grrr tubleless

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  • grrr tubleless
  • Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    I’m a tubeless fan, but I wouldn’t do it without proper tubeless rims tbh… Spent far too much time fannying around with my 717s.

    Premier Icon stilltortoise
    Subscriber

    I hear you, and I DO have tubeless rims. Leaking air, torn sidewalls, a faff if and when I want to swap tyres and no discernible advantage. I’ve gone from being quite happy with tyre and tube set up to experimenting – and really not getting on with – tubeless. I hope it gets better but I’m not sure how.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    I’ve only had 2 punctures this year, and one of those was on the one mountain bike that still uses tubes (the other end was tubeless, the tubed end flatted!) That’s the advantage.

    (the other flat was unbeading a 2.5 singleply on a Stans Olympic run at about 5psi, while doing something stupid… Which I guess is another advantage, I wouldn’t get very far with a tube in that setup!)

    Mark, with ghetto tubeless I found the answer was BMX tubes and putting layers of foam tape in the rim well so the beads were tight – that was almost infallible with Bontrager and Specialized tubeless ready tyres. With Stans rims and tape I’ve found Bontrager, Specialized and Continental tubeless ready and UST tyres go up easily but trying to get wire bead single-ply Maxxis tyres up I’ve been ready to kill people – wasted hours and hours with them. Pre-inflation overnight with a tube seems to always help a lot. Cold weather and thus non-pliable beads is disastrous – used a hair dryer to solve that earlier this year.

    micky
    Member

    I only use tubeless rims with tubeless tyres and never had an issue with 2 bikes over a couple of years now. Never tried the ghetto or trying to get lighter non tubeless tyres to work so cant comment on that. I find the maxxis tubeless tyres seal straight away on proper tubeless rims with just a track pump. It’s good to do a bit of reading on the various “how to” guides or videos online as there is a proceedure and things you can do to help the tyres go up initially such as compressing the tyre one side a bit and making sure the rim is spotlessly clean and soaped up etc etc

    Van Halen
    Member

    i dont think i`ve ever wasted as much of my life as i have trying to get tubeless tyres to seal.

    i have such random success with tyres. ive tried tubeless and ghetto, various brands and methods and still I spend bleeding hours at it.

    Im buggered if im going to buy a compressor just to run a tyre so any other ideas? even my ghetto inflator doesnt want to seat my latest combo either (JRA rimstrips suck)

    i think i might sack it in as a shit idea and just slop some latex in a tube…. but then, when it works, its great…

    a most frustrated Mark

    mangatank
    Member

    Picked up a pair of Crank Bros Cobalts for £250, stuck on a pair of Conti Mountain Kings I had lying around (non-tubeless), banged in some Stan’s, inflated with a track pump and that was pretty much it. It was actually easier than fitting an inner tube! They’ve been flawless for months now.

    Van Halen
    Member

    chief,

    ironically i`ve found maxxis single ply generally really easy to inflate ghetto (hr, minion and swampthings). but yesterday i nearly hanged myself after trying to get my larsen (fr version) to seal.

    michelin tubeless tyres were an arse but did go up eventually (and then punctured with jizz everywhere on teh first ride) but bonty went up easy but the treads crap and the non armoured tyres lasted me a week before it ripped.

    the bulge at teh valve on teh JRA rim strip is massive and lets too much air out to get a seal. my BMX tubes seem to have a lot less bulge but my old bmx rim strip also didnt want to work….

    maybe i need to learn to love a higher PSI and run a tube…

    Premier Icon ir_bandito
    Subscriber

    Took me a whiole to get the technique sorted for the frst conversion, but the second one took 15 minutes.

    DT 5.1d rim, Eclipse Tubelesskit rim tape, a new track pump with a decent pressure gauge, homemade lemonande bottle accumulator, Bonty XR4 (not tubeless-ready) tyre and Stans Sealant. Had no problems.

