Have bikes got too good to turn a profit?

I agree with many of the points above, cost of living has got to be the primary reason bikes aren’t selling

From my side, the constant changing of standards really put me off spending any more on bikes.  Just as I built my chris king and lightbike carbon ‘wheelset for life’ the industry changed the axles sizes.  The need to get a new hub and rebuild that wheel is one of the primary reasons I’m still riding my old scale, well that and I like it.  I’m now fix on fail with my kit.  Plus with family, age and injury I’m riding a good deal less than 5 years ago when my last new bike was bought (spark 900)

I also hate trying to sell stuff second hand, for whatever reason it all seems to be much much more hassle and difficulty than it used to be when I just chucked stuff on ebay.  I seem to attract a constant stream of scammers.  If more brands / shops did part exchanges I’d be much more likely to change

That said I’ve just seen those deals on epics!

I’ve got a Bird Zero29 (which I got second hand in 2019, think its about 2017 originally) and a 2021 5010v4.

The Bird is still “current”, you can go and buy a new one right now. As a hardcore hardtail, its still on the cutting edge of geometry really. Honestly not sure how long I’ll keep it, but I am fairly sure it will be the last hardtail I ever have. Thats it, it’s the pinnacle of hardtails. Theres nothing for sale right now 7 years after it was released that is a notable improvement over it. And I can’t picture what anyone could do in the future.

The 5010 has a deeply unfashionable front wheel. But as a bike for smiles not stopwatches, there is nothing wrong with that. (£350 lyric ultimates and £17 schwable soft tyres area benefit too).

Geo is suitaby “trail” so I can’t advance on that by buying a newer bike. unless I wanted to go for something more gnar, or more xc race… but that reality hasn’t changed since I bought it – it suits most of my riding.

There’s currently no component that I could upgrade that would leave me stuck (possibly a new BB needed if I changed cranks), everything is modern and compatible with the up to date trends/standards. If something broke, the standard size or one of the standard sizes of a replacement will bolt right on. (just thought, the only thing I’m missing is provision for a bolt on fender on the fork. cable tied marsh guard will have to do).

However:

XC bikes have come on massively in the same time frame. So while that half price epic evo is good, it is notably different (can’t say better or worse without riding it) to the epic8 that has superceded it.

e-bikes if we are counting them, have changed even more.

Gravel seems like a bit of a wild west – they aren’t quite sure what to do with it so there are wildly different approaches. There will either be more sub-categories or some evolutionally dead ends in a few years. Imagine getting stuck with a bike that needs a 40mm suspension fork if the world decides not to do that any more.

I’m still running 26″, as I started doing a lot more road riding as 27.5/29  started to take off, that boat left without me.
I can’t really afford to replace a HT and an FS bike, and they still work and put a smile on my face, however much I’d like to try a LLS 29″ enduro bike.
At some point it’ll be Hobsons choice as I’ll no longer be able to replace the forks (straight steerer) or something critical to keep them running.

In the meantime, they’ll have to do.

Why arent we seeing such good deals on road bikes though?  Admit I’m doing my best not to look as I can’t really afford it, but my road bike is getting relatively old now and it would be nice to have disk brakes, braking on carbon rims is an interesting experience if you ever get caught in the rain

Generally its hard to buy a bad bike these days. So there is less emphasis on buying the latest and greatest, as quite often its barely any different to the current crop.

Whilst there are many standards, i feel like they have settled slightly. For me, there are some bikes i wont buy, due to a certain standard. Pivot for example. I dont want superboost. Or anything with headset routed cables. And i dont want a mullet. Much of which is borne out of mostly buying frames and transferring parts. The last thing i want to do is buy expensive parts, such as wheels, to fit a new frame. But i am happy to change a dropper post diameter, if it was the only ‘major’ change. So manufacturers are potentially losing a sale from me, but equally i am sure there are many who want those things, so it all levels out.

I just purchased a Raaw. Will it do anything more than my current big bike…. nope, but its been a dream bike for a while, so took the plunge. But, in theory, this thing could and should last me forever. Otherwise there is nothing really that peaks my interest. And when something does, like the new Norco Sight, i soon write it off as i dont want the extra hassle of a high pivot and all that jazz.

Whilst i feel sorry for anyone working for a brand that is going under, i equally think its no bad thing, its a very saturated market. And the greed of Covid is catching up. Hopefully the Model Year cycle will die a death. a colour change every 12 months isnt required.

Generally its hard to buy a bad bike these days.

Someone always says this and I maintain that it’s not the case. I’ve done enough years in the bike trade to know that shop floors are full of ill conceived, poorly constructed, future landfill. Too many engineers trying to out-clever each other and too many accountants insisting that the metal bits should be made with plastic.

All of the big manufacturers are willing to sell you shit and tell you it’s sugar.

When manufacturers started bringing out silly money bikes, I thought this was ok because the sensible big money bikes were still just as good, but these superbikes were just another layer on top. Like, your top of the range bike is a nice carbon job at £4k, but then you bring out a ridiculously tricked out one and charge £8k for it, to fleece really rich people who don’t care how much they spend, and make a fat profit.

The problem is that the £4k one is now no longer top of the range, so it makes people think that they’re paying £4k for a mid range bike and they now need £8k for top of the range, which is too much and it probably puts people off.  Even though £4k is just as good as it was before £8k came out.  On this forum, everyone is complaining about how expensive bikes have become, when in fact the same level of bling and performance is much cheaper than it was ten or twenty years ago.  For example, when I replaced a load of bikes on an insurance claim in 2007, I built an absolutely top end bling XC race bike for £3.3k; at the time a decent low end MTB was about £800, so a 400% spread across the market. Now you can get a decent MTB for £1,000 but a top end super bling race bike like the Scott Spark is a staggering £15,000.  Mentally, we think that our £4k is not buying much, when it really is, and that takes the shine off for a lot of people, particularly in such a subjective market.

“e-bikes if we are counting them, have changed even more.”

But have they? I got my Levo in 2018. One could argue for a slightly slacker head angle and slightly steeper seat angle but at 65 and 76 deg, plus the stability of the battery and motor weight and long chainstays, and the climbing ability of long chainstays, it’s hard to make arguments for a new bike based on “better” geometry (and the degree or two change and bit of extra reach for gnarlier trails may be less good the rest of the time).

I don’t think the new motors are much different. And the batteries likewise. Suspension works well. All the other stuff is good too. Fingers crossed it keeps working!

That must be driving sales surely?  Maybe the situation would be even worse without ebikes?

Maybe it’d be better – Bosch wouldn’t be so influential and brands wouldn’t be sinking so much money into stock and service/warranty support (bikes that have an RRP of £6k Vs equivalent non-e MTB at an RRP of £4k or so and the average return rate on electronics / jet-washed e-bikes).

But more seriously the turnover and GM profits would probably be a bit lower and there would be people who ride MTBs now who wouldn’t have got into it all. Gains overall.

I see most of the technological changes coming with the ebikes. This has made motorbike companies take an interest which could really see some interesting advances in motors, batteries, drivetrain and suspension.

We might end up with a whole bike being made by a single manufacturer like you see in the motor industry.