Help an idiot out understanding geometry…

So current bike has the following measurements for geometry –

Seat tube – 470mm
Ett – 655mm
Chainstay – 430mm
Reach – 495mm
Stack – 598mm
Standover – 717mm

I’m looking at bikes whilst on lunch and got to thinking what I’d like to ‘change’ on my current bike.

My saddle is high – about 6 inches higher than my handlebars – if I wanted to reduce this, I think I’d need a larger stack number – would that be right? I’m assuming the reduced height difference would mean I wasn’t quite so bum up, head down so more technical features are likely to feel a bit more enjoyable.

Also Reach – if that reduced by 15mm – what change would that have? Will that aid a wee bit more weight over the front wheel (handy for climbing to help reduce it lifting) and keeping it a bit more planted for cornering.

Chainstay length – an extra 10mm – would that stability? It seems a really small difference.

Top tube is 633mm and appears to be same measurement as the ett, but is 22mm shorter – what will that do? Move the bars closer to me so I won’t be feeling stretched? I don’t feel stretched currently but I do find my weight is more on my hands due to the height difference between saddle and bars.

Basically, I think I might have found a new bike that seems a ‘bargain’ price (based on my dream limit of no limit but almost acceptable if it was real) with an amazing spec for the price.

However, I haven’t been able to check the size – I’m 6′ 1″ and right on the cusp of the medium or the large and I’m thinking large as the figures are closest to my current bike and if my thinking is right then it should have me less over the front with less weight on my hands (as the front end is higher up).

So asking questions to make sure I understand or hope I’m understanding what the figures translate to in terms of on the bike.

Thanks.

Effective top tube plus stem gives a good idea how far the bars are away. If the newer bike is slacker then it might be based in s shorter stem

Stack gives an idea of bar height. But do think about bars etc. My canyon has lots of stack but came with bars with just 5mm rise

Reach gives an idea of how far the bars are away stood up or seated if the seat angle is the same on both bikes. But check both seats posts are the same lay back

It would be same post, and thanks for that info…
Current bike is using 30mm rise bars, so I’d hope there was similar, but would check, certainly same width bars (760mm).

At 6’1 I’d be gobsmacked if you were on a medium?

I’d be concerned about reducing reach by 15mm too. That’s the difference between feeling on rather than in the bike.

At 6’1 I’d be gobsmacked if you were on a medium?

Unless it was a Canyon!

I’d hesitate to say anything without knowing the angles and the BB drop.

Geometry is only one element of how a bike can ride/feel.

My Trek Crocket cyclocross bike had almost the same geometry of my old Croix De fer but rides so much better. Like night and day.

Same as when I changed to swept bars on my Scalpel and Hello Dave, so much better IMO, took some weight off the bars without dramatically changing how they rode.

And recently I swapped the fork on my Hello Dave from an air Pike to a Coil MRP Ribbon. Although almost identical numbers, the Ribbon sits a little lower in it’s travel so has made the bike better at riding up, down and along.

So, essentially I’m saying that if you get a bike that is approximately the right size, you can tweak other elements to get it to fit or ride differently.

It is a canyon – Neuron and current bike is a Bird Aeris 120Lt. Current stem is 35mm long and the Canyon is 50mm so I think the distance from saddle to bat are likely to be very similar, but the Bird might be a quicker/twitchier bar as shorter?

You can raise the bars by fitting a stem with more rise, bars with more rise, or spacers under the stem (you may need a longer steerer on the fork, though). If you do this, the effective reach will be reduced so the bike will feel shorter and you may need a longer stem to get the bars back to where you’re comfortable with.

By effective reach, I mean the horizontal distance from the BB axle to the steering axis at the level of your grips. The stated reach is to the top headset bearing, but this depends on the stack – if you increase the stack, the reach will decrease. Effective reach (to the level of your grips) will give you a better idea how the bike will fit you.

So next daft question, anyone in Forth Valley area got a large Canyon Neuron I could put a leg over please?

I have the older Neuron. I’d buy one again. They even sorted a bearing insert that came loose after 3 years

Rich, this is a useful tool to compare bike geometries: https://www.bike-stats.de/en/. Of course, it still doesn’t explain what the differences mean but it’s a start. I love a good geometry comparison though so happy to explain.

Not interested in a barely used XL Deviate Highlander 140mm frame, are you? At 187cm I personally found it too short feeling:

Seat tube – 4570mm
ETT– 660mm
Chainstay – 440mm (and grows through the travel)
Reach – 499mm
Stack – 641mm
Standover – 745mm

/stealthad

There’s a really good geometry comparison tool somewhere but I can’t find it, can anyone point me to it please?

It lets you load up a bike and then tweak fork length / head angle etc and calculates new values and shows you pictures?

It’s got green and red boxes on it from memory?

I use 99 Spokes for bike to bike comparisons.

Thanks @a11y, that link has helped show the differences (and they look very small) – shorter top tube length and a higher handlebar, so that would probably help stopping me feel like all my weight is on my hands as the height difference between saddle and bars would be less.
Thanks for the offer on the Highlander but I’ll give it a miss. Although I’ve spotted a bike, I need to work out how to afford it, so not looking for more options to mess my head with!

https://geometrygeeks.bike/

This is where I go for quick comparisons of Geo.

I said this on another thread but if you like the bike apart from the grips being too low and far away, a properly high rise bar will make a big difference.

As above, I’d be amazed if you fit a medium. I’m 6′ 2″ and can just about squeeze on a large but buy XL every time now. I’d imagine you fit so far above the bars because you’re taller than the bike was designed for? Could explain the pressure on your palms too?

The one I’m looking for looks like this…

I’ve managed to find a pic of it but not the actual site.

https://bikegeo.muha.cc/

As I keep shouting HIGH RISE BARS into the void…

Cheers! 👍

360′ or 2π radians in a circle.

a radian is the angle when the arc of the angle equals the radius of the angle.

Triangle angles add up to 180′

Opposite angles are equal.

SohCahToa

Tan = Sin/Cos.