    Premier Icon cloudnine
    Subscriber

    My 4 year old daughter blew up my last tubless tyre with a track pump.. an ardent lust on flows.
    I was gobsmacked at how easy it went.

    perthmtb
    Member

    I’m with mickey and cloudnine on this one – proper UST rims and UST tyres are the way to go. Why anyone would muck about with rim strips, sticky white goo, compressors etc. is beyond me, when there’s a perfectly good system designed from the bottom up to work without all that cr@p – and they don’t ‘burp’ in use either.

    traildog
    Member

    Have you drilled the hole in the rim? This is often required if the bulge by the valve is large. I struggled with rim strips first time round but then got on with them once I worked out what was happening. Much prefer UST rims though. I didn’t like the UST tyres I tried though, very stiff and horrible feeling – the half way house like Specalized or WTB were a much nicer tyre.

    Premier Icon richmtb
    Subscriber

    proper UST rims and UST tyres are the way to go

    +1000

    Shimano UST rims and Schwalbe UST tyres, go up with a track pump.

    Tried Kenda UST as well – also no problems.

    Changing tyres is no harder than with tubes

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    TBH with good rims, most tyres work well- tubeless ready is helpful, UST a bit better still but can restrict your choice and I don’t think the advantage is worth that.

    Premier Icon richmtb
    Subscriber

    UST a bit better still but can restrict your choice and I don’t think the advantage is worth that.

    I like the thicker sidewalls of UST, gives me a bit more confidence that I’m not going to split a tyre.

    I tore a big hole in a Specialized Captain 2Bliss so I’ve stuck with UST since then

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    They do vary though… Like, Specialized Control 2bliss tyres can be quite skinny for the XC ones like the Captain, or quite tough for the beefy ones like the Butcher, it’s not one standardised carcass.

    Or, put it another way, you can choose tough or not tough tyres, whether or not they’re UST. But I take your point, UST in general are tougher than their singleply equivalents.

    Van Halen
    Member

    why do i need to drill the rim? i`d need to drill a sodding massive hole through the inner well to accomodate the JRA bulge!

    anyway after arriving at the garage to a flat in my tube this morning after a hours pootle yesterday i’ve resolved to not be downhearted, pray extra hard to the inflation gods tonight and try teh tried and tested bmx tube option once more (with a fresh tube not a re-used one like yesterday) and if that fails i`ll be depressed and sack it in and buy a heap more tube patches.

    Premier Icon unklehomered
    Subscriber

    Really, you’d run tubeless but not put sealent in? surely you’d still be defeated by tiny thorns etc then?

    perthmtb
    Member

    Really, you’d run tubeless but not put sealent in?

    Yes, run both bikes tubeless now with UST rims and tyres, don’t use sealant, and haven’t had a puncture yet.

    surely you’d still be defeated by tiny thorns etc then?

    Well, proper UST tyres are thicker, which helps, but I’ll also have to admit there’s not many thorns around where I ride…

    Premier Icon cloudnine
    Subscriber

    Puncture imminent for Perthmtb

    creamegg
    Member

    I don’t have tubeless specific rims or tyres but all mine have been easy, zero faff to set up. Takes no longer than using a tube. Maybe I’m lucky with tyre rim combo. Not had a single puncture since converted and would never even consider going back to tubes.

    Wished everyone on our group ride would convert to save on all the hanging about to repair punctures.

    empy
    Member

    Expensive fix, but tubeless rims are the way to go. Im running Bonty XR4s TLR on Stans/tape on one bike and UST on the other – both with sealant. Always used a track pump. No punctures for the last year or so – until this morning on my woodland commute – split the side wall on front and tyre deflated mid way through a couple of doubles. Somehow held it together. Tubed for tonights ride for the first time in ages and I’m worried about punctures…

    Premier Icon stilltortoise
    Subscriber

    What is becoming clear to me since running tubeless is that if you never really suffered from multiple punctures before, the advantages of running tubeless are outweighed by the disadvantages. I can imagine they must be great if they’re set up correctly and your rides are puncture-prone. My tubeless experience has been steadily deflating tyres, topping up sealant, split sidewalls, burping tyres and tyres considerably harder to mount than on non-tubeless rims. It’s possible that in amongst all that my tubeless set up may have saved me from a puncture that I otherwise would have had with tubes. Maybe.

