a small car park for a continual stream of supermarket users.

The number of people per car has also been fudged throughout the application steps, it’s now up to 5 people per car which we know is just not going to happen.

It’s basically that every objection has been countered by fudged figures and that once it’s passed planning and opens that these figures go out of the window to the detriment of local residents as has happened with his other location.

Why the emphasis on Asian? sounds bit nimby / racist to me. Would it be OK if it was anglo saxon weddings?

Because culturally, Asian weddings often have ~1000 people invited, as opposed to the hundred or so you more commonly get for Catholic/Christian/non religious etc weddings in the UK. It’s not an exaggeration to say that the bride’s parents neighbors from 30 years ago’s children are often invited. My mate estimated she had no idea who 70% of the people at hers were, and 20% she only vaguely recognised.

I’m a die hard lentil knitting liberal, but even I can see where the op is coming from. I’d have to be being deliberately argumentative to appear to not get his point.

The last wedding i went to like that, and don’t get me wrong it was a great day and they must have spent a fortune, was for an Asian colleague i’d been friends with when i worked at the same law firm with her…. she had left 6 years prior!

Why the emphasis on Asian? sounds bit nimby / racist to me

I assume tj you are questioning the racism of having a venue just for Asian weddings, I agree with you, to exclude others is racist, everyone should be able to get married there.

“Because it’s for Asian weddings! And to be fair have you ever been to an Asian wedding? They literally invite everyone from the mother in law to the bloke who once found the dog after it was lost on a park 6 years ago!”

I was at a sikh/scottish fusion wedding and it was brilliant, one of the best wedding’s I’ve had the pleasure to go to.

Going by the amount of money lavished on these weddings it could be seen to be a good thing for the local area – dj’s, flowers, decorating, food etc. Learn to play the bangra drums and you could make a mint.

tjagain – yours is the kind of post that makes me wince.

We had this exact thing a few years ago when we lived in Brum. An old/derelict cinema with space for about 15 cars out the front. After the first objections the applicant changed the emphasis of the application from weddings to ‘banqueting’ and suggested everyone would be bussed in on two coaches.

Planners didn’t even give those arguments the time of day and it was rejected because of the severe traffic issues it would have caused.

I would simply base your objection on the access and egress issues as that seems to be something the planners are pretty hot on, rather than the actual usage.

Form an objection committee and lead it with professional advice from someone that knows the planning system, the principal areas for objection for shooting down the application and any subsequent refinements/appeals. This guy is a friend of mine and may be able to help. He’s also from Oldham and now based in Holmfirth so not a million miles away – https://www.ricsfirms.com/office/627158/Robert-Halstead—Chartered-Surveyors-and-Town-Planners

Going by the amount of money lavished on these weddings it could be seen to be a good thing for the local area – dj’s, flowers, decorating, food etc. Learn to play the bangra drums and you could make a mint.

They have their own catering company and contacts that are supplying their other existing venue. There is no local job creation or money being spent locally.

Planners must take account of the Local Plan, or whatever the relevant policy is in your area. Base you objections on the official policies, not on common sense, otherwise they will be dismissed as non-material.

If you can’t get it rejected, try to get conditions attached that will limit the traffic issues; if the conditions are breached you can then ask for enforcement action. The problem is that restricting the number of vehicles parked in public areas isn’t practical, because it would be impossible to prove which were connected with the premises, so restricting the number of people attending might be the only enforceable condition. We objected to a development on the grounds that people would park dangerously, with evidence from existing use that they would park on the double yellows. The planners dismissed that, on the basis that it was somebody else’s job to stop them parking there.

Check how planning approvals are done as it varies; is it by council committee, can it be delegated to the planning officers, can residents speak at meetings, can a Parish or Town Council object?

There was an Asian wedding the day after my friend was married at the same venue oop north in the mid 90’s. The car park looked like a Nissan Stanza dealership by 11am 😂

Objections need to be made based on the local planning law, things like ‘it won’t create jobs’ won’t work and will be thrown out. Multiple letters from a veriaty of people in the area are better than one, however the format of those letters can be the same, your better having one letter based on law than multiple ramblings from numerous nimbys. Personally I would attack the change of use its self first and formost by the sound of it.

The building is going from a retail A1 to (at a guess) A3 food and drink? Are there may other similar shops in the area? You could argue that the supermarket is essential to the town. That would be your best bet, but wouldn’t work if you have another similar supermarket shop / retailer in the village.

Things like parking won’t necessarily stop the application going through as this can be worked around by the applicant.

Get as many people as poss to speak to the parish council and get your points of view over to them.

Has the disused supermarket been unused for some time?

We had this exact thing a few years ago when we lived in Brum. An old/derelict cinema with space for about 15 cars out the front. After the first objections the applicant changed the emphasis of the application from weddings to ‘banqueting’ and suggested everyone would be bussed in on two coaches.

Planners didn’t even give those arguments the time of day and it was rejected because of the severe traffic issues it would have caused.

I would simply base your objection on the access and egress issues as that seems to be something the planners are pretty hot on, rather than the actual usage.

You used to live in Great Barr and i claim my £5. Same thing happened here to a local cinema, the traffic disruption and the general attitude of the guest is appalling.

The building has been unused for a few years now. There are other supermarkets in the town.

The application has been rejected once – the galling thing at this moment is that looks like he can effectively keep fudging/reducing the figures until they are low enough to pass planning. We know the rent and business rates on the building and know it has to be packed to capacity to be viable for him.

🤔 Any flats or residential in the direct area,? Ie over or attached to the building

You used to live in Great Barr and i claim my £5.

£5 please. Kings Heath. 😉

I know where you mean though, used to pass it on the way to my grandparents in Perry Bar.

