Because it would demonstrate how the electoral system which has in recent years favoured two party politics could be “steered” by a relatively small party.

And that would make you “roll on the floor howling with laughter” ?

And that would make you “roll on the floor howling with laughter” ?

Maybe he’s easily amused?

ernie_lynch – Member

Because it would demonstrate how the electoral system which has in recent years favoured two party politics could be “steered” by a relatively small party.

And that would make you “roll on the floor howling with laughter”[/quote]

I would.

Now please bow down to the small parties … 😆

Oh look a spot on my shoe … you know what to do. 😛

And that would make you “roll on the floor howling with laughter” ?

Well OK in reality I would chuckle a bit. But I would be amused.

two party politics could be “steered” by a relatively small party.

And this is a bad thing? Plenty of evidence from around the globe as to how multi party coalitions make for popular governance. Without being able to run history twice we’ll never know the true extent of their influence but whilst I’d never choose to have a conservative government, I think the recent lib dem moderated version was more palatable to the majority of the UK population than it could have been in power on its own.

Now if only we could get to the point where labour + conservative get fewer than 2/3rds of the seats a coalition of all the others could get in.

Doubtful. There are very few examples of minority coalitions taking power, let alone minorities with sub 40% of the seats with the 2 largest parties out of office.

And this is a bad thing?

No, I wasn’t suggesting it was.

slowoldman – Member

And this is a bad thing?

No, I was suggesting it was. [/quote]

Huston we have a problem. Small parties in control. 😆

Corrected “No, I wasn’t suggesting it was”.

ernie_lynch – Member
Gotcha.

You must have been proud, Ernie 😉

I thought you were blaming the last Labour government for increases in government spending!

Not sure if anyone is blaming, but let’s look…

Under labour public spending rose by 4.4% pa on average versus 0.7% under the Tories before them

As you would expect, labour spent more in NHS and education, and transport, and wait for it defence that the Tories before them (another one of those oddities)

True total public spending did increase as a percentage of national income, from <40% when labour won power to 48% one of the highest levels among developed countries

Not sure if anyone is blaming

You’re not keeping up THM. We have already established that the Tories in opposition fully supported the last Labour government’s spending levels.

Since you might have missed it here it is again :

Tories vow to match Labour spending

The Conservatives sought last night to destroy Labour claims that they would cut public services by issuing a formal pledge to match Gordon Brown’s spending plans.

“Today, I can confirm for the first time that a Conservative government will adopt these spending totals,” the Shadow Chancellor said.

“The charge from our opponents that we will cut services becomes transparently false,” he said. [/i]

It’s there in black and white in the Daily Telegraph.

So you see there is no question of Tories “blaming” Labour.

.

ernie_lynch – Member
Gotcha.

You must have been proud, Ernie

Well he initially didn’t make it clear that he wasn’t blaming Labour for increased spending, but when he said, quote : “If GDP shrinks, government spending as a ration of GDP will obviously rise”
I understood what he was saying. Am I proud of eventually understanding what he meant ? No, not really, any particular reason why I would be ?

Haven’t missed anything but good swerve!!!

BTW, we do have three parties who are broadly similar in spongin plans with timing being the main differentiator. The rest are selling fluff or outright lies.

Labour is going to guarantee this and that apparently … 😯

Haven’t missed anything but good swerve!!!

You mean like the one when the Tory supporters on here suddenly realised that George Osborne had fully, one hundred percent, penny for penny, supported Labour’s spending levels….that one ?

Apples and apples or apples and pears, Ernie – actually don’t bother because this is an old tactic!!!

What’s an old tactic ?

It’s so embarassing when your dad tells you off in public:

😀

You mean like the one when the Tory supporters on here suddenly realised that George Osborne had fully, one hundred percent, penny for penny, supported Labour’s spending levels….that one ?

How odd, I thought that the Tories were cutting ‘too far’ and ‘too fast’?

[video]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rI0wpwuYWAE[/video]

So you can’t distinguish what the Tory said before the general election, ie, :

The Conservatives sought last night to destroy Labour claims that they would cut public services by issuing a formal pledge to match Gordon Brown’s spending plans.

