Have Halfords killed my car?

Back again with the car woes…

I have a Renault Grand Scenic (petrol, 2011). Second hand but so far so good, it’s been fine.

The battery might be starting to go, 2-3 times over the last 8 months or so it’s gone flat and refused to start. Local guys with a jump start thingy come out and it starts up just fine.

Anyway. It went in to Halfords for an interim service and MOT last week, had to replace 1 tyre, the ball joints & suspension arms (which hurt) but otherwise fine.

A few days later the battery’s gone again… same people come out but this time instead of starting instantly it tries a couple of times and then dies altogether: all dash lights completely dead. We give it a couple of minutes and then try again… after a couple more tries the engine starts, but sounds really rough.
Helper guy drives off and I try to go home – no power! The car sounds awful and won’t get above 20mph. Also the dash lights up with warning messages: the “needs service” light comes back, I also briefly see a message to check the injectors.

The car’s now at home. Called Halfords, they say the battery seemed fine when they checked it, no other comment unless I bring it in again.
Local garage will have a look for £60 or so.

My questions are:
1) Could Halfords have caused this? They weren’t (AFAIK) doing anything too invasive, just a service. Friends are advising to go back with all guns blazing and force them to fix it for free, graaagh, I’m not so sure.
2) Is it the engine or the electronics? In other words, did the battery going flat kill the computer somehow, or are the injectors/engine dying and it’s a massive coincidence to happen at the same time?

I have a OBD reader but a) I’m not sure what to look for and b) if I start the engine to use it I may not be able to start it again tomorrow to get it to the garage, as the battery’s not charged.

Thanks for staying with this unnecessarily long and rambling post 😛

So, the battery has been dodgy for ages ? Modern cars hate dodgy batteries.

Change the battery, leave car disconnected for a while to re-set the ECU. Re-connect new battery and see if it runs. Pop in the reader and see if you get any codes. Also check for loose wires.

Cars will default to limp mode, and a dodgy battery won’t help.

Can you change a battery – if so get it from a motor factors (cheaper).

Has the battery health been checked? Could be something as simple as that.

Definitely needs plugging in and codes being read. Shouldn’t be flagging that it needs a service right after its had one but the injector error is a little more scary potentially. Don’t think even Halfords are to blame for anything here unless they’ve done something really bork-tastic whilst doing the service… surely even they can’t get that wrong?!

8 months with a few failed starts ?  I replaced my wife’s car’s battery (original at 10 years old) on the first occasion it started to play up – I’d somehow flattened the battery in 30 minutes with the radio on whilst in a coastal car park. Fortunately we managed to jump start off another car. Changed battery when home.

Has the battery health been checked?

Yes by Halfords as part of the service, they didn’t see any problems.

As @fossy said, weak/failing batteries can cause all sorts of problems, change the battery and see how it is then.

If it’s still noisy and down on power then I’d be getting the timing checked first, I think they’re a chain driven engine, possibly jumped a tooth or two during the failed starting attempts.

Get it to a trusted local garage to check it out.

Probably not Halfords fault, as these vehicles have horribly unreliable electrics.

I used to own one and I wish I’d heeded my mechanic’s advice to sell when it was first playing up a few years ago.

Renaults have notoriously dodgy electrics. Used to own a Clio that ate batteries.

I’ve had failed injectors and then a skipped timing belt. It all started when the engine was incorrectly jumped started. Whether these were all related I can’t be sure. Thankfully covered on warranty

.. so my totally unproven theory would be the batteries gone flat on the ramps, they’ve jumped it the wrong way round, and now this has happened.

I’d be replacing the battery with one from eurocarparts – a very simple job to do on a car that age, cost about £60 and might fix everything, worst case you’ve got a new battery which you already needed

Or , Halfords have killed the ECU by attempting to jump start it incorrectly and now it won’t hardly run at all.

.. so my totally unproven theory would be the batteries gone flat on the ramps, they’ve jumped it the wrong way round, and now this has happened.

Or , Halfords have killed the ECU by attempting to jump start it incorrectly and now it won’t hardly run at all.

If that was the case, it would not have ran fine for a few days. It would most likely never have even started again.

Just to be clear, Halfords didn’t jump start it (to my knowledge).

The battery went flat by the side of the road after I’d parked up for a while, a local volunteer group came and jumped it with a battery powered thing (not car-car). They do this all the time and know what they’re about.

