There is a proposal for more 20mph zones in Dunblane. Only small residential roads.
The consultation from roads dept. has been biased it seems.
Our local councillors are actively campaigning against this. e.g.
https://medium.com/@majury1981/alastair-majury-on-dunblane-20-mph-limits-1b47bedc17ed

My view is:
– it’s only a few seconds delay due to the roads not being that long.
– the people who benefit most are our vulnerable – children and elderly. It’s the role of our councillors to stand up for these.
– long term, safer roads and slower traffic can only encourage more waking and cycling, to school, shops, doctor etc. A. Good. Thing.

Anyone care to help me rebuff some of the nonsense in the Marjury link above – I could do with some studies.

Also, council are debating today, vote likely put off. How do I help influence our councillors?

Sussex Police have a poilicy of carrying out no pro-active enforcement of 20mph speed limits – they argue that councils need to create road infrastructure that promotes lower speeds (humps, pinch points etc). If you crash exceeding the posted limit and they can prove it they’ll do you but they won’t set up vans with cameras in a 20 zone to catch people.

So everyone in Brighton now ignores 20mph limits.

I’m not suggesting that you don’t try and get them in place but I wouldn;t expect it to make much difference to how people drive.

There is this:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/20-mph-speed-limits-on-roads

Which kind of ties in with the enforcement issue – the limit is rarely observed.

Nothing I can give you but i believe all estate road should be 20mph. Good luck.

Maybe try to show how drivers don’t adhere to the current 30mph speed limits.

Some good examples in the Netherlands of intelligent traffic calming. Quite side streets get block paving, a low kerb to enter the street, no segregated parking spaces and other stuff. This makes it look like a place where you go slow.

I don’t think the Dutch are any less petrol headed than the Brits. But I think they have an attitude to government that understands the need for government action for the greater good.

“So everyone in Brighton now ignores 20mph limits.”

Yep. I got beeped at before Xmas when riding my MTB down a 20mph limit road, fast enough that I’d just set off one of those “you’re going over 20mph” warning signs, because the car behind wanted me to get out of the way so it could go even faster. And about a year before that the same thing uphill on a 50cc scooter – again going at least 20mph but the car driver behind expected to be able to go faster.

They seek to be a complete waste of time, money and effort and result in yet more unsightly distracting signage.

I’m part of a local group who are trying to improve things for pedestrians and cyclists. Unfortunately my involvement is mostly on the fringes and I don’t have much knowledge. There are some people who’ve been very successful at getting things done.

Maybe look them up on Facebook and aske there. SPACE for gosforth. (Safe Pedestrian and Cycling Environment).

Which kind of ties in with the enforcement issue – the limit is rarely observed.

Its made a big difference around here (Bristol). People still speed but now they do 25-30 in a 20 rather than 35-40 in a 30. They’ve effectively been tricked into observing the old speed limit. Actually most drive at or pretty close to the limit and its far more pleasant as a cyclist and a pedestrian. Its even better when driving, easier to pull out of junctions. Its not universal and there are still plenty of idiots so a bit more enforcement would be nice, though

EDIT we had a big review last year. Not sure if the official results are out yet. I found this: http://eprints.uwe.ac.uk/34851/ and we have a dedicated website for the scheme https://www.bristol20mph.co.uk/

Another solution they have done in Germany is to do away with all “give way” signs at junctions meaning nobody has priority so every crossing is treated with extremem care. You really have to crawl through residential areas now.

They’ve effectively been tricked into observing the old speed limit.

This I think is the case.
Any studies to back that up anyone?

Sorry MOAB I don’t have any links to hand but it be worth contacting the charity Brake for advice. Like others, my issue ATM is that existing 20 zones simply aren’t enforced (this is in Tower Hamlets). I think it’s a waste of money to introduce more 20 zones until that changes. Also they reinforce the current attitude of motorists that speed limits are a joke.

Good luck – only 2 comments from reading through link (OP majury etc etc) …

the writer is proposing a more expensive solution in the belief the council won’t fund it.
that’s a full stop – that is their tactic need to work on giving other solutions a go / trial periods

pretty sure the writer is confusing maximum permitted speed and average speeds – an average speed never makes contact with a human body as it has input from stationary nose to tail traffic but max permitted speeds and there “just a bit over” variants do when drivers accelerate to the limit to reclaim journey time

and don’t forget that many people believe 30mph is a safe speed and despite data like this being around those that make decisions (rather than advise) in councils may have not come across this basic stuff…

at 30mph a kid or elderly person that makes a mistake most likely dies.. around 78% probability
at 20mph they have a 90% chance of survival
sorry if covering old ground

Nothing I can give you but i believe all estate road should be 20mph. Good luck.