Any flats or residential in the direct area,? Ie over or attached to the building

No – the building is self contained, the housing is in two small streets opposite and a row of terraces that back onto a proposed car park for the venue

What is the planning reference number and which planning authority is it?

https://publicaccess.rossendale.gov.uk/online-applications/simpleSearchResults.do?action=firstPage

Quick update on this. Despite working with a brilliant Planning company recommended by someone on this thread and all the Councillors unanimously rejecting the application, basically nobody apart from the influential landlord wanted this yet the Planning Inspectorate appealed the application with costs against the local council due to local planning being completely unfit for purpose.

“The Council failed to produce substantive evidence for each reason for
refusal
• The Council has made vague, generalised and inaccurate assertions about
the proposals impact, unsupported by objective analysis”

So don’t bother coming to Rawtenstall once this is open as it will be hell.

Sounds like a case of a Stevie V special 😉

edit: delete, bin said.

Rusty is that down next to the station? Doesn’t seem like a bad location, fair amount of on site parking, they can always go and park in Tescos, that’s always empty. I know what you mean about Asian weddings though, got caught in one leaving home on the way to Waterfoot, chaos and cars everywhere.

Bit surprised Rossendale Council objected, they usually jump when Hurstwoods, B&E Boys etc. say jump.

It all sounds a bit Alf Garnett to me.

Yep – the old Kwik save near ELR. The issue is that the operator has an existing business in Oldham that operates out of a building half the size but for upto 1100 guests. This building is twice as big and originally two applications ago was for 850 people, this subsequently dropped when he realised the 125 parking spaces meant note enough parking.

The Oldham operation generates constant complaints from neighbours some distance away for parking, drag racing and fireworks, flares etc.

RBC permitted it however the councillors unanimously rejected it. RBC appeased Hurstwoods though by doing **** all for the appeal.

RBC doesn’t have it’s shit reputation for nothing.

It all sounds a bit Alf Garnett to me.

I don’t think so, there are some on here that are a bit ‘old school’ but OP wouldn’t be my idea of one of them.

Local wedding venue here can take about 300ish folk, when it’s an Asian wedding, the residential streets are gridlocked with dumped cars for the duration, as the vast majority drive.

I’d imagine that would be an issue.

tjagain – yours is the kind of post that makes me wince.

You are Liam Fox and I claim my £5. FWIW, I think lumping all Asian Weddings into one group is a bit racist – a Thai wedding, an Indian wedding, and Japanese one are all rather different from a Chinese one. That may be the applicant rather than the OP’s stereotyping though.

Whether the OP actually was right to call out the “Asian” character of the weddings rather than just mention the size, there are people who are going to infer that its the culture of the wedding itself you are objecting to – so I would try to avoid referencing the ethnicity in your submission, as generally council officials are liberal left leaning snowflake types (stereotype partly for comic effect). You want them to see your objection as credible and valid not hysteria.

What has the building/area been zoned for? That is the key thing that planners chuck stuff out for in this area. e.g. its zoned for housing you can’t build a supermarket; its zoned for open-space you can’t build houses etc. Presumably its been zoned for retail. Is a wedding venue the same class/zone-type?

Consider what else that venue might become? Its unlikely it will be a supermarket if it is vacant – it presumably wasn’t economical (perhaps because the car park is too small!)…
Personally I’d rather share my neighbourhood with an Asian Wedding specialist than a nightclub, or a “boxing” gym with nefarious underworld links. Round here housing is where the money is – we’d probably rip it down, squeeze 100 flat on there with 5 parking spaces and you’d have a problem every day rather than once a week. If your lobby group are really committed to stopping this site becoming a problem – can they come up with a better plan for it and pitch it to the owner/landlord?

If parking/traffic is the major issue then ask the council what steps it will be taking to mitigate this. e.g. resident parking, traffic wardens, signage, calming etc? Or just cycle past the chaos quietly enjoying other people’s misery.

I do not think the OP is racist. Its just a lazy piece of language / sterotyping. Most of the folk are probably Brits – so ” Catering to people of asian descent” but even then – we have a Sikh temple near us. A fair few weddings. No great issues and perhaps less than the christian church not far away that is always causing parking issues every sunday ( awkward placement of building / parking / traffic lights)

I merely wanted to note the lazy language.

It is actually being branded as an Asian wedding venue, it’s not that the developer is Asian. It’s a shame, a few years ago there was an application for the site to be turned into a Gym / spa complex which the buildings and location would have been perfect for. Council turned it down as they wanted food retail back in it. Since then Aldi & Lidl built new units and ignored the empty one. Rossendale Council has a record of screwing up planning and not supporting good development, bike shop, cafe and training facilities at Lee Quarry being a good example when plans and finance were in place but the council had lost all the documentation from the £4m cleanup of the site and wouldn’t indemnify the potential business which would have gone bust if an unexpected pocket of asbestos, tannery waste or massive lump of reinforced concrete was discovered during building. All of which were possibilities given the sites history.

It is actually being branded as an Asian wedding venue

Fair enough then but thats weird use of language to me.

Fair enough then but thats weird use of language to me.

Yes, it’s almost like the business is racist and would refuse to hold weddings for people who are not of “Asian” decent ??

No idea of the number of guests to the last hybrid-nominally-Hindu wedding I attended… but it was a long long way past “A LOT”

Or just cycle past the chaos quietly enjoying other people’s misery.

I live on one of the adjacent small side streets. It will be our and my dogs misery. Or maybe not – it might well be a nice well managed quiet venue and I’ll have nothing to report………

The operators other venue in Oldham

I think TJ is a closet racist.

how much is the site on sale for? Club together and buy it.