Whats this incorrect jump starting? How do you do that? (or more accurately not do it)

Yes by Halfords as part of the service, they didn’t see any problems.

That’s not saying much. “Battery health check” could just be putting a meter over the terminals and seeing what comes out. A proper health check is a bit more involved.

8 months with a few failed starts ?  I replaced my wife’s car’s battery (original at 10 years old) on the first occasion it started to play up

I usually go two failures to start, then a new battery. Jump starts don’t do your electrics much good either way!

Whats this incorrect jump starting? How do you do that? (or more accurately not do it)

On modern cars, don’t connect the black negative lead on either vehicle to the battery, connect to a good earth instead.There is usually a metal post or strip by the terminal for this purpose. Otherwise sensitive electronics can be damaged.

Could be anything. Iffy ignition switch, iffy loom etc.
Assuming the battery is good or you replace it and still have issues, I’d start by checking for a current drain with the ignition off.

I’d also check the voltage at the battery with the engine running then switch on all the lights, heated window etc and see if the alternator/wiring can support it.
I’d check and grease all connections to battery, alternator and starter motor.

I’ve had battery issues before which turned out to be the main connector on the starter motor, the ring crimp needed cleaning and bolting up tight.

as others have said, start by fitting a new battery , really you should have fitted one after it failed to turn the engine over the very first time – modern electronics hate failing batteries – an unhealthy battery can trigger all sorts of erroneous fault codes , rough running etc – I reckon your issues are just due to a duff battery (regardless of what halfords said about its health).

Cant see how halfords could have caused this – whatever ‘it’ is.

On modern cars, don’t connect the black negative lead on either vehicle to the battery, connect to a good earth instead.There is usually a metal post or strip by the terminal for this purpose. Otherwise sensitive electronics can be damaged.

I’ve heard this, but I’m not convinced by the physics of it. The battery earth strap is normally substantial enough to carry all the current your jump pack will provide, so surely there’s no difference whether you connect it to the terminal or the bodywork?

On modern cars, don’t connect the black negative lead on either vehicle to the battery, connect to a good earth instead.There is usually a metal post or strip by the terminal for this purpose. Otherwise sensitive electronics can be damaged.

There are two main reasons you should use an earth point, and not directly onto the battery.

First is if the battery has been gassing, then a spark in that area can cause an explosion.

Second is that should you put the positive jump lead onto the negative battery post or an earth point, you only short circuit the jump leads if you try connecting the second/negative one to an earth point. If you were to cross the leads directly onto the battery, then you risk reverse polarising the flat battery. If you reverse polarise a vehicle battery, then lots of usually very expensive things can get damaged very quickly.

Is the alternator giving the correct output ?

If the battery is the original one, then it its highly likely that its kaput.

Alarm batteries can fail and they can drain the main battery. A good auto electrician will be able to check for excess current draw.

Also make sure that interior lights are off when its locked.

Halfords car service you say… no thanks. :-O

https://amp.theguardian.com/money/2024/apr/13/halfords-service-car-owner-alfa-romeo-insurance

A mate did similar to a customers M3, driving like a cock. Wrapped it round a large oak tree.  Ended up in hospital and with a driving ban.

That was a well known BMW main dealer…

That was in about 1993 or 4. He still works for BMW now. Though, not in the workshop at a dealers.

@bennyboy1 If they went for a joyride in my old thing they probably got bored and gave up long before reaching dangerous speeds 😂

The local garage rang me lunchtime and said bring it round now, they have a slot free.

So I started it up… and it’s fine. Completely normal, except the “needs service” light & message shows.

I took it to the garage anyway to see what they said, they told me to go away. No point investigating if there’s no noise or anything to track down. Come back if it plays up again.

So that’s that, I guess. Weird. Definitely time for a new battery!

Winner!

Glad to hear it’s working now.

Not wanting to be negative, but if I were in your position I’d sell it while it’s working and buy something like a Toyota or Honda instead.

A Toyota would be great, everyone around these parts (large families) seems to have a Toyota Estima which have a good reputation but they seem to start at around £3.5k and we bought this for 1.8k, so it’s staying for now! We all fit, just about, so it’ll do.

This summer it’s got to do a trip to the Highlands and back, a few years ago our previous car (same thing in diesel flavour) died on a trip to Dumfries so here’s hoping it holds out 😅

Crack out the ODBC reader and reset the service light AND get that new battery. There is also usually a way of resetting the service light through the menu’s or ‘secret squirrel’ methods (usually found via googling).

