Exactly, if we have to have a royal family, I’m much more a fan of the understated Danish style:

That’s a princess taking her kids to school.

Cmon, Ben, dont be fooled just because she’s got an expensive niche handbuilt cargo bike! 😉

An understated princess with an understated fur coat and diamond tiara:

Who lives in an understated council house:

The Queen is a Nazi lol

TBF I wasn’t claiming the queen is a nazi, more that she heads up a family who in the 30s had very clear links to the nazis which to this day we still don’t know the whole truth about. The queen is complicit in whatever has happened to keep this information from the public. She could quite easily allow the release of all the documents, letters and other material which implicates her uncle and others in the royal establishment but she chooses not to.

TBF I wasn’t claiming the queen is a nazi

TBF you said : “she’s gone 60 years without the royal family’s support for the nazis ever becoming a major issue?” which is clearly suggesting that the Royal Family are Nazi supporters.

.

we still don’t know the whole truth

Don’t we?

Edward VIII was a Nazi sympathizer …….. I thought everyone knew that?

Don’t we?

We should also consider Phil the Greek’s ties…

The fact is that the Queen’s consort is a born-and-bred Nazi, educated at a Nazi school, and closely related to several high-ranking Nazis. At the time Princess Elizabeth was practicing her Nazi salute, her future husband was attending the Hitler Youth’s Schloss Salem school near Lake Constance, in Germany, whose curriculum featured Nazi “race science”. After a year at Schloss Salem, Philip attended the Gordonstoun school in Scotland, founded by Kurt Hahn, who’d also started Schloss Salem. (Part-Jewish, Hahn had left the Germany for Scotland after falling out with the SS, but he came to support the “centrist” elements of the Nazi Party, and used his position as an adviser to the British Foreign Office to urge an appeasement policy.) Philip and Elizabeth would send all of their children to Hahn’s Gordonstoun school.

Three of Philip’s brothers-in-law were part of a group of German aristocrats who were Anglophiles and Nazis at the same time. Most notably, Philip’s sister Sophie married Prince Christoph of Hesse, who joined the Nazi Party in 1933; he became a colonel in the SS on Himmler’s personal staff, part of a division that was involved in the infamous 30 June to 2 July 1934 murder spree to purge Hitler’s political rivals and opponents called the Night of the Long Knives. Christoph and Sophie named their eldest son, Karl Adolph—Prince Charles’s first cousin—after Hitler.

Philip’s uncle and sponsor, Lord Louis Mountbatten (originally von Battenberg, a branch of the German noble family Hesse), the man who arranged the marriage of the present Queen Elizabeth and Prince Philip, was a central figure in the Nazi-British back channel during the 1930s. Lord Mountbatten maintained secret channels of communication with the British Royals’ Nazi cousins in Germany through much of WWII, via his sister, and Philip’s aunt, Louise, who was the eugenics-supporting crown princess of Sweden.

Kronberg castle, the location of the Royal correspondence that Elizabeth’s parents secretly despatched Anthony Blunt to retrieve after the war, was the home of Philip’s sister Sophie and her SS husband Christoph.

Surely we should all be privy to just what was so important about the papers in Kronberg Castle, which Owen Morshead and Anthony Blunt were sent to recover?

Didn’t he sort of, you know, fight against them in the navy?

So they say… there again, Philip’s relative Prince Bernhard (who happens to have started the Bilderberg Group) seems to have done pretty well on the medals front:

During World War II the German-born prince was part of the London-based Allied war planning councils and saw active service as a Wing Commander (RAF) flying both fighter and bomber planes into combat. He was a Dutch General and Supreme Commander of the Dutch Armed forces, involved in negotiating the terms of surrender of the German Army in the Netherlands.

For proven bravery, leadership and loyalty during his wartime efforts he was appointed a Knight Commander of the Military William Order, the Netherlands’ oldest and highest honour. After the War he was also made Honorary Air Marshal of the RAF by Queen Elizabeth II.

