Have we done the BAE shipyards yet?

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  • Have we done the BAE shipyards yet?
  • Premier Icon matt_outandabout
    Subscriber

    *searching but not finding*

    Premier Icon scotroutes
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    I haven’t seen anything on here. I thought that was a bit weird given the amount of effort give over to Grangemouth. Not hard to see where it’ll end up though….

    Markie
    Member

    Southern jobs exchanged for Scottish votes… can’t quite see why the Conservatives scuppered themselves, although I guess the ‘Unionist’ part of their name should be a clue – I guess I hadn’t figured they really cared!

    Premier Icon scotroutes
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    See – I was right.

    Premier Icon matt_outandabout
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    Southern jobs exchanged for Scottish votes

    But there are less than 100 jobs in it Scotland vs England….
    The Scottish yards are cheaper to run, have had more investment (so are better equipped) and have two on the same stretch of river.

    Premier Icon matt_outandabout
    Subscriber

    And yes, struck me it was a give up without a fight…

    tinybits
    Member

    But may not be in the uk in a year…

    legend
    Member

    matt_outandabout – Member
    And yes, struck me it was a give up without a fight…

    fight for what? Orders that don’t exist?

    Premier Icon matt_outandabout
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    Agreed- but I thought that the two yards may have had some more protesting/striking/arguments going on.

    Premier Icon Nobeerinthefridge
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    Southern jobs exchanged for Scottish votes… can’t quite see why the Conservatives scuppered themselves, although I guess the ‘Unionist’ part of their name should be a clue – I guess I hadn’t figured they really cared!

    I challenge you to find me someone who will vote for the Tories in Scotland because of this. Nonsense.

    Premier Icon binners
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    The fact they’re saying that no contracts will be signed until after the referendum, tells you everything you need to know

    This might well change the apathy and disinterest in the whole Scottish independence thing though. Now people will realise there are very real implications. And I doubt the Tories will get the reaction this cynical decision was meant to provoke. Again reinforcing the idea that decisions about Scotland are taken for political expediency in Westminster!*

    I note that the insufferably smug, fat-faced one has been noticeable by his absense all day.

    * join everyone else outside the South East on that score!

    deadlydarcy
    Member

    Isn’t he awfully busy trying to find a world economy to which he can aspire since all his previous favourites went tits up binbins?

    Premier Icon teamhurtmore
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    When politicians of ALL parties insist this is a purely commercial decision and in NO WAY a political one, you know exactly who is telling the truth.

    Playing political games with peoples jobs – have we ever heard this before?

    But in the context, and extraordinary one.

    Premier Icon Nobeerinthefridge
    Subscriber

    I note that the insufferably smug, fat-faced one has been noticeable by his absense all day.

    Come now binbins, you love him really, you must do, you’re always talking about him.

    athgray
    Member

    I think he is in China binners. Sad day for 1,800 UK workers and their families.

    Premier Icon scotroutes
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    Nobeerinthefridge wrote:

    Come now binbins, you love him really, you must do, you’re always talking about him.

    Definitely a bit of bromance going on there.

    Premier Icon scotroutes
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    Team Hurtmore wrote:

    Playing political games with peoples jobs – have we ever heard this before?
    But in the context, and extraordinary one.

    THM – has junkyard stolen your logon?

    Premier Icon binners
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    He may be a bloody clever politician. The shrewdest in the uk by a mile! But he’s still a politician, and therefore the lowest form of human life!

    Premier Icon althepal
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    Suprised initially but its a canny move by Westminster.. I know there are some sound business arguments for keeping the Scottish yards open but when you think that their only work comes from defense contracts these days it’s pretty hard to doubt that Westminster didn’t influence the decision. Feel bad for the workers at Portsmouth though.
    I did hear the Scottish Secretary state during an interview quite blatantly that no decision would be made on the new destroyers till after the referendum result.
    Whiffs a bit really- there there, we’ve let you keep both your shipyards open and heres a few patrol vessels to keep you going for a bit but you can forget about the destryers if you vote no..
    I’m pro-independance and know that the Indy campaign are saying at least if we vote yes we’ll deffo need 60 odd vessels to make up a navy (as opposed to possibly getting the new destroyers if we vote no) but I doubt very much that they’ll all be bought and paid for until long after Scotland gets its independence..
    Hmmm.

    bencooper
    Member

    Southern jobs exchanged for Scottish votes…

    So what about the 800 Scottish job losses? Were they exchanged for Scottish votes too? Portsmouth might lose shipbuilding, but it’s keeping the maintenance side, and there are promises to expand that to make up for at least some of the job losses – that won’t be happening in Scotland.

    So please don’t play the Scottish vs English game, because in this game everyone loses.

    Premier Icon teamhurtmore
    Subscriber

    So please don’t play the Scottish vs English game, because in this game everyone loses.

    Agreed Ben, but in this case looks like there will be a lot of losers.

    Scotroutes – no its all me! JY is arguing the toss on yet another religion bashing thread (with one of the greatest lines ever!)

    I did hear the Scottish Secretary state during an interview quite blatantly that no decision would be made on the new destroyers till after the referendum result.

    !!

    Premier Icon althepal
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    http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-24841577
    Suppose its a good thing that the Portsmouth site will be kept open in some form as Ben rightly says..
    Y’know, just in case like..

    Premier Icon Northwind
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    Nobeerinthefridge – Member

    I challenge you to find me someone who will vote for the Tories in Scotland because of this. Nonsense.

