Giant pull the pin on 26"…

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  • Giant pull the pin on 26"…
  • Premier Icon Cheezpleez
    Subscriber

    If 650B is the new 26 then I’m putting my money on a new niche wheel size that’s slightly bigger than 29. just need to chew over sizes with my marketing friends. I’ll be on Kickstarter if anyone needs me

    Premier Icon teamhurtmore
    Subscriber

    Andypaul – that really is the message after basically 1-2 seasons (1 for the trance) and that is what is annoying.

    Zokes +1 with the caveat that the new bikes do look nice! The trance 2 in stealth black. I wish giant would let you chose the frame colour and then spec accordingly. The 1s tend to be in goppy colours IMO. The new anthem 3 in red, black and white looks nicer than the 1 and 2 IMO!

    The Trance SX looks like a nice bike too (despite the copper colour)

    mduncombe
    Member

    check this out for some marketing / science / spiel, there is also the 27.5 giant range shown too

    http://www.giant-bicycles.com/showcase/anthem-27-5/#customtechpage

    It’s all relative though, looking at that webpage all of the 3 wheel sizes have advantages and all have disadvantages. 27.5 claims to be better at climbing but if that climb is loose and rocky then 29 gains an advantage due to better traction and rollover.

    So I dont see how you can say one is better than the others as during an one ride there are going to be sections that at some point favour any of the sizes. so that means at the end of the day over the course of a ride it makes sod all difference what size wheel you are riding.

    so just ride what you have and enjoy it!

    Premier Icon roverpig
    Subscriber

    Yes, that’s a brilliant piece of pseudo-science. Graphs and everything πŸ™‚ Funny, last year we were being told that 29ers climbed better due to better roll over and improved traction, conveniently ignoring the extra weight. Now we are being told that 650b climbs better due to lower weight, conveniently ignoring the roll over. Of course, in practice, it all depends on the climb that you choose.

    singlecrack
    Member

    Yes, that’s a brilliant piece of pseudo-science. Graphs and everything Funny, last year we were being told that 29ers climbed better due to better roll over and improved traction, conveniently ignoring the extra weight. Now we are being told that 650b climbs better due to lower weight, conveniently ignoring the roll over. Of course, in practice, it all depends on the climb that you choose.

    Or how strong your legs are

    I love Giant’s faux science explanations! They’re a triumph of marketing over engineering truth, the likes of which the 1950s tobacco industry would have been proud of. 650b is a magic compromise which manages to be more like 26″ when smaller is better (agility) and more like 29″ when bigger is better (rolling). πŸ˜›

    Premier Icon teamhurtmore
    Subscriber

    Just “enjoyed” the new website and marketing spiel over a coffee. Hats off to them for some quality spin and classy video! I was almost taken in!! Proof will be in the testing I guess as always.

    So I dont see how you can say one is better than the others as during an one ride there are going to be sections that at some point favour any of the sizes. so that means at the end of the day over the course of a ride it makes sod all difference what size wheel you are riding.

    This

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    Coincidentally, I opened up a slightly older bike mag yesterday- an STW I think- and found inside the front cover a massive Giant ad about how 29ers are definitely the future and you have to be a retard to buy anything else πŸ˜†

    Premier Icon roverpig
    Subscriber

    Orange 5 swing arm please

    No problem. Here you go πŸ™‚

    ebay: Orange Five Swing Arm

    londonerinoz
    Member

    A call out to the engineers, can you do the sums please?

    There’s a guy over on the Pinkbike thread that has, and he claims the relationship between the sizes is linear as you would expect, and things like the contact patch area doesn’t change with wheel size, just the shape of it.

    Even for a non engineer, Giant’s claims look highly spurious, with specific numbers quoted where it evidently suits them, and positive general comments seemingly conveniently made to spin the position when the numbers aren’t much closer than halfway. Maybe they should fess up that 27.5 doesn’t sit halfway between the two because the actual size isn’t halfway between the two. Pretty low effort IMO.

    shaggmiester
    Member

    zokes – Member
    well, all this does is confirm that I won’t be buying a new bike any time soon

    POSTED 2 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST
    Dickyboy – Member
    well, all this does is confirm that I won’t be buying a new bike any time soon
    yup me too, either gonna ride all my 26″ wheeled bikes into the ground or over to retrobike

    POSTED 2 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST

    +1

    core
    Member

    I was gonna build a 29er a month or two back, then couldn’t find forks I wanted, gave up, now upgrading all my 26er kit, it won’t be long before it all comes back around!

