Gaza

This is (openly…) an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory.

What a brilliant example of how the term “anti-semitic” is now used with complete disregard whether or not it is appropriate.

Somafunk’s timeline might well be incorrect but the idea that it is “anti-semitic” is absurd.

There is no “conspiracy theory”, there is however the fact that the CAA was set up by a small bunch of British zionists who were concerned about the bad publicity Israel was receiving in 2014 during one of its regular turkey shoots in Gaza.

https://www.thejc.com/lets-talk/analysis/how-a-small-band-of-activists-took-the-lead-ct3bq3tg

Did you hit the report button if you genuinely believed that Somafunk’s comment was anti-semitic, or was shouting anti-semitic just a knee jerk reaction which wasn’t supposed to be taken seriously?

You do realise that these absurd allegations seriously undermine the fight against actual anti-semitism, don’t you?

I have seen the slogan with “if you haven’t been accused of anti-semitism you haven’t spoken up enough for Palestine”.

People are starting to treat the allegation as a badge of honour.

Edit: And to be fair I have a great deal of admiration for the growing number of Jews who are accused of being anti-semitic.

This is (openly…) an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory. Corbyn wasn’t even elected leader of the Labour Party until September 2015.

The CAA was formed in 2014 during the 2014 Israeli conflict with Gaza to counter the UK led Palestinian movement of which Jeremy Corbyn was a very vocal proponent for Palestinian rights and a target for the CAA

Do not throw around such crass comments, I am well aware of when Corbyn was elected and the CAA targeted him in 2014.

It is, literally, an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory to suggest that British Jews are being backed by Mossad to engage in a conspiracy to bring down your favourite political leader.

It fits right up there with accusing Jews of being Israeli spies and claiming that Jews are acting on behalf of a foreign state. It’s exactly of the type of behaviour the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance gave as common examples of anti-Semitism. See the link above.

There is no suggestion that any other demonstrators are “acting on behalf of foreign states” when they express their opinion on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

It fits right up there with accusing Jews of being Israeli spies and claiming that Jews are acting on behalf of a foreign state. It’s exactly of the type of behaviour the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance gave as common examples of anti-Semitism. See the link above.

The link you quoted says:

Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations.

Does that mean it is (claimed to be) antisemitic to say that a specific individual is more loyal to Israel than the UK, or does it mean that it is antisemitic to say that British Jews in general are more loyal to Israel? Because the former is clearly ludicrous, since an individual may well be more loyal to Israel (under different circumstances it might apply to me, since I hold no great “loyalty” to the place where I happened to be born). And the latter is irrelevant to the current debate, since nobody (that I have seen) is claiming that British Jews in general are more loyal to Israel.

There is no suggestion that any other demonstrators are “acting on behalf of foreign states” when they express their opinion on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Maybe they would be if Palestine was recognised as an “state”, however false accusations that demonstrators supporting Palestine are terrorist sympathisers, are violent and ant-semantic are frequently voiced by the media, politicians and pro-Israeli supporters with barely any push back.

The support for Palestine are held to much higher moral standards, and frankly IMO one of the reasons that the Israeli propaganda machine is failing is because they have upheld higher moral standards and many people can see the those dual standards in practise.

It is, literally, an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory to suggest that British Jews are being backed by Mossad to engage in a conspiracy to bring down your favourite political leader.

How anti-semitic is that?!?! After accusing others of being anti-semitic you lump all British Jews together!

No one on here is criticising “British Jews”, many of whom are committed anti-Zionists. And it is frankly pretty racist to lump all Jews together

There is no suggestion that any other demonstrators are “acting on behalf of foreign states” when they express their opinion on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Not only have those who show their support for Palestine been accused of acting on behalf of Hamas, the governing authority in Gaza, but Israel has gone as far as accusing the International Court of Justice of being “the legal arm of Hamas”.

https://www.politico.eu/article/israel-accuses-south-africa-of-being-the-legal-arm-of-hamas/

It is, literally, an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory to suggest that British Jews are being backed by Mossad to engage in a conspiracy to bring down your favourite political leader.

Which is probably why no one is stating that. The statement being made is about an individual and even there it doesnt meet the anti-Semitic definition since that states it is about prioritising Israel over their own which again no one is claiming.

I think its rather hard to try and argue the CAA isnt a pro-Israeli organisation and one which did target Corbyn and co. Which, to be fair, if I was a pro-Israeli activist I would have been weighing up the pros and cons of doing so.

May did have to kick out an Israeli diplomat for being stupid enough to be caught talking about trying to “take down” unfriendly mps. Whether they were someone competent who dropped their guard or just a walty mitt character is still unclear.