That’s despite being a member of SS intelligence before the war…

While at university, Bernhard joined the Nazi Party. He also enrolled in the Sturmabteilung (SA), which he left in 1934 when he graduated.[4] The Prince later denied that he had belonged to SA, to the Reiter-SS (SS Cavalry Corps), and to the NSKK, but these are well-documented memberships

Now how was it the Nazis were funded again?

The attempt to insinuate he is a Nazi because of his sibling, when he fought against them, is lunacy, even by JHJ standards.

Anyone sit down and watch the TV programme on the BBC about her, her life and the life of the Royal Family “behind the scenes”? I thought it was really nice, quite what I was doing watching it I honesty can’t remember.

However, the programme brought out old films never seen, filmed in part by family members. There were films from back in the 20’s right through to (almost) present day, some really heart warming shots and scenes of a normal family life led. Scenes of kids (Liz’s early childhood, Margret, etc etc.) just playing together, having fun, doing kids stuff like playing on the beach and making sand piles and dancing and prancing around.
Lovely.

I know theres a lot of hate on here for her and her family, but the film was just a really nice representation of a family growing up and doing normal things families do.

Anyway..

The attempt to insinuate he is a Nazi because of his sibling, when he fought against them, is lunacy, even by JHJ standards.

Yep, lunacy…

Thomas McKittrick, an American banker, was president of the BIS. When the United States entered the war in December 1941, McKittrick’s position, the history notes, “became difficult”. But McKittrick managed to keep the bank in business, thanks in part to his friend Allen Dulles, the US spymaster based in Berne. McKittrick was an asset of Dulles, known as Codename 644, and frequently passed him information that he had garnered from Emil Puhl, who was a frequent visitor to Basel and often met McKittrick.

Declassified documents in the American intelligence archives reveal an even more disturbing story. Under an intelligence operation known as the “Harvard Plan”, McKittrick was in contact with Nazi industrialists, working towards what the US documents, dated February 1945, describe as a “close cooperation between the Allied and German business world”.

Thus while Allied soldiers were fighting through Europe, McKittrick was cutting deals to keep the Germany economy strong. This was happening with what the US documents describe as “the full assistance” of the State Department.

You know what I’m pretty certain he’s a bit of a right wing, racist a-hole and I’m also pretty sure there was some secret shoring up of royal positions done with ze Germans should they have won the war.

But unless you’re suggesting that there’s some sort of continuity-nazi party that’s lain dormant waiting until the almost dying breath of its lead members before rising up to consume us all in an apocolyptic facist-o-geddon I really dont see what your point is?

Just expanding on this a bit…

we still don’t know the whole truth

Especially interesting given Prince Bernhard’s ties in the Dutch Monarchy, is this piece, which goes into further detail on how the very people who funded the Nazis and thus caused WW2 went on to launder the money:

Suddenly, all sorts of neutral parties, particularly in Holland, were claiming ownership of various pieces of the Thyssen empire. In his cell, Fritz Thyssen just smiled and waited to be released from prison while members of the Dutch royal family and the Dutch intelligence service reassembled his pre-war holdings for him.

I know theres a lot of hate on here for her and her family,

I’m pretty sure the hate is for the monarchy not the actual people themselves, anyone identifying the queen as the focus of their hate for a silly outdated system probably needs to have a word with themselves. But then there will also be others who have specific disgruntlements with individuals in the royal family for things they have done

but the film was just a really nice representation of a family growing up and doing normal things families do.

well yeah, they are a family aswell. I think some of the stuff David Cameron has done as PM are pretty despicable but I’m sure he loves his family and has something approaching a normal family life and enjoys heartfelt moments with them.