    2hottie
    Member

    I was pinch flatting constantly until I went tubeless most of the guys I ride with run tubeless and none of us have had any issues in the last 6 months. Top up of air once a month and all is good. I’ll not be running tubes ever again. Also I run tubeless wheels and tires, much less hassle by the sounds of it.

    traildog
    Member

    why do i need to drill the rim? i`d need to drill a sodding massive hole through the inner well to accomodate the JRA bulge!

    I have no experience of the JRA rim strips, but Stans recommend drilling the inner rim very slightly wider. The webpage gives details of the size drill they recommend. You can get away without doing this, but I found it fitted much better for drilling. Like I say though, I’ve only ever used Stans.

    Have you got much tape under the rim strip? And are you really stretching it, so that the bulge is spread. There needs to be room for the tyre bead to fit between the bulge and the rim ‘hook’.

    Everyone is saying how great UST is and I agree, but rim strips work, so keep trying.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    stilltortoise – Member

    What is becoming clear to me since running tubeless is that if you never really suffered from multiple punctures before, the advantages of running tubeless are outweighed by the disadvantages.

    Hmm. I wouldn’t agree but then I haven’t really had the issues you describe- I rarely top up sealant between tyre replacement, and I don’t suffer with tyres going down- they need checked occasionally but not often enough to bother me really.

    The big difference is that the faff with tubeless happens when I want it to happen, in the garage, the faff with punctures happens right when it’s really annoying, generally in the rain.

    Premier Icon stilltortoise
    Subscriber

    Northwind, I wish that were the case. Unfortunately not once but TWICE in recent weeks I’ve had a tubeless “puncture”. The first was slow enough that I could stop every 1/2 mile and pump it back up again, the second was as a result of a split sidewall, which meant fitting a tube anyway. Both, coincidently (or not), on the same descent.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    Yeah, I’d not be happy with that either.

    Dickyboy
    Member

    I feel your pain – swapped my “nobby nic tubeless ready split at the thought of a flint” tyres this weekend for some narrower UST tyres & hey presto the ride felt soo much better, popped out for a ride last night & split the rear on a rock hidden by some nettles 👿 I guess i will struggle on but not even gonna bother thinking of converting my non tubeless wheels till I get this beat

    beaker2135
    Member

    I run UST rims and tyres without latex and never had a puncture since. Not worth the hassle of rim tape and latex IMHO. The son-in-law runs Specialized tubeless ready and the latex was bubbling through the tyre sidewall !
    FFS how is that ever going to stay up. It doesn’t BTW

    Premier Icon bigjim
    Subscriber

    I love tubeless and tubes just seem stone age now, would never go back. I’ve had 2 punctures in maybe 3 years of tubeless, one because the sealant had dried up over a few summer months, and one from a tear in a sidewall that even the tube I put in after poked out through anyway.

    The only trouble I’ve had is with schwalbe TL tyres just not popping onto stan’s rims, maxxis, kenda and specialized are completely trouble free.

    Saccades
    Member

    When I first converted to UST tyres and rims I put latex in on the hardtail as it was an Alfine set up and I wanted bulletproof as at the time I wanted to avoid taking the Alfine hub off. I’ve never gotten around to putting it in since, wee bit of a top up of air once a month or so and it’s been fine and it’s 5 years old in november.

    I did have a slow on the non-latexed FS UST set up, so I added some stans and sealed that up ok. That’s it in 3 years.

    Only ever ran Schwalbe and Halo UST tyres on XM819’s, bit of spit and a track pump and the tyre goes on with no bother – I did use a handpump once when I over inflated the rear for a commute to work and it popped off down a hill.

    Only argument for not using UST is the wider variety of tyres at lower prices compared to UST.

    pymwymis
    Member

    American classic rims, Bonty TLR – presto hey ! No problems getting inflated and no punctures since. Very simple, very light, very good. Would never go back to tubes (though I do carry one just in case of major tyre trauma).

