https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/gymnastics/61796129

Not just Russia, China and the US then.
Sounds pretty horrific and yet we read

No individual coaches were named in the report, in which Whyte said the scale of emotional abuse was “far larger than British Gymnastics had appreciated”.

Considering the ages at which many gymnasts start training this seems pretty crap to me.

Aside from the abuse, the training on injuries and pushing bodies to do things they aren’t ready for aspects are pretty horrific. This is a problem across sporting and dance disciplines and a lot stems from the fact that was how the coach/teacher was taught and there is no real requirement for CPD training to hold such roles. A lot has changed in understanding of biomechanics yet we are still teaching the same stuff that was breaking people 30 years ago.

Problem might be that competing countries might not have such strong morals and carry on pushing their gymnasts, giving them an edge.
Not comparable but an insight, when I was a young footballer I’m sure we trained excessively at a young age.

Crazy thing is I’d put money on this not actually improving success. Coaches here sound like stormtroopers rather than data driven sport scientists using latest research.

How does not eating or fatiguing / pushing to injury help win medals?

LittleMissMC is a gymnast, her display squad will be one of the groups representing British Gymnastics at Eurogym in Switzerland next month.

It’s more cheerleading than gymnastics that you’d recognise from the Olympics, and the non-competitive, inclusive side of gymnastics.

LittleMissMC is not built like a gymnast – she was described as obese in her end of primary school health check, and she’s the secondary school girls shot put record holder. But she is rock solid at the base of a pyramid of gymnasts and can lift/hold anyone.

We’ve spoken about this report, she’s adamant she’s not heard or seen anything like the abuse discussed, even with the gymnasts who compete nationally at her club in the traditional disciplines. Her coach has a similar “build”, so I’m fairly comfortable her club is a safe space.

It’s a ridiculously tough sport, any sport is at a high level, we’ve got a friend whose lad is in the GB swim squad. But welfare has to be a higher priority

LittleMissMC is a gymnast, her display squad will be one of the groups representing British Gymnastics at Eurogym in Switzerland next month.

Congratulations to her!
Hope she has a great compeition.

Not that surprised, but equal blame needs to be put onto the parents of these young gymnasts as they’re the ones applying as much pressure as the coaches in many instances. The parents control what the girls eat and enforce the strict calorie-controlled diet, what they do outside of lessons, other sports they want to do… everything.

My opinion of it six years ago when I first learned of the problems is that it was tantamount to child abuse and that hasn’t changed. Unfortunately with the parents supporting the coaches nothing can improve. Perhaps this is the nudge needed.

Well said Flaperon – I’d added a bit about diet and deleted it. Daughter is at a show on Saturday, she’ll have a proper packed lunch, sandwiches, crisps, fruit etc, but I know most of the squad will be nibbling on carrot sticks and cucumber, and parents need to be standing up and deal with it.

Don’t get me started on the issues around costumes and serialisation, the German stand with unitards needed more support.

My wife was “encouraged “ by her parents to become a dancer. Missed out on a lot of stuff kids should have been doing at that age as she was either training or not allowed to do it in case she injured herself.
Her relationship with her siblings was seriously affected and she has never forgiven the parents for that. Still effects her mentally and with eating issues some 40 years later

And thanks @eddiebaby – she trains hard but enjoys it, did the World Gymnaestrada in Austria in 2019 and missed out on the last Eurogym when it was cancelled during Covid.

It’s not Olympuc type competitive sport, but seeing your daughter in GB kit makes the room dusty.

She’s also now coaching the junior squad so gets paid for some of it as well.

I coach artistic gymnastics upto regional/national level and on a few occasions I glimpsed some poor behaviour from both other coaches and parents. One incident sticks in my mind when a gymnast fell off the beam at a regional grade event. She was clearly upset, but the coach gave her such a filthy look. At the end of the event, she was in tears with her parents, all I could hear them saying was how you wouldn’t see Olympic gymnasts crying like that. She looked so miserable, it broke my heart. Never saw her again at any other comps. Its an amazing sport, unbelievably demanding physically and mentally, a big part of their ability is trust in the coach.

