Get in !! (Athletics Spoiler)

Clearly he is genetically different from your typical sprinter-taller & leaner. I think he’s a one-off freak-of-nature for want of a better term.

I was going to counter this with similar to Fuzzywuzzy….

he obviously has an abnormal stride length and good leg speed to go with it but if that’s all it takes to give you a big edge why are most sprinters short and stocky – if there’s lots of lanky kids running fast times growing up a few must have good leg speed to and would have made the grade.

Loads of sports are in many ways like a massively speeded up version of natural selection. Very quickly the best shape for a specific sport comes to the fore. I’d argue that the fact that Bolt isn’t a similar shape to other elite sprinters is more not less of a reason to suspect something (which I’m trying really hard not to!). But then look at the difference between body shape in the women’s final and maybe it’s an irrelevance!

OT – in a sport measured in thousandths of a second where marginal gains must be everything, why would you drag around all that hair!

This is similar to the thread on Farah where a number of people asserted that he was taking drugs

A number of people asserted drug taking was as rife within athletics, and especially distance running, as in cycling, a number of people (including yourself) adamantly denied that was the case. Have you noticed the revelations that have come out since then?

I once lined up against Hugh Jones in a 10k. I’d never heard of him (despite him being at University in Liverpool the same time as me) Seeing him warm up I took little notice of him. He was awesome and went on to win the race and the London Marathon a couple of years later. His “style” couldnt be described as “smooth” but he was certainly effective.
Its about a number of factors and not all of them look efficient to the naked eye.

A number of people asserted drug taking was as rife within athletics, and especially distance running, as in cycling, a number of people (including yourself) adamantly denied that was the case. Have you noticed the revelations that have come out since then?

I think you have a convenient recollection of that thread. I did not “adamantly” deny that distance runners took drugs as you assert. As in this thread I would like to see at least some evidence before castigating athletes. You indicated that Salazar was on drugs in spite of the fact that he had never failed a drugs test. The fact that he ran high mileage in training was a sign that he was doping to you whereas to me it may have been the root of his success.
By all means reopen the thread.

I think you have a convenient recollection of that thread

😆

Did I insinuate that he cheats? Do I have to insinuate that he cheats? I think the facts insinuate that he cheats. But only time will tell

Yes you di, No you dont have to but you did
Facts cannot insinuate anything
Time wont convince you unless he fails a test as you have decided he cheats without evidence and one cannot prove a negative.

Was Bolts doping results not suspicious in that leak?
I thought that both his and Farahs were not suspicious and therefore “clean”.

All these debates show is that some sports are in such a dire place that some people, and I can see why , will think any and all winners must be cheats due to past behaviours.

Given that I do hope he is clean and I have seen no evidence , except being fast, to suggest he is.

IMO Bolt is clean. He’s a very special athlete, the others are cheating to try and get close to him.

IMO Bolt is clean. He’s a very special athlete, the others are cheating to try and get close to him.

if he’s clean, he’s better than anyone there has ever been, on all the drugs they have been EVER EVER,

shall we chuck in Dafne Schippers, just won the 200m womens, and became the 3rd fastest ever

a white european at no3 😆

Jones and especially FloJos records should be expunged at once. Especially FloJos.

You indicated that Salazar was on drugs in spite of the fact that he had never failed a drugs test.

Yes but he did train at Athletics West which had a known drugs program. Interesting Coe also did some training with Athletics West, which is why he is best buddies with Salazar. If there is one thing that the LA thing showed its that the company you keep is a better indicator of being clean or not than drug tests.

one thing that the LA thing showed its that the company you keep is a better indicator of being clean or not than drug tests.

What a load of rubbish!

Most sprinters aren’t short. They are powerfully built. The power and fast twitch muscles combine to make them move quickly with pretty impressive stride lengths when up to speed. Bolt is taller and by whatever dint of nature is able have good leg speed. He is not particularly good at getting it all flowing until upright, although he is damn fast at it, but when in his stride in the mid part of the race he pulls away from the competition, fast legs long stride and quick feet. Shorter sprinters are better over the shorter sprints. Height of the average indoor 60m would be lower because they can get the power out quicker and into their running over a shorter burst.

Junkyard – lazarus

Yes you di, No you dont have to but you did
Facts cannot insinuate anything
Time wont convince you unless he fails a test as you have decided he cheats without evidence and one cannot prove a negative.

It’s an interesting phenomenon that facts can’t insinuate anything, but stating facts such as “of the top 5 fastest sprinters in the world, Bolt is the only one who hasn’t tested positive” is an insinuation.

To me it makes zero difference. Even if he got popped tomorrow what does it prove other than that there was a level playing field? As things currently sit, he’s the fastest man who ever lived, even competing against chemically enhanced competition. Tomorrow, if he was caught, he’d be the fastest man who ever lived, who just happened to be doping, like all of his competitors.

It’s strange that people latch on to athletes and hope that they aren’t cheating. Remember how Carl Lewis was hailed as such a righteous hero when Ben Johnson beat him? How he started hinting that everyone around him was cheating. People vilified Johnson, when the only mistake he made was getting caught. We know now Lewis was doping too and apparently was wearing braces because he was on so much HGH it was deforming his jaw. But Johnson will still be remembered as the villain.

And then you have the Lance thing, people on forums going ballistic at anyone who insinuated that he was doping. Now he’s the devil.