GrahamS – Member
Well for me it is about having a Head of State that can represent us with dignity and diplomacy on the world stage.

well yeah, from what we know, Liz has done a decent job of it, some other members of her family not so much. (even if some of the front page “embarrassments” were just tabloid tattle) How much influence she has had over UK policy we don’t know (and that is a slight worry even for none conspiracyists). She’s the only monarch most of us has ever known, she has made a good effort of a not particularly tricky job*, tho her public broadcasts tend towards the emotionless automaton, how much of that is what her PR men tell her and how much is the UKs expectation of how a monarch acts I dunno, but I’m sure she’s not like that in real life. I seriously doubt her son will do as good a job, he certainly seems to have ideas he wishes to push.

Monarchy is still a crap idea, along with several other daft traditions we have, we have a nice country I’m not sure some of the dafter stuff defines it tho. Apart from people directly employed through monarchy (most of whom would still have a job if we kept the estate but retired the royals themselves) they have very little influence on the UK public’s day to day life. But…… flag wavers gonna wave

THMs trollathon was obviously giving him warm thrill last night, plenty of us bit, but it’s a subject worthy of discussion and as she’s so high profile at the moment it’s worth discussing now, I’m sure she’s not an STW regular so doubt she’ll be upset by some of the more “off” comments made.

*wave, smile, read the odd speech, try not to insult anyone, don’t get caught shagging someone you shouldn’t.

THMs trollathon

Interesting view and definition of trolling but understandable when you consider where you got the idea from.

Start a thread to celebrate a remarkable achievement by a remarkable monarch and woman. Second post, wishes she was dead and plenty of unpleasantness to follow (plus some lovely conspiracy stuff for amusement). People object to insensitivity on other threads about the recently departed and yet show similar lack of taste and sensitivity on here – they will be running out of spray starch at this rate.

Well done, no very well done

flag wavers gonna wave

And lots of them too – must be hard to bear.

Start a thread to celebrate a remarkable achievement by a remarkable monarch and woman

and yet gloated about all those of a more republican bent who commented.

And lots of them too – must be hard to bear.

Like I just said.
But no not really, lots of people believe and enjoy things I don’t see the appeal of, I’m fully aware I’m vastly outnumbered by footballophiles, that doesn’t bother me either, it just irks slightly when it saturates the media. Liz’s Bday hasn’t reached world cup media level so… meh.

thestabiliser – Member

But unless you’re suggesting that there’s some sort of continuity-nazi party

On the moon.

teamhurtmore – Member

And lots of them too – must be hard to bear.

No idea why you’d think that tbh. Some people like bikes, some people like fawning, some people like britain’s got talent, some people like mad conspiracy theories, and none of this is hard to bear.

DOn’t be stupid, that’s just nonsense, theyre under the ice in Greenland

Correct and C4 news relegated it to a side story after the more substantive achievements of a singer. So perspectives differ….

It will be on an odd day when those wendyphiles start singing about the old girl eh?

No idea why you’d think that

I can read NW

Edward VIII was a Nazi sympathizer …….. I thought everyone knew that?

Indeed, what we don’t know is whether those sympathies extended to conspiring with the nazis to ensure the continuity of the monarchy in the event of a nazi victory. That is a much bigger and more important issue, one which the queen herself has the power to release information which could answer this question. She doesn’t though does she?

teamhurtmore – Member

I can read NW

…and you can read into it what you choose, as ever. But really there’s only a post or two in this entire thread that come close to what you suggest. Lots of people unhappy with the monarchy, lots of people not understanding why you’ve decided to put someone above you due to an accident of birth, but nobody finding it hard to bear.

I think it’s a bit sad tbh, but people are weird.

People object to insensitivity on other threads about the recently departed

Do you think, and I am sure it will happen but not from me, that when she dies folk who are mean/disrespectful/daft to her wont get some form of forum reaction? It generally accepted that one is not mean about the dead on a thread about their death. Even I have that level of politeness, if not your mates.

And lots of them too – must be hard to bear.

I have no idea why you have been accused of trolling on here …you ?