Replace gymnastics with women’s cycling its the same, in my view though they sport England deny it, this is simply a product of Olympic funding been driven by medal success. This leads to the sports trying to compete for the UK in a global peeing up the wall contest and these kids are just fodder.

If it was down to me I’d pull the lottery funding for athletes and put it all into grassroots sport and to improve the health of the nation rather than fund people’s hobbies. We as country should be comfortable that been nowhere in the Olympic medal table doesn’t matter, if getting up it results in the abuse of children.

@stainypants I more or less agree; elite sport is an almost psychopathic endeavour that shouldn’t receive so much public funding IMHO. OTOH, if you want to win it requires that psychopathic level of commitment. Elite athletes not being allowed to get fat? The outrage! What do people expect?

At the end of the event, she was in tears with her parents, all I could hear them saying was how you wouldn’t see Olympic gymnasts crying like that. She looked so miserable, it broke my heart.

That sounds miserable but it’s also the price of Olympic success; the weak must be weeded out. Sadly, that girl probably now associates sport with misery and failed expectations. OTOH one needs these life lessons.

I taught a girl who was a national champion figure skater and it sounded horrible. Lots of travel and training before school. I used to let her sit up the back of the class and sleep. (At least then she could be awake for other classes). She had cuts on her collar bone from the heel of her skate coming over her shoulder and when she held the toes the heel would slice in. She would do “front back splits, then arch backwards to touch her toes and coaches would apply pressure to her chest. She’d have been 14.
Looking online looks like she quit at 20.

I more or less agree; elite sport is an almost psychopathic endeavour that shouldn’t receive so much public funding IMHO. OTOH, if you want to win it requires that psychopathic level of commitment. Elite athletes not being allowed to get fat? The outrage! What do people expect?

It’s a tricky one and it’s compounded by the complete lack of interest shown by the British public in any sport that isn’t football.

If we decide there’s no more funding for elite level sport then any working class kid can basically kiss goodbye to competing at elite level in any sport except football. Competitive sport will basically become the preserve of people whose parents are rich enough to support them (which, let’s face it, is already the case for a lot of sports).

I’m not sure if getting rid of elite funding is the answer but I think the current model of funding based purely on results shouldn’t continue. They need to take a more holistic view and prioritise long term health of athletes as well.

If your sport is winning medals but the majority of your athletes are physically and mentally broken at the age of 23 then your funding should also be cut.

Replace gymnastics with women’s cycling its the same

Is it any different with males?

My girls used to swim for a local club. They would train two or three nights a week and, although it was a pain for us shuttling them round and sitting at poolside, it was a good thing in that it gave them an interest, taught them some self discipline and kept them fit. BUT it soon became apparent that the whole thing was geared up to them competing in Galas and stepping up to the more Elite sister club. This would have meant training early morning before school and after school then competing in Galas at weekend. All this at a time when they have exams coming up and need rest. And for what? How many kids make it as competitive swimmers? **** that. They started to get looked down on and ignored so they binned it off and it turned them off sport completely. Slow hand clap.

Is it any different with males?

Nope.
I’ve been on the periphery of elite cycling since my teens, still in contact with mates (both male and female) i’ve known since then who went the full distance (Olympics, Grand Tours, Worlds, Track stuff as well) and a few other friends i’ve picked up along the way.

The number of them dealing with substance abuse, issues around food, full on eating disorders and various physiological issues either while in the tail end of their careers, or mostly after retiring is quite horrifying. More than half of them have some issue that they should really speak to someone about, very few of them do. A couple have done very serious (life changing) things to themselves and three are no longer with us.

I’m quite glad i was distinctly average at every sport i’ve done. Or too lazy to take it further. See the example above regarding swimming, 90 minutes at a time, 6 sessions a week, 5 of them before school, as an 11 year old… i was offered that, yeah, i don’t think so.

My Daughter is a ‘Squad’ Gymnast, that just means she represents her club in comps. She’s had trials for Welsh Squad.

I’ve had issues with it since she started, but she enjoys it mostly and she’s super fit and strong (for an 8 year old). I’m usually at odds with my Wife about it, but we compromise. When the times comes and she says “Dad, I’ve had enough, I don’t want to do it anymore” that will be the end of it.