    Van Halen
    Member

    UST tyres are HEAVY! sod that. well heavier and i`ve had varying success in terms of durability and punctures while running tubless they seem to no better than bog standard tyres so i dont see the point. The bontrager ARC casings were brill though but they dont make the great big earl tyres any more… the non-arc jones was pish and lasted half a ride.

    i dont normally have loads of flats but i`m getting lazy in my old age. less like a spring lamb through the rough – more of a asthmatic hippo.

    anyhoo seems no one has a foolproof way of defo getting tyres to inflate (though i`ll look into teh foam as thats a good idea but will mean raiding the campervan roof insulation!)

    i`ve had to stop a ride cos the hole wouldnt seal. pissed me right off. i do however pinch flat as i like to ride rough stuff as fast as i can, stairs, drops and other fun/stupid trailside obsticales as they appear.

    if i just did wheels on the ground xc and braked on the downhills i dont think i`d ever puncture bar the odd nail/hawthorn.

    for the person above – thats great, and i`m happy for you, but i want to run a maxxis tyre. or any other brand i buy on a whim.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    Van Halen – Member

    i`ve had to stop a ride cos the hole wouldnt seal. pissed me right off

    You don’t carry a tube?

    Saccades – Member

    Only argument for not using UST is the wider variety of tyres at lower prices compared to UST.

    Well. As long as you’re happy with the weight, anyway- what’s a good UST heavy duty trailbike tyre these days, Rubber Queen at 800g seems to be the best I can do… Quite a bit more than, say, a Butcher Control, and I suspect not as tough going by the sidewalls.

    Van Halen
    Member

    yer you little shitbag. i have prevailed!

    2 pairs of molgrips required to pull the bmx ghetto strip taught at the valve. must go buy some more as i had to borrow a set from the bloke opposite.

    to get this one wheel tubeless its cost me:

    -1/2 a bottle of stans (and i probably need to buy more to top up lost jizz). £6
    -a bmx tube £4
    -JRA strips £16 (not actually used as they dont work)
    -1 normal tube to replace the one that punctured (it was old and mostly patch) only to succumb to a hawthorn on the way home… £4.50
    -2 park patches.
    -at least 4 hours of being hugely frustrated.
    -and a skipload of calories pumping my track pump like a bastrd.

    over £30. the bugger better stay up or i will well… put the shiney tube in with a patch on i suppose.

    anyway its over for another 6 months. hopefully…

    You don’t carry a tube?

    to my eternal shame i forgot. imagine my face as i opened my pack to realise i have all teh other paraphenalia to fix a tube puncture but no tube. i will go the garden and flog myself with nettles as pennance for my absentmindedness.

    Superficial
    Member

    Having done tubeless the easy way with tubeless rims (Flows) and tyres (Schwalbe tubeless ready), I thought I’d try it the cheap way on my other bike.

    Bog-standard rims (DT 420sl) with a knackered old high roller single ply. One of joe’s tubeless rimstrips (£16/pair), plus a splash of Stan’s fluid I already had. Up first time and holding strong. Marvellous!

    Don’t piss about with track pumps alone though. If you’re going to experiment with tubeless (it is, after all, still a matter of experimenting) then you need a (ghetto) compressor. So amazingly useful.

    Van Halen
    Member

    thats whats so frustrating some times you dont break sweat other times you consider giving up on life.

    i have a ghetto inflator. even that didnt work on my latest attempt.

    i`ll ride over some glass tomorrow. i bloody know it.

    Premier Icon stilltortoise
    Subscriber

    Well, had another great tubeless irritation today. I managed to partially tear a knobble off my tyre, which the sealant struggled to seal so I had to put a tube in. That’s both front and rear “tubeless” tyres with tubes in now. Is it just me? This tubeless malarky is a faff and a half that’s for sure.

    Van Halen
    Member

    It is a pain. I think my tyre is leeching out the water from the stans. I defo need to top it up but I’m buggered if I can face the aggro. Got car valves. How effective is it to get Goo through the valve’s. With core removed o course. Any tips?

    That said reading jared graves’ trail diary he uses bmx ghetto. So if its good enough for him…

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