Maybe try to show how drivers don’t adhere to the current 30mph speed limits.

I’m with this.

Also, buses and lorries should be on lower limits too, the express Glasgow bus that goes through Prestwick to Glasgow is fookin massive, standing at a crossing when it rattles past at 30-35mph gives me the fear.

That Alistair Majury isn’t this guy, is it?
https://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/15294228.Two_new_Tory_councillors_suspended_over_cannibalism_and_anti_Catholic_tweet_claims/?ref=twtrec

Wonder how his sectarianism awareness training went!

He was also caught being somewhat of a w*nk*r, quite literally, with an old Twitter account and online dating account at ‘interesting’ site.
Even better, he is IT consultant who can’t hide his old online behaviour….

Anyway, that’s less of an issue than the 20mph…

Lancashire now has 20 mph in all residential streets, great for us because we campaigned for 30 years in our own street. Some drivers ignore it but most don’t and it gives residents a good reason to pootle along at 20 mph, hopefully discouraging rat-runners from coming down.

I’m part of a local group who are trying to improve things for pedestrians and cyclists. Unfortunately my involvement is mostly on the fringes and I don’t have much knowledge. There are some people who’ve been very successful at getting things done.

Maybe look them up on Facebook and aske there. SPACE for gosforth. (Safe Pedestrian and Cycling Environment).

Good on you jonba. How many death threats have you had so far from people who don’t want to lose their god-given right to park less than 20 yards from their front door/Costa?

I’ve just emailed my local councillors to raise concerns over the almost completely ignored 20mph limit where I live. In my opinion (anecdotally of course), the speed of traffic has actually increased since the 20mph limits went in. I live on a reasonably busy residential road with 3 schools and a playground on it and still people won’t slow down. Even at school drop off time with cars parked on either side and kids everywhere, they still plough through. Grr! If I get no joy from the councillors, I’ll be looking to set up a community speed watch group (though I suspect there’ll be few people who want to help!)

As has been said many times, a 20mph limit means sweet FA without enforcement and there’s either no appetite for that, or no means of funding it.

The obvious thing would just to look at instances of accidents, in places where the 20 limit is in place, if you can show a reduction there(I’ve no idea if this is the case, i’d imagine so).

But surely finding comprehensive info on it actually being safer is the way forward? And pretty hard to argue against.

All for it, so good luck, given proper cycling infrastructure is pie in the sky, anything that brings cars and bikes closer to even speeds the better.

The big problem with the 20 limits, as mention is that they aren’t enforced, and aren’t likely to be, so without the road calming, they are basically voluntary.

I believe that if the majority of the community supports Dunblane residential areas being restricted 20mph, then these should be 20mph zone not limits. That is however more expensive and should only be done after consultation and support from the community.

I’m not seeing the problem here myself.

To spin this the other way, would you trust folk to adhere to a limit as opposed to active speed calming? I wouldn’t considering the frequency I hear “oh it was a Xmph limit for years, what’s the problem”.

Or are you more concerned that the support wouldn’t be there and therefore the whole lot gets thrown out?

So everyone in Brighton now ignores 20mph limits.

This is because the police cannot enforce it, so there’s no point in having it really. Told to me by a police officer who works in Brighton.

I don’t mind certain traffic calming, but when it’s those pillow bumps and pinch points that just add to the risks for cyclists it seems a bit pointless.

The approach of non-segregation/low kerbs, no give way signs etc. has worked well in the local town centre – it’s more pleasant to walk, cycle and drive through now.

Yep non segregation, especially pavements with no kerbs and benches etc with trees inset (still keeping the road the old width byutcreating an optical illusion that it narrows have all been shown to work. As has the removal of give way signs. Its like that round my mother in laws estate in Holland and its lovely.

Back here we have a 20mph high street and its a total waste of signage – literally nobody takes any notice, even driving past the police station!

Non-segregation has made Preston city centre a massively nicer place to be a pedestrian. Still didn’t stop all the moaners in the local paper 🙁 Also seems a lot of the charities for visually impaired don’t like them / shared use bike paths.

One other upside is the newfound fame of the Fishergate Bollard due to his appetite for trashing cars piloted by vacant drivers and subsequently finding himself trashed in unusual places – some classic humour if you’ve got time to trawl through the early stuff:-
https://twitter.com/fishergatebllrd?lang=en