“Today, I can confirm for the first time that a Conservative government will adopt these spending totals,” the Shadow Chancellor said.

“The charge from our opponents that we will cut services becomes transparently false,” he said.[/b]

And what the Conservatives did after the general election ? Really ?

Now that’s what I call really odd 😕

BTW thank you Z-11 for giving me the opportunity to once again remind Tory supporters on here how George Osborne fully, one hundred percent, penny for penny, supported Gordon’s Brown spending plans.

If you haven’t seen the Daily Telegraph link tell me and I’ll post it again.

Who gives a toss what the Torries pledged to match – we never got to find out. Pretty sure the Torries supported the Iraq war, but it’s Blair who gets it in the neck still. The government of the day promised no more boom or bust. No caveats. And when things went tits up Labour to a greater or lesser extent got blamed by the public come election time.

Scamper – Member
Who gives a toss what the Torries pledged to match – we never got to find out.

Everyone should – yes and no

It’s important not to fall for old tricks such as fact manipulation to make false points. That’s why you should give a toss. Like current and past governments, Labour set a trap (no not the 50p tax one this time) and GO responded. But what was the response? To commit to 2% real increases in gov spending. So he committed to half the average spend during Labours time in office. Apple or a pear anyone?

But what is true, is that Austerity George (sic) did commit spending at a rate double the average of the previous Tory governments. Ok not Blair or Brownesque in magnitude but hardly an austerity slasher!!!

Austerity is a relative term
If, at work, we had budgeted for increases of 10 % next year and I only increase by 2% and I cut the size of the department , the number employed, froze wages have I still spent more or have I decreased? is it growth or austerity?

Whilst its possible to credibly argue I increased the budget most folk would think we are in austerity and cuts. Clearly the Tory led govt reduced the numbers in the public sector, reduced budgets, caused depratment to become smaller, froze recruitment in say policing etc. If this is not austerity then I do not know what it is. I also think it would be pretty hard [ despite the maths] to support the argument that it was growth and not austerity.
I am not sure what the mileage is in debating this as we all know what happened and we can all take a polemic stance and murder it to death

I thought that the Tories were cutting ‘too far’ and ‘too fast’?

Probably a good job they failed to achieve this[ ie there cut targets] , hit labour targets and the economy turnaround then

Earnie that link you are referring to is 8 years old and pre recession. Times have moved on from then and it’s no longer relevant

Who gives a toss what the Torries pledged to match

Well first of all let’s establish what exactly the Tories pledged to match. Here you will see that they promised to match Labour’s/Gordon Brown’s spending plans :

Tories vow to match Labour spending

The Conservatives sought last night to destroy Labour claims that they would cut public services by issuing a formal pledge to match Gordon Brown’s spending plans.

“Today, I can confirm for the first time that a Conservative government will adopt these spending totals,” the Shadow Chancellor said.

Is this important ? Well yes, the Tories main argument in this election campaign appears to be don’t vote Labour because they got us in a mess through over spending. The fact the the Tories themselves, including the present Tory Chancellor, fully, one hundred percent, penny for penny, supported Labour’s spending plans exposes this as completely misleading, hypocritical, and ridiculous.

If you don’t give a toss about deliberate misinformation and hypocrisy in politics then that goes a long way in explaining the dire and depressing state of British politics. I would suggest that you do give a toss.

You missed out all the bold Ernie.

edward2000 – Member

Earnie that link you are referring to is 8 years old and pre recession. Times have moved on from then and it’s no longer relevant

So the economic policies pursued before the recession have no relevance to the economic situation today ? And that’s coming from a Tory supporter ? Brilliant ! You couldn’t make that sort of stuff up ! 😆

Ernie, one problem

You’ve missed out the reports from one year later that said they had dropped that pledge, because Labours ‘fiscal stimulus’ plans in the face of recession were storing up problems for later

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/2706490/Tories-planning-to-drop-Labour-spending-plans.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7735113.stm

So they quickly dropped the pledge one year later when the shit hit the fan and the global recession kicked in ?