This entire thread was just for you to troll I have no idea, seeing as how you dislike your probity being questioned, why you are typing things like that and your opening sentence and denying it.

Being anti-Monarchy is a massive massive vote loser. Alex Salmond is very astute politically and he is very pro the Royal Family. I saw Corbyn made sure (as per hiding his real views on the EU) that he was nothing but complimentary yesterday in Parliament, his non singing of the National Anthem taught him a lesson. Even Ken Livingstone sang the Anthem last night on This Week, second verse as well.

Who’s voting?

So politicians lie about their real feelings to win votes….who knew they were secretly populists 😉

Republicanism is a minority view and is disliked by some and seen as traitorous by the more deferential/traditionalist/royalists.

I have certainly had some interesting exchanges when I refuse to stand for it.

some people like mad conspiracy theories

Some people just do their research…

Expanding a bit further:

As a top Wall Street lawyer with Sullivan & Cromwell, Allen Dulles helped leading U.S. fascist millionaires invest in Germany (through Brown Brothers Harriman) during the 1920s and 1930s. As the chief U.S. spy in Germany in WWII, Dulles recruited top Nazis into the CIA’s post-war crusade against communism*. As lawyer for Rockefeller’s Standard Oil, the Nazi weapons giant I.G. Farben and Thyssen’s Dutch bank, Dulles helped build Hitler’s war machine. With much dirty laundry, Dulles became CIA director and helped Prescott Bush in a cloaking scheme to cover up the Union Bank’s role in laundering Nazi Loot

Bear in mind the guy who wrote that piece, John Loftus, has a high degree of credibility:

As a U.S. Army officer, John Loftus helped train Israelis for a covert operation in the 1973 Yom Kippur War. He resigned his position as a Justice Department prosecutor in 1981 to expose the U.S. recruitment of Nazi war criminals. He is president of the Florida Holocaust Museum.

“The Loftus Report” is his nightly spot on ABC National Radio and “Inside Scoop with John Loftus” airs weekly on Fox TV. As a private attorney, he has helped hundreds of whistle-blowing intel-
ligence agents to declassify and publish hidden secrets.

Especially relevant now:

In August 2002, Loftus and a team of more than 40 lawyers, filed a $1 trillion lawsuit against the Saudi royal family for victims of the September 11 attacks.

It’s fair to say Allen Dulles and his Brother John Foster Dulles are responsible for more deaths than Hitler:

Kinzer highlights John Foster Dulles’s central role in channeling funds from the United States to Nazi Germany in the 1930s. Indeed, his friendship with Hjalmar Schacht, the Reichsbank president and Hitler’s minister of economics, was crucial to the rebuilding of the German economy. Sullivan & Cromwell floated bonds for Krupp A. G., the arms manufacturer, and also worked for I. G. Farben, the chemicals conglomerate that later manufactured Zyklon B, the gas used to murder millions of Jews.

Not only did they set in motion the mechanisms of WW2, but afterward:

By 1953, with Allen Dulles running the C.I.A. and his brother in charge of the State Department, the interventionists’ dreams could come to fruition. Kinzer lists what he calls the “six monsters” that the Dulles brothers believed had to be brought down: Mohammed Mossadegh in Iran, Jacobo Arbenz in Guatemala, Ho Chi Minh in Vietnam, Sukarno in Indonesia, Patrice Lumumba in the Congo and Fidel Castro in Cuba.

But I’m straying a touch… how does all this tie in to the Monarchy?

Well, back to Prince Bernhard for now…

Van der Zijl, however, found a membership card signed by the prince himself on which he reported being a member of the Nazi paramilitary group SA since April 27, 1933. The SA-membership was preceded by an obligatory six month novice membership, which means Bernhard must have applied for membership as early as 1932, a year before the Nazis rose to power, Van der Zijl argues.

Fresh from being a member of SS intelligence, what was his 1st job in 1934?

Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands joined the SS during the early 1930s. He then joined the board of an I.G. subsidiary, Farben Bilder, from which he took the name of his postwar supersecret policy making group, the Bilderbergers. Farben executives played an important role in organizing the Circle of Friends for Heinrich Himmler, although it was initially known as Keppler’s Circle of Friends, Keppler being the chairman of an I.G. subsidiary. His nephew, Fritz J. Kranefuss, was the personal assistant to Heinrich Himmler. Of the forty members of the Circle of Friends, which provided ample funds for Himmler, eight were executives of I.G. Farben or of its subsidiaries.

The dreaded Gestapo, the Nazi police force, was actually built from the worldwide intelligence network which I.G. Farben had maintained since its inception. Herman Schmitz, who had succeeded Carl Bosch as head of I.G., has been personal advisor to chancellor Brüning; when Hitler took over, Schmitz then became his most trusted secret counselor. So well concealed was the association that the press had orders never to photograph them together . Schmitz was named an honourary member of the Reichstag, while his assistant, Carl Krauch, became Göring’s principal advisor in carrying out the Nazis’ Four Year Plan. A business associate, Richard Krebs, later testified before the House Un-American Activities Committee, The I.G. Farbenindustrie, I know from personal experience, was already, in 1934, completely in the hands of the Gestapo.’

This was the international drug and chemical cartel, I.G. Farben. Called a state within a state,” it was created in 1925 as Interessen Gemeinschaft Farbenindustrie Aktien gesellschaft, usually known as I.G. Farben, which simply meant The Cartel”. It had originated in 1904, when the six major chemical companies in Germany began negotiations to form the ultimate cartel, merging Badische Anilin, Bayer, Agfa, Hoechst, Weiler-ter-Meer, and Greisheim-Electron. The guiding spirit, as well as the financing, came from the Rothschilds, who were represented by their German banker, Max Warburg, of M.M. Warburg Company, Hamburg. He later headed the German Secret Service during World War I and was personal financial adviser to the Kaiser. When the Kaiser was overthrown, after losing the war, Max Warburg was not exiled with him to Holland, instead he became the financial adviser to the new government.

It was hardly coincidental that the postwar government of Germany, Allied Military Government, should set up its offices in the magnificent I.G. Farben building. This government was headed by General Lucius Clay, who later became a partner of Lehman Brothers bankers in New York. The Political Division was headed by Robert Murphy, who would preside at the Nüremberg Trials, where he was successful in glossing over the implication of I.G. Farben officials and Baron Kurt von Schröder. Schröder was held a short time in a detention camp and then set free to return to his banking business. The Economic Division was headed by Lewis Douglas, son of the founder of Memorial Cancer center in New York, president of Mutual Life and director of General Motors. Douglas was slated to become U.S. High Commissioner for Germany, but he agreed to step aside in favor of his brother-in-law, John J. McCloy. By an interesting circumstance, Douglas, McCloy and Chancellor Konrad Adenauer of Germany had all married sisters, the daughters of John Zinsser, a partner of J.P. Morgan Company.

Closing for now, don’t forget this bit:

I. G. Farben, the chemicals conglomerate that later manufactured Zyklon B, the gas used to murder millions of Jews.

teamhurtmore – Member

People object to insensitivity on other threads about the recently departed and yet show similar lack of taste and sensitivity on here

Not the Queen too? 2016’s been a bad year!

Not yet NW, not yet. Too many people extolling her to “long reign over us” 😉

Impressed that Ken knew the second verse. I only learned that in the cubs when we promised:

I promise that I will do my best
To do my duty to God and to the Queen
To help other people
And to keep the Cub Scout Law.

Imagine people promising that lot today!! 😉

It generally accepted that one is not mean about the dead on a thread about their death.

Rubbish.

If you don’t want to hear people discussing public figures (alive or dead), don’t discuss public figures on a public message board.

Dont venture onto the Prince thread then KB 😉