    A call out to the engineers, can you do the sums please?

    There’s a guy over on the Pinkbike thread that has, and he claims the relationship between the sizes is linear as you would expect, and things like the contact patch area doesn’t change with wheel size, just the shape of it.

    Even for a non engineer, Giant’s claims look highly spurious, with specific numbers quoted where it evidently suits them, and positive general comments seemingly conveniently made to spin the position when the numbers aren’t much closer than halfway. Maybe they should fess up that 27.5 doesn’t sit halfway between the two because the actual size isn’t halfway between the two. Pretty low effort IMO.

    I don’t have the time to do the sums but the relationship is indeed linear. And as the diameters are 559, 584 and 622, the nominal ‘wheel’ sizes with a big tyre are 27″, 28″ and 29.5″. Or with a small tyre, 26″, 27″ and 28.5″.

    Premier Icon rOcKeTdOg
    Subscriber

    I won’t be buying a new bike anytime soon

    Nor me, lack of money though rather than fretting over wheel size, if I had cash it’d be 27.5 though

    Premier Icon roverpig
    Subscriber

    The problem with doing the sums is that you have to decide what you are going to keep constant. For example, Giant’s calculations of wheel weight effectively assume the same tyre/rim/spokes. That sounds fine, but a 29er with a 2.35″ tyre has a much larger volume of air than a 26″ wheel with the same width tyre. You could just as well argue that you want to keep the volume of air the same (to give similar feel at similar pressure), in which case the width of the 29er tyre would be lower and the weight difference much less. In fact that is what most people do with 29ers; run narrower tyres. For example, my 29er wheels are hope/Arch Ex with 2.1″ Racing Ralph tyres and are actually lighter than my 26″ set (Hope/Flow Ex with 2.35″ Nobby Nic). But my 29er is my light fast XC hardtail and my 26″ bike is designed to take more abuse. So, as always, wheel size is only part of the story.

    wobbliscott
    Member

    This is just a ploy from Giant to try to shake the market up into deciding what its doing. The big manufactureres want this silly debate ended as much as we do so they can get on with the business of building bikes they can sell and take the uncertainty out of the market. It is a fiarly safe bet to lay your stakes on 650b – not that much bigger than 26″ so can eventually replace their long travel and DH bikes in their range so they’re trying to flush out what’s happening with 29er’s. The other big companies seem to have laid their stalls out and Giant are obviously wanting to cover their bets for as long as they can before committing – they may even be looking to sweep up any disenchanted people from other brands who may have discontinued their favourite wheelsize.

    Giant will fall into line with everyone else whatever that may turn out to be.

    Premier Icon roverpig
    Subscriber

    Yes, for all the talk of extra choice, the fact is that having multiple wheel sizes doesn’t really suit anybody. Whether it is the consumers or the manufacturers I think we’d all be happier with one wheel size and the manufacturers have already shown that they can build a bike with the characteristics to suit almost any rider using any of the three common sizes. So all that remains now is to pick one and we can all move on.

    Premier Icon richmtb
    Subscriber

    So according to Giant, with the exception of rolling resistance and traction. 26″ wheels are better

    So keep your 26″ bike and go tubeless. πŸ˜€

    There you go I’ve saved you all ££££

    Premier Icon alan-sierracycling
    Subscriber

    Just bought a fleet of Trance X2 in 26″ for the new season – but will be watching the marketing trends. Next year 27.5 – but who knows.

    Premier Icon roverpig
    Subscriber

    I wonder if this move by Giant will increase the value of my 2012 26″ Trance X2? Ever the optimist me πŸ™‚

    Premier Icon jameso
    Subscriber

    Giant are a massive global brand / manufacturer selling bikes in more markets than any other.
    You can put away any theories of marketing brain-washing for more profit – imo if anyone needs to hedge bets on a global average wheel it’s Giant. It’s nothing more than trying to remain competitive, very little to do with market coercion. They could lose a big chunk of sales by getting it wrong. They could also lose a lot of profit by having 3 wheel size platforms ‘just in case’. I’d be a much happier giant stakeholder right now than one of specialized if spesh remain 29-at-all-costs. I can see the downside in buying new wheels and all that but Giant won’t be the brand to ‘keep it real’ and keep making 26″ options that sell to an increasingly small number of people.