Never understood the Labour and Corbyn antisemite stuff….. Standing up for Palestinians isn’t antisemitic, just morally correct.

Never understood the Labour and Corbyn antisemite stuff…

Really? It was absolutely imperative for zionists that the Labour Party should not win a general election with Corbyn as their leader, and Labour got pretty close to it in 2017. Can you imagine how much it would have set back the Zionist cause if the UK, supposedly the United States closest ally, become pro-Palestinian? And on top of that a permanent member of the UN Security Council, NATO, and G7.

Obviously it was always going to be a struggle to cast as racist a man who for years had been ridiculed by the right-wing press for his political correctness/opposition to racism, and to simultaneously claim that the Labour Party was rife with anti-semitism, despite the fact that the previous party leader had been a Jew and faced no problem whatsoever for being Jewish, but with help from Labour right-wingers and, ironically, the right-wing press, they did a pretty good job.

All UK governments for the foreseeable future will do whatever they can to support Zionism, even if public pressure and international law forces them to reluctantly take limited measures against the Israeli government.

Standing up for Palestinians isn’t antisemitic

Of course it isn’t. That was never the issue.

Can we get back to the current hell of what is happening in Gaza, rather than all this nonsense about organisations being set up by Mossad specifically to be ready in case Corbyn ever became leader? It’s all nonsense. Irrelevant self indulgent self congratulatory backwards looking after the fact nonsense, in a time of real crisis for the people of Palestine.

Standing up for Palestinians isn’t antisemitic

Of course it isn’t. That was never the issue.

It goes to the very heart of the issue and being in denial  isn’t helpful. Speaking up in support of the Palestinian people will very likely result in accusations of anti-semitism.

A classic example is the International Court of Justice expressing concern for the Palestinian people in Gaza, the Israeli governments response is absolutely typical – it accuses the ICJ of anti-semitism:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/26/israeli-officials-accuse-international-court-of-justice-of-antisemitic-bias

The Israeli government and its supporters misuse the term to deflect criticism of the way they treat Palestinians:

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2023/apr/24/un-ihra-antisemitism-definition-israel-criticism

That’s not about Labour’s problems. And they weren’t about “standing up for Palestinians”. That absolutely can be done without defending or turning a blind eye to antisemitism.

eally? It was absolutely imperative for zionists that the Labour Party should not win a general election with Corbyn as their leader, and Labour got pretty close to it in 2017

I get all that, but for me Corbyn was never an antisemite….. Media bollocks blew it up to be an issue.

However, I agree with @kelvin

This topic as been derailed.

The issue here should be what Isreal is doing in Gaza, not what happened years ago in British politics..

FWIW, I would vote for an anti-zionist government (but I can’t vote).

And for some balance here’s a bit of Isreali propaganda

That’s not about Labour’s problems. And they weren’t about “standing up for Palestinians”.

No it’s about the problem which zionists have with any criticism of Israel, whether it is within the Labour Party or within the International Court of Justice.

They use the term anti-semitism as a blanket response to any criticism wherever it might come from – South Africa, the Labour Party, the ICJ, American university campuses, etc.

And yes it is about standing up for Palestinians – all the allegations of anti-semitism stem from precisely that.

This topic as been derailed.

Not at all. The Israeli government and its supporters have made anti-semitism a central issue to the discussion concerning what is currently happening in Gaza. Obviously I wish they hadn’t but there’s no point denying that they have.

The Israeli government and its supporters have made anti-semitism a central issue to the discussion concerning what is currently happening in Gaza.

Agree, but going over it ad infinitum and arguing the toss about every point is distracting.

Distracting from what – your videos of children crying? Or whatever they are, I don’t fancy clicking.

It’s all about anti-semitism, according to  the Israeli Prime Minister today. Anti-semitic mobs have apparently taken over leading American universities and he claims that they want to “kill Jews wherever they are”, although he omits to mention  the vital role that Jews are playing in these university campus demonstrations.

According to Netanyahu “when you listen to them they not only say death to Israel, death to the Jews”. And yet when I listened to what the American students were chanting yesterday it was “let Gaza live”. It particularly struck me as it was a chant which I had never heard before – one of the common chants in the London demos is “Gaza Gaza don’t you cry, we will never let you die”.