But it’s still all the fault of the last Labour government’s spending, despite the fact that the Tories, including the present Tory Chancellor, fully, one hundred percent, penny for penny, supported Labour’s spending plans ?!!!

😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

.

EDIT :

one problem

Yes I can see a problem. Hopefully no one will remind punters that the Tories, including the present Tory Chancellor, fully, one hundred percent, penny for penny, supported Labour’s spending plans !

😆

So they quickly dropped the pledge one year later when the shit hit the fan and the global recession kicked in ?

Which is why I said

that link you are referring to is 8 years old and pre recession. Times have moved on from then and it’s no longer relevant

Still mixing apples and pears Ernie, are you sponsored by nutrabullet?

I know how you like to repeatedly mention apples and pears when you can’t think of anything to say THM but how about saying something constructive, eh?

Are you disputing the claim that in opposition the Tories, including George Osborne, supported Gordon Brown’s spending plans 100% ?

Do you not think that this rather important if somewhat embarrassing fact should be remembered, specially when the Tories make such a big thing about Labour spending ?

Have you got something to say beyond pointless references to apples and pears ?

Yes I have given the facts to help those who are confused by your mixing them up. See above.

As you know, I have commented about Tories and spending many times including your poster girl.

Oh your favourite tactic …… patronizing.

Obviously you can’t dispute the Daily Telegraph article which clearly reveals the embarrassing fact that the Tories in opposition fully supported Gordon Brown’s spending plans, so you suggest that anyone who reveals this embarrassing fact doesn’t understand or is confused.

Not that you are a Tory of course, oh no 🙂

If you say so, if you say so.

Tried the facts, you ignore them, so it just becomes a little dull now. Keep pretending and keep mixing it all up, if it suits the narrative. I’ll leave you to it.

Tried the facts

Here are the facts I’m talking about, they are simple, straightforward, clear, and unambiguous :

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1562023/Tories-vow-to-match-Labour-spending.html

Gosh, you are having a bad day, postîng the article again (yawn) that makes my point.

I’ll have a pear this time please….then that’s enough fruit for today

(Hint: timing, amount, history – if you want to correct your mistakes but I doubt that)

I thought you were leaving it ?

I have no point to make other than what the article reports. That Osborne was committed to the same spending in 2007 just before the recession as Gordon Brown.

You might think it was justified or not, but that’s completely irrelevant.

Damn and the pear looked so lovely. Looks like I will have to settle for the apple after all.

Old tactics die hard

(timing, amount, history)

Well as you obviously don’t want to leave it let’s sum up……after 10 years of overspending by Labour governments George Osborne announced in 2007 that a Tory government would match exactly Gordon Brown’s spending plans.

As the Telegraph article put it :

“The Conservatives sought last night to destroy Labour claims that they would cut public services by issuing a formal pledge to match Gordon Brown’s spending plans.”

But as I know that you’re bored with the Telegraph link here is one to the BBC :

Tories ‘to match Labour spending’

A Conservative government would match Labour’s projected public spending totals for the next three years, shadow chancellor George Osborne has said.

…..after 10 years of overspending by Labour governments

Really, that’s not how The Newstatesman sums it up!

But making a little more progress on the grocery stand now. We may just get there in the end.

Also interesting to note the first two years when labour got into power and the jibes they had to (falsely) face then. These matching commitments create all kinds of mischief don’t they. Austerity Balls, doesn’t quite have the same ring to it does it!!!

Anyway got some testing/explaining how Pitt dealt with huge debts when he came into office in the 1780s now. I’ll try to keep the student on topic!!

THM – could I advise you stick to the day job (whatever that is) and not enter politics. This debating lark, you really are crap at it. Ernie’s running rings around you with very little effort and I don’t think you are even aware! 🙂 Your comebacks need work, your insults are lame and your use of metaphor, well it sucks.

I’d give up and move on, there’s only one winner here and it’s not you 😉