    TooTall
    Member

    From reading that article, it says that Giant can’t make 29er work very well around their suspension, so they are going to stop trying and convince us all that 650 was the answer all along. Despite other bike manufacturers with other suspension layouts making 29er FS work.
    So – Giant make things easier for themselves whilst investing in new and easier-to-make niche.

    Premier Icon ratherbeintobago
    Subscriber

    it says that Giant can’t make 29er work very well around their suspension,

    Isn’t Dave Weagle (or someone) trying to sue Giant on the basis that Maestro infringes existing patents for DW-link (which seems to work fine for 29ers)?

    Tom B
    Member

    The suspension on my Trance 29er seems to work fine?

    Premier Icon tenfoot
    Subscriber

    Currently have a Zesty for fun, twisty stuff. After a year of waiting for the Wheel Wars to settle down, I finally decided to get a 29″ hardtail for longer rides / racing to complement the Zesty.

    Now I haven’t got a clue. If the 29er becomes a niche wheel size, I might have 2 “obsolete” bikes that I can’t buy tubes / tyres for in the future.

    Looks like I’ll be waiting a bit longer.

    Premier Icon ahwiles
    Subscriber

    tenfoot – Member

    Now I haven’t got a clue. If the 29er becomes a niche wheel size, I might have 2 “obsolete” bikes that I can’t buy tubes / tyres for in the future.

    that’s really not going to happen.

    Do you ever see any 24″ mtb’s? – no? but getting rims/tyres/tubes is still easy.

    it says that Giant can’t make 29er work very well around their suspension

    Odd, I have an Anthem 29 and after mountain biking for 20 years and god knows how many bikes (39 at last count) over the years, It’s the best bike I have ever ridden, so I’m not quite sure who thinks the design doesn’t work.

    I use it as one bike for all tasks, does race duties at Elite level with light wheels, trail centres and day rides in peaks and dales etc. with a slightly more bomb proof set. for me it’s a great bike, much better than the 26″ version I used to have.

    BruceWee
    Member

    that’s really not going to happen.

    Do you ever see any 24″ mtb’s? – no? but getting rims/tyres/tubes is still easy.

    Not true. I can be seen riding round on my Nomad with a 24″ rear wheel.

    But yes, it is easy to get rims and tyres for it.

    The only wheel size I’ve struggled to find is 17″. Given the fact that there is only one bike that uses this size and SJS cycles will sell you the rims and tyres for silly money (Β£60 for a rim!) I don’t think finding 26″ parts is going to be a problem any time soon. Unless rim and tyre manufacturers make a concious decision to restrict access to force everyone onto the new sizes.

    no_eyed_deer
    Member

    …but can you still get replacement 24″ Kashimashimaaaaaaaaaaaaa fork stanchions? Can ya?

    Nope.

    (a rather facile point, but you may see the principle here). πŸ˜‰

    justatheory
    Member

    The Trance looks very nice indeed, in fact I’m seriously thinking of cancelling my order for the new Trek Fuel until I’ve had a go.

    Is cancelling a bike you’ve asked your LBS to order from the distributor bad form? I’d still be buying the Giant from them.

    Premier Icon AlexSimon
    Subscriber

    Speak to them justatheory, it might be fine, or it might be a pain!

    justatheory
    Member

    AlexSimon, aye, why do I post this cr@p? I’ll ask them.

    pussywillow
    Member

    Blazin-saddles – Member
    it says that Giant can’t make 29er work very well around their suspension
    Odd, I have an Anthem 29 and after mountain biking for 20 years and god knows how many bikes (39 at last count) over the years, It’s the best bike I have ever ridden, so I’m not quite sure who thinks the design doesn’t work.

    I use it as one bike for all tasks, does race duties at Elite level with light wheels, trail centres and day rides in peaks and dales etc. with a slightly more bomb proof set. for me it’s a great bike, much better than the 26″ version I used to have.