Or people who think that soccer isn’t dirty. I think Bolt is an incredible athlete, and seems a thoroughly nice guy. As it happens my cousin works extremely closely with him and likes him. But I think it’s naive or short sighted to project some idea of sporting ethical perfection on to him, or any other elite professional athlete.

It’s an interesting phenomenon that facts can’t insinuate anything, but stating facts such as “of the top 5 fastest sprinters in the world, Bolt is the only one who hasn’t tested positive” is an insinuation.

To me it makes zero difference. Even if he got popped tomorrow what does it prove other than that there was a level playing field? As things currently sit, he’s the fastest man who ever lived, even competing against chemically enhanced competition. Tomorrow, if he was caught, he’d be the fastest man who ever lived, who just happened to be doping, like all of his competitors.

It’s strange that people latch on to athletes and hope that they aren’t cheating. Remember how Carl Lewis was hailed as such a righteous hero when Ben Johnson beat him? How he started hinting that everyone around him was cheating. People vilified Johnson, when the only mistake he made was getting caught. We know now Lewis was doping too and apparently was wearing braces because he was on so much HGH it was deforming his jaw. But Johnson will still be remembered as the villain.

And then you have the Lance thing, people on forums going ballistic at anyone who insinuated that he was doping. Now he’s the devil.

Or people who think that soccer isn’t dirty. I think Bolt is an incredible athlete, and seems a thoroughly nice guy. As it happens my cousin works extremely closely with him and likes him. But I think it’s naive or short sighted to project some idea of sporting ethical perfection on to him, or any other elite professional athlete.

Yep, Carl Lewis got away with it and Ben Johnson is forever remembered as the cheat.

It’s the same people who came out with the nonsense about Lance being ‘special’ and couldn’t possibly be cheating, who swear to god Bolt must be clean.

The info posted up by convert on the first page is a pretty good indication that the chances are, bolt is/has been doping.

I agree with your post entirely.

It’s nice to believe that these ‘special’ athletes come around and can beat everyone else who is doping with hard work and god given talent.

The thing is, it’s just not very realistic………

The trouble is that nobody can prove they are clean, the only proof is by getting caught. Until then you’re just someone who hasn’t failed a drugs test. And the fact that so many past winners have been exposed means that the current winners are implicitly accused (by some) of cheating too.

It’s a no win situation for the likes of bolt or farah. Innocent until proven guilty should be the way to deal with them but that relies on a trustworthy and independent governing body, and do they have that?

I reckon hes clean..as above, just a completely diffrent stride length and style. Stands to reason if he needs less steps to run 100 m he should be quicker.

Also…when he was so far ahead of everyone a few years back…why would he risk it. He was winning by miles, drugs don’t make you that much quicker than all the field

tpbiker – Member

I reckon hes clean..as above, just a completely diffrent stride length and style. Stands to reason if he needs less steps to run 100 m he should be quicker.

Just musing here, not having a go at you tpbiker, but isn’t saying he’s just different, or he’s a genetic freak, or he’s blah blah as big a disservice as saying he’s doping?

One thing we can be sure of is that all these guys, clean or dirty are killing themselves in training day in day out all year round. To attribute Bolt’s success to a quirk of genetics just seems to sell him short.

Conventional wisdom based on (how) many years of sprinting is that it requires a powerful, muscular shape. And Bolt is a gangle. Maybe he’s at a huge genetic disadvantage but he just outworks these guys with a superior ethic (with or without drugs). Just musing.

Also…when he was so far ahead of everyone a few years back…why would he risk it.

Money. Lots of money. He’s wealthy beyond my wildest dreams but not mega rich for a dominant star athlete.

I don’t think he’s doping and I truly hope he’s clean, it’d destroy the sport if he wasn’t. But if he did get found to be doping it wouldn’t be a huge shock given his dominance in such a tainted event and given the number of Jamaican athletes that got pinged as well.

I wouldn’t say its a disservice. Every athlete works to their genetic strengths and he is no different. I also don’t think anyone is saying he’s faster just because of his stride; clearly he’s put in the work to get everything together to run fast on the day – fitness, technique, mental strength etc.

I just think it’s just a factor that makes it plausible that he should have an advantage over other athletes. In sprint events it’s such fine margins that small differences matter. In the 100m he was only 0.001% better than Gattlin on the day.

saw this posted elswhere

from here

http://leastthing.blogspot.co.uk/2015/08/more-fast-sprinters-than-ever.html

But I think it’s naive or short sighted to project some idea of sporting ethical perfection on to him, or any other elite professional athlete.

“ethical perfection” is a rather emotive way of saying some folk think there is no evidence he is cheating.

IMHO your view that its better to assume any winner is almost definitely cheating is pessimistic in the extreme

Some will and some wont.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34089451

Nice article on here about how he does it/how anyone runs fast.

That commentator Brendan Foster is really getting on my tIts!

Is he living the life of Mo? I mean all his comments sounded as if he was the one running …

Given that Brendan was actually pretty good at distance running himself (like you perhaps?) he has some insight on what it takes. His job is to get it across to those that have never competed at such a level what its like, would your experienced based knowledge be better?

was actually pretty good at distance running himself

Love him or hate him he was the real deal, proper northern hard core distance runner. The story about him promising to run a world record if Gateshead built a track is class. They did, and true to his word he came back and broke the world 3000m world record on it!

Is that evidence Dirtyrider? You dont seem to have much do you?

a white european at no3

5 in the top ten 🙂

Interesting that the other 4 are all East Germans. Not insinuating anything there, just commenting…

I think its reasonable to insinuate about east german results