One of the most amusing videos I’ve seen of the US demos is the woman at Yale with “Jew” written on her T-shirt wandering around apparently in the hope that she will be abused so that her husband can film her being punched. Maybe that’s how they get their kicks – each to their own – but unfortunately for them nobody takes the remotest bit of notice of them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qokhPdgvgw0

Mass graves in Gaza show victims’ hands were tied, says UN rights office

https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/04/1148876

The photograph of what remains of the Al-Shifa Hospital is truly horrific. Surely the IDF unit responsible for that must be reasonably easy to identify and at some point in the future you would expect individuals responsible to be put on trial for war crimes?

Especially as global hostility towards Israeli actions appears to be growing with every day – and not least in the United States.

I found this particularly sobering :

“Every 10 minutes a child is killed or wounded. They are protected under the laws of war, and yet they are ones who are disproportionately paying the ultimate price in this war,” said the High Commissioner.

It’s all about anti-semitism, according to the Israeli Prime Minister today.

Bernie disagrees.

your videos of children crying? Or whatever they are, I don’t fancy clicking.

Honestly, mate… I don’t **** blame you for not wanting to watch it. It’s sickening, yet it’s happening.

Never understood the Labour and Corbyn antisemite stuff…

If you want to discuss it, start a new thread. Corbyn’s stupid blindness to anti-Semitism, and the mad anti-Semitic conspiracy theory about how a British Jew was backed by Mossad to foment against him a decade ago, and the propensity for lefties to repackage and reproduce tired anti-Jewish memes in modern times despite claiming not to be bigoted, have little or nothing to do with Gaza.

Blimey, calm down, why not tell us about your bikes?

… how a British Jew was backed by Mossad to foment against him a decade ago….

Because supporters of the Israeli state would never seek to interfere in another countries elections and undermine candidates whose opinions about Isreal they disagreed with.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/20/pro-israel-groups-gaza-us-elections

Same thing, different scale

Corbyn’s stupid blindness to anti-Semitism

There was no more anti-semitism in the Labour Party under Corbyn than at any other time, it was made up nonsense to attack his support for Palestine.

The Labour Party leader literally before Corbyn was a Jew, not once during the entire time that Ed Miliband was leader do I recall anyone, or any right-wing newspaper, claim that Labour has a problem with anti-semitism. And yet it suddenly became a problem as soon as Corbyn became leader.

Claims of anti-semitism is used as an excuse to condemn anyone who criticises the Israeli apartheid state. Two days ago the Israeli prime minister used that precise tactic when he publicly claimed that American university students protesting against the slaughter and starvation of Palestinians were anti-semitic and comparable to the Nazis in Germany.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/columbia-protests-jewish-students-antisemitism-b2534817.html

“It’s absurd to say that they are gonna bring in the National Guard and the NYPD to protect Jews when it’s actually Jews who are being arrested,” he added.

This is Kate Rosenblatt, a professor of Religion and Jewish Studies at #Emory. She says it’s “unconscionable” that the university called police on students. pic.twitter.com/KxqmKCnZmw

— Fiza Pirani (@fizapirani) April 25, 2024

This is the sort of person which the Israeli prime minister a couple of days ago accused this week of anti-semitism and compared with the Nazis.

the mad anti-Semitic conspiracy theory about how a British Jew was backed by Mossad to foment against him a decade ago

The Israeli policy of Hasbara is not a conspiracy “theory”, it is a documented fact. The Israeli state spends £millions trying to influence foreign governments and overseas public opinions.

If you genuinely don’t know about Hasbara I suggest that you read this article. Unless you believe that mainstream Israeli newspapers are spreading “mad anti-Semitic conspiracy theories”?

https://archive.li/2022.06.11-231555/https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2022-01-26/ty-article-magazine/.premium/this-anti-bds-initiative-failed-so-israel-throws-another-100-million-nis-at-it/0000017f-db50-df9c-a17f-ff58b4110000

The argument here seems to be that you can erase acts of actual racism if you can point to a sufficient number of false accusations of racism.

It doesn’t really work like that.

Which acts of racism do you think are being erased?

Can you erase apartheid racism? Genuine question.

Its worth noting even Margaret Hodges   has accused the CAA of using antisemitism as a weapon.

“I’m fed up of CAA using antisemitism as a front to attack Labour. Time to call them out for what and who they really are,”

The argument here seems to be that you can erase acts of actual racism if you can point to a sufficient number of false accusations of racism.

See my comment at the top of this page:

“You do realise that these absurd allegations seriously undermine the fight against actual anti-semitism, don’t you?”

How do you think that wild allegations of anti-semitism helps the fight against genuine anti-semitism?

I think all this talk about whether antisemitism existed/exists and whether Isreal do or don’t **** about with the narrative in other countries, both politically and culturally is distracting from what Isreal is doing in Gaza.