Given it’s a Renault, it’ll be a Service Vehicle Now message, which means there’s a fault, not that the vehicle needs serviced.

Chances are the flat battery disrupted module comms, which would trigger various fault codes. Being left switched off will have allowed everything to shut down, then power up as expected and start working normally again.

1) Never take a car to Halfords for anything more than bits and bobs, never let them actually touch it. 2) Take the car to a reputable dealer or independent, preferably one recommended by someone who you trust.

Following rule 2), get them to put a magic box on and check, and if possible clear all the errors showing on the engine management system. And 3) have a new battery fitted, if they don’t suggest it first.

I had to deal with a great many cars with flat batteries, some ended up completely bricked by just having the battery go flat, others needed the battery replaced, followed by the management system given a thorough cleaning of all the errors.

Some of those cars were actually brand new! Peugeot 208’s by far the worst culprits, it was very tedious.

Not wanting to be negative, but if I were in your position I’d sell it while it’s working and buy something like a Toyota or Honda instead.

Did you miss the bit where he said he’d already had it ‘jumped’ a few times?

He’d no doubt treat another manufacturers car the same way.

Crack out the ODBC reader

Are you an IT-ist by any chance? 🙂

Chances are the flat battery disrupted module comms, which would trigger various fault codes. Being left switched off will have allowed everything to shut down, then power up as expected and start working normally again.

Modern car equivalent of Ctrl/Alt/Delete. Some bits might need a mild recalibration, which might explain the service light. My electric windows wouldn’t close properly after a battery change

“I have a Renault Scenic”.

It is the electrics.

If the battery is as old as the car and you’ve had starting problems I’d replace it.

Halfords 🤔

Ok, ok, I’ll not use Halfords, apparently they even kill non-existent cats, I repent!

Not a clue how old the battery is. I assume there’s no real way to tell if it’s the original? Not that it matters at this point. New one incoming soon.

Looking in the code reader I see a bunch of errors which all appear to be related to the battery, very old or very minor.

After the new battery’s in, do I chance causing any issues by just clearing everything? Or better leave well alone if I don’t properly know what I’m doing? I have a bluetooth OBD reader (decent brand) and the pyclip app, which apparently is a copy of the genuine Renault canclip software (did not realise it was possibly cloned/cracked software until after installing, btw, don’t shoot me please).

There is also usually a way of resetting the service light through the menu’s or ‘secret squirrel’ methods (usually found via googling)

Thank you. Couldn’t find anything relevant in the reader and saw your comment so googled – it’s just a simple reset like the trip computer!

Did you miss the bit where he said he’d already had it ‘jumped’ a few times?

He’d no doubt treat another manufacturers car the same way.

Due to lack of knowledge… very sorry. Did not realise that jump starting was considered mistreating the car and think I’m quite good at looking after it in general, ‘cept with electrical stuff.

If replacing the battery doesn’t sort it then you may have a dodgy earth — I had the same thing happen with my Defender.

“After the new battery’s in, do I chance causing any issues by just clearing everything?”

I’m not an expert but I watch a lot of Salvage Rebuilds UK on YouTube…they plug the reader in, clear the codes, and then see if they come back. They say that a dodgy battery will throw up all sorts of weird codes, and that a proper battery will fix many of them.

 I assume there’s no real way to tell if it’s the original?

Depends on Renaults systems, and the battery suppliers systems, but a lot have either serial or batch number sticker which may have a date. Or, some simply have a month/year code embossed into the top somewhere.

Though as it’s a 13 year old car, and it’s a Renault, it could feasibly be on it’s second or even third battery.

My Nissan is on it’s 3rd battery. Original lasted a long time, a ‘no-name’ replacement not so, then on a decent ‘Duracel’ branded battery now (PP3 anyone ? LOL).  The Mrs Nissan battery lasted about 12 years – it wasn’t quite as ‘lively’ on start up over winter, but was fine, but the failure when the radio was on for 30 minutes was the reason I replaced it, and, most importantly, ear ache relief. The ‘boss’ wasn’t happy.  Battery tests don’t always show issues, but the modern electronics definately don’t like a dodgy battery.

A colleague’s 12 month old Leaf is stranded with a failed 12v battery – it’s a lease and there is a 6-8 week wait for a new boggo 12v battery – she’s not allowed to put one in, it has to be dealer due to the lease terms.