    They’re not shooting for tory votes, even the messiah knows the party’s dead and buried north of the border. They’re after No votes. Which is interesting tbh, I’m a Yes voter but I’m pretty much convinced that we’re going to lose. But Westminster clearly isn’t.

    The tightrope they have to walk with this is pretty damn narrow, though. Yes, English people the Clyde is definitely the best place to build them, purely on merit, not for political reasons, fear not. But scottish independence would change that, despite changing nothing but the politics. Hmmmmmmmm.

    At the end of the day I think enough Scottish people remember Trident and Devonport to understand exactly what’s happening here and what to make of the people doing it.

    Premier Icon althepal
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    What was the script with Trident/Devonport then? The fact thst its too dangerous to have armed subs there because of the risk to the population but its ok to have them parked just down the road from Glasgow?

    zokes
    Member

    What was the script with Trident/Devonport then? The fact thst its too dangerous to have armed subs there because of the risk to the population but its ok to have them parked just down the road from Glasgow?

    Personally I think that a nuclear accident might be quite an improvement in Glasgow

    yossarian
    Member

    Potentially great news for Barrow in Furness, the town has had its heart slowly strangled for the last 20 years. Feel for the Portsmouth and Govan workers though.

    Premier Icon althepal
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    Deary me Zokes.. what do you base that on then? (Might as well).
    You dont work for Bae do you?

    zokes
    Member

    Deary me Zokes.. what do you base that on then?

    Humour

    towzer
    Member

    “But scottish independence would change that, despite changing nothing but the politics. Hmmmmmmmm.”

    I’m not quite sure I understand that – it would change it a lot for me as it seems perfectly reasonable that ships for my country to be built using money from my country be built by people in my country.

    From a cost etc perspective it may be best to consider India or China as a build base – ?

    (*however, to be fair I’ve not yet seen a clear, accurate, fully detailed, legally binding definitive statement of how the actual ‘resources’ would be divided up) – I think we’re getting the submarines though – aren’t we ?

    piemonster
    Member

    I’m a Yes voter but I’m pretty much convinced that we’re going to lose. But Westminster clearly isn’t.

    🙁

    Agreeing with you on this

    piemonster
    Member

    From a cost etc perspective it may be best to consider India or China as a build base – ?

    The ships might be cheaper, but that would mean no money re entering the UK economy from the build.

    towzer
    Member

    “The ships might be cheaper, but that would mean no money re entering the UK economy from the build.”

    ? isn’t it some peoples plan to not have a UK economy. (*see earlier comment re unclarity on what is actually being proposed)

    Premier Icon scotroutes
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    Only a couple of years ago, the UK government was discussing some sort of arrangement with Turkey to have them build the T26s. We’ve just agreed to have South Korea build navy ships for us.

    winston_dog
    Member

    BAE is a complete joke. Sub standard, over priced and late projects over and over again.

    Do you know the UK taxpayer will cover the cost of the redundancies?

    Why do we keep any of these yards open anymore? We haven’t with any of our other heavy industries?

    We’ve just agreed to have South Korea build navy ships for us.

    UK firms took part in the tender, but the Ministry of Defence (MoD) said none made a final bid to take part.

    That is because nobody has the ability to build a ship of that size efficently anymore and the MoD is a nightmare to do business with.

    Markie
    Member

    I challenge you to find me someone who will vote for the Tories in Scotland because of this. Nonsense.

    I could have been clearer, as per Northwind I meant referendum votes. This was the cause of my surprise – I too had figured that Yes was dead in the water, and didn’t think the Conservatives really cared about the Union (given that they don’t seem to gain any political power from it).

    I also think it’s reasonable that governments look to in-country providers before looking offshore, hence waiting until after the referendum to make the final decision.

    bencooper
    Member

    Indeed – look at the Nimrod fiasco. They ended up each costing more than a space shuttle, and were then scrapped by JCBing the wings off.

    wrecker
    Member

    Whiffs a bit really- there there, we’ve let you keep both your shipyards open and heres a few patrol vessels to keep you going for a bit but you can forget about the destryers if you vote no..

    Why does it whiff?
    Scotland may well be the best and most ideal place to build the new destroyers, however it becomes less so if it’s a foreign country. The UK govt will want to support UK jobs. Nothing wrong with that.

    piemonster
    Member

    scotroutes – Member
    Only a couple of years ago, the UK government was discussing some sort of arrangement with Turkey to have them build the T26s. We’ve just agreed to have South Korea build navy ships for us.

    Massively off topic, you mind if I email you about that Scottish 4000 business? (Once I’ve formulated a rough route)

    You seem to have a lot more knowledge than me on the options for linking the hills.

    winston_dog
    Member

    The fiasco of the Nimrod MRA4 is like something from a Tom Sharpe novel.

    Somebody in the MoD thought it was a good idea and would be cheaper to utilise some old Comet fuselages that were hanging about somewhere than to build completely new aircraft. That was the primary source of the problems.

    The list is almost endless:
    Chinook Mk 3
    SA 80
    T45 destroyer
    Astute Class

    Billions of pounds pissed away to protect “British Jobs”.big business revenues.

    Military Industrial Complex

    konabunny
    Member

    The ships might be cheaper, but that would mean no money re entering the UK economy from the build.

    It would save British taxpayers money by having to spend less in the first place. There’s a slim chance that the blog things would get built on budget because the contractors won’t be able to blackmail the government of the day into “protecting jobs” (chucking more money at the subsidy junkies).

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