    POSTED 13 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST

    Oh ffs. πŸ™„

    Premier Icon roverpig
    Subscriber

    Odd, I have an Anthem 29 and after mountain biking for 20 years and god knows how many bikes (39 at last count) over the years, It’s the best bike I have ever ridden, so I’m not quite sure who thinks the design doesn’t work

    Well Giant for a start πŸ™‚

    I can imagine that folk who have recently been sold a Giant 29er are going to be a bit annoyed at Giant now claiming that 29ers are a bad idea. But bike companies have always tried to claim that this years bike is much better than anything they’ve ever made before. Just because this change involves a new wheel size doesn’t make that claim any more valid. If you thought a 29er Anthem or Trance was a great bike for you last year then it’s still a great bike for you now, whatever the people who made it say.

    Premier Icon AlexSimon
    Subscriber

    justatheory – Member

    AlexSimon, aye, why do I post this cr@p? I’ll ask them.
    lol

    mduncombe
    Member

    Odd, I have an Anthem 29 and after mountain biking for 20 years and god knows how many bikes (39 at last count) over the years, It’s the best bike I have ever ridden, so I’m not quite sure who thinks the design doesn’t work.

    best bike for what conditions and terrain though? It’s a relative. Any bike is going to be a compromise, no suspension, wheel size, tyre etc is going to be the best all of the time, in all conditions for every rider.

    So Giant must think that a 650b bike is the best compromise for average riders on average terrain…

    BTW, I have a Anthem 29 and with out doubt its the best bike I have owned to date.

    My Anthem is a rocket ship and on loose moderately technical and moderately steep climbs its much much better than any of my previous bikes but on the other hand its feels unwieldy on tight switchbacks such as those at Cardinham near Bodmin.

    On any trail there will be sections were a 26 is best, another section might work better on a 29 maybe a 650b will sit somewhere in the middle. Not to mention difefrences in riding styles and preffed terrain

    At the end of the day, all things considered I really dont think it matters what wheel size you have for most people.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    mduncombe – Member

    So Giant must think that a 650b bike is the best compromise for average riders on average terrain..

    Oh come on… Giant think that 650b is most marketable. Does anybody really believe the 650b exodus is about performance? Santa Cruz don’t, and admitted as much… Giant you can judge by their actions, 29er was the best until they decided to get on the 650b bandwagon, then 650b was the best, and suddenly their 29ers were never that good despite what they told us last month.

    It’s not about the bike.

    Premier Icon Sanny
    Subscriber

    I watch this whole debate with bemused interest. Personally, if Giant decide to drop their 29er range, I think that would be a great pity. The Trance X 29 I have on long term test continues to impress me with just how capable and versatile a bike it is. Every time I take it into the big mountains, I come back with a grin on my face and genuine surprise at how well it handles loose, steep, tight and rocky trails compared to my normal 5 Spot set up with Lyriks at the front.

    I had the pleasure of riding Binnean Mor a couple of weeks ago which features pretty much the full gamut of technical trail feature. Exposed, tight switchbacks were dispatched with ease, rock gardens were plowed through with a confidence that I’d normally reserve for beefier longer travel forks.

    I’ve nothing to gain by bigging up Giant but in my experience of their Trance X 29, they’ve come up with a very capable bike that can probably do everything that the vast majority of riders will ever ask of it short of freeride and downhill. I started the test with an open mind as to what the bike would be capable of and it’s fair to say it’s more than capable when trails turn steep and technical. πŸ˜€

    Is 650b better? Who knows? However, it will be pretty bloody impressive if it can equal or better the Trance 29er. πŸ˜€

    mduncombe
    Member

    It’s not about the bike.

    cant disagree with that, although I always ride better and faster on a new bike πŸ™‚

    Maybe Giant are doing this not just to extract more money from the punters I doubt many large corps are that competent.

    I can see Giant as having convinced themselves about 29 but then came across some issues that they were not happy with but were already commited to production. Then when they were able to they addressed them.

    I work for a large electronic company in product development, product decisons are not always made on whats best but rather on deadlines, ticking boxes and development/production resources.

    besides, will 29er owners now feel the need to go out and buy a 650b, of course not unless they are so insecure about not having the latest thing.

    Lets say 650b really takes of and 26/29 wheels disapear completely, well by the time they do its most likely going to be about time for a new bike anyway. Based on me having 5 mountain bikes over a period of 25 years.

    Its not about the wheel size, its about some people being upset that they dont have the latest thing anymore. Most people dont care and just go and ride what they have in the shed.

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