Our Gym is one of the best when it comes to caring for the kids (so I’m told) and the owners are friends of my Wife and SIL. Even so, I can believe everything that’s been said in that report is true. I don’t like the way the industry works (and it is an industry) and I especially don’t like the way Gym owners and coaches are so competitive with each other and willing to use kids to win.

Already, I’ve had to explain, in polite, but very firm terms that my Daughter will not be giving up school time to train, and, if my Daughter decides to quit squad, she won’t have to “throw away all her leotards” (which she adores) and other less than subtle ways they manipulate small kids.

In other Gyms I’ve seen small kids (3 – 5 years) being pushed and stretched for conditioning way past the point they were crying and begging for them to stop, and kids being screamed at because the coached wanted to win.

Honestly, I’d wish she’d done anything else, but my Wife’s whole family were Gymnasts as kids. My SIL is an elite coach in the US, it’s way, way worse over there. Kids under 10 all competing like mad because they’re fighting for College places.

Certainly sport funding should be linked to grass roots participation

Friends of ours have a lad, now 18, who is on the GB squad for the next European championships, and who has held national titles at open water. They’ve done all that sacrifice, moved house to be nearer his training base. He’s a normal, likeable lad who loves his sport, has travelled on the back of it and made friends for life. Somehow they’ve all stayed sane and level headed.

Weirdly the last time we saw each other he was swimming at the same sports venue my daughter was doing gymnastics at, bumped into each other at the cafe

It’s also the same in the dance world, full on sexual and manipulative abuse as well as day to day. Google Ballet West for a more lurid example, a school that threatened the dance forums with legal action right up until the point the principle was arrested.

The day to day abuse is there as well, I have experience of several of the top dance schools directly and indirectly, their sole goal seems to be to destroy the spirit of the dancers, teaching standards and techniques are 20 years out of date. Injury prevention and support after injuries which is vital for long term careers is variable at best.

Royal Ballet also seem to be under some form of investigation by the local authority, there were various scandals at Tring a few years ago and I expect Elmhurst to be called to account at some point.

The number of highly performing students in year 7 that don’t make it to year 13 is horrendous, much of the drop out rate is due to the poor motivational training. The number they kick out after 5 years of training to take on students from overseas or who are home schooled is mental and an effective admission their teaching isn’t up to standard if the kids they’ve trained for 5 years aren’t good enough to enter their own upper school.

I think it’s a combination of the wrong people going into teaching (a good performer isn’t necessarily a good teacher) a complete lack of desire to improve and modernise teaching, a lack of self awareness to the outcomes of their teaching and it being a very competitive small world meaning people don’t complain much.

How many kids make it as competitive swimmers? **** that. They started to get looked down on and ignored so they binned it off and it turned them off sport completely. Slow hand clap.

Swim parent here. Head coach is an arse and I think he actively berates, discourages and/or ignores those he doesn’t like / think ‘good enough’. As parents we think he is emotionally abusive. Attempts to raise a concern with the club are ignored and Swim England appear to be overwhelmed dealing with ‘worse’ issues. I can only hope it’s a generational thing (he’s about 60) and his type die out but it’ll be too late for us.

I think there will be more headlines to come but here’s a recent one:-
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-60232977

Swim England appear to be overwhelmed dealing with ‘worse’ issues.

Are more concerned with arse covering than dealing with the problem. There are no worse problems where safeguarding is concerned. Have done the training and this chap should be reported to NSPCC/Police for bullying if Swim England won’t deal with it.

Google Ballet West for a more lurid example, a school that threatened the dance forums with legal action right up until the point the principle was arrested.

My SIL managed to get her own associate school off the ground off the back of that. I think at the time she was damn near the only person who was running one.

The day to day abuse is there as well, I have experience of several of the top dance schools directly and indirectly, their sole goal seems to be to destroy the spirit of the dancers, teaching standards and techniques are 20 years out of date. Injury prevention and support after injuries which is vital for long term careers is variable at best.

That’s another sore point, she did a Masters in biomechanics and has been self funding for loads of CPD afterwards. She will go to another school, try to correct behaviours and a week later the teacher is back to the same thing. At least she has an in house physio that she sends her kids to.