Fair point but the racist ideology that dehumanizes Palestinians to ‘human animals’ facilitates the genocide that is taking place.

See my comment at the top of this page:

“You do realise that these absurd allegations seriously undermine the fight against actual anti-semitism, don’t you?”

Shady plots to topple or control foreign leaders is top of the list when it comes to antisemitism. It’s Protocols of the Elders of Zion material – the anti-Jew racist trope top trump. PCA’s point was valid.

The response has been to disparage accusations of antisemitism in general by finding media examples to ridicule. Or, to a lesser extent, by trying to justify the original conspiracy claim.

I agree with Alpin above, in a sense. It’s possible to discuss Israel/Gaza without this.

I started the tangent with thoughts on the Gideon Falter video and subsequent longer versions – I inwardly debated a new thread vs this one and decided to add to this so Mark has only one to watch over. IDK if that was right, there’s been a lot of column inches spent on it and then by extension the whole anti-semitism argument, which may or may not have derailed the Gaza thread.

But to me that and the situation in Gaza are parts of the same thing. If the topic of anti-semitism wasn’t there then I feel there would be a far stronger condemnation and even action by now against the IDF’s actions. So the debate has to be had alongside what is still happening every day in Gaza itself, one exacerbates the other and v/v.

PCA’s point was valid.

In your opinion. However that you handwave the counterpoints away with “media examples to ridicule” and “justify” doesnt really work well.

Do you feel Hodge was wrong and if so why?

Do you feel May was incorrect to expel the Israeli diplomat for trying to remove unfriendly mps? If so why?

Note that when clear antisemitic tropes are deployed against Soros there is absolute silence from the pro-Israeli and sometimes even defence of the attackers. Guess why.

I think all this talk about whether antisemitism existed/exists and whether Isreal do or don’t **** about with the narrative in other countries, both politically and culturally is distracting from what Isreal is doing in Gaza.

Not at all. Joe Biden, which Israel is totally dependent on, is facing enormous and constantly growing opposition to his policy of providing weapons to Netanyahu and his far-right government so that they can kill Palestinians.

This is being replicated throughout the world. Israel is for very obvious reasons losing global public opinion so it has resorted to what it always resorts to, accusing those who criticise it of being anti-semitic.

There isn’t a huge amount that those across the world who are opposed to the apartheid state can do beyond pushing back against the lie and putting pressure on governments.

Watching videos has very limited usefulness – I don’t need to see a video of a child reduced to skin and bones to be convinced that withholding food from innocent civilians is unacceptable.

At the risk of labouring the point, I’m saying that other situations simply aren’t relevant.

Saying that x isn’t racist because y isn’t racist is like saying that finding Lord Lucan would tell us whether Elvis is dead or alive.

It’s Protocols of the Elders of Zion material – the anti-Jew racist trope top trump

You really want to use an example of anti-semitism which is over a hundred years old? I thought Netanyahu was desperate when he was comparing American university campuses with university campuses in Nazis Germany.

To bring things up to the 21st century have a read of this Haaretz article which discusses how Israel is currently spending millions of dollars trying to influence politics and governments across the world.

Which in itself is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. The point is is that it exists, it is not a theory – Hasbara is Israeli government policy.

https://archive.li/2022.06.11-231555/https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2022-01-26/ty-article-magazine/.premium/this-anti-bds-initiative-failed-so-israel-throws-another-100-million-nis-at-it/0000017f-db50-df9c-a17f-ff58b4110000

Double post

Here’s an excellent up-to-date Jewish conspiracy theory in which a fabulously wealthy Jew is secretly paying vast amounts of money to so-called activists to do his political bidding and undermine western democratic institutions.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13353941/George-soros-paying-left-wing-activists-college-protest-camp.html

Will the Daily Mail and the New York Post be denounced by the CAA for spreading yet more conspiracy theories concerning Holocaust survivor George Soros?

Of course not, George Soros is the wrong sort of Jew. Just like all the other Jews who are being arrested in the United States.

Also interesting what’s happening on US uni campuses.

I agree with you, Ernie…. It’s relevant, but for me it’s all a bit “look, a squirrel” or dead cat. Whilst others are arguing amongst themselves whether antisemitism is taking place, Isreal gets to do things it shouldn’t because everyone is distracted.

If the story of Gideon or the reaction on US campus is the big talking point then no one is talking about what Israel is doing.

****

ISR

Well we are going to have to disagree on that one.  I believe that smashing the anti-semitism myth is hugely important. Yes of course the zionists use it as a distraction and to bat away criticism of Israel but their whole Hasbara strategy, which has been hugely effective in the past, is collapsing all around them – precisely because it is being challenged head-on.

And if you think this is the end of Gideon Falter and the publicity he generates for CAA think again. Tomorrow there is another pro-Palestine demo in Central London and we have been warned via social media by Ben Jamal of PSC that there will be a static counter demonstration, probably near Piccadilly, and also a pro-Israeli march organised by CAA. The aim of course is to provoke a reaction but last time they were totally ignored, I can’t imagine that it will be any different tomorrow – although Gideon Falter will obviously try his best.

Anyway if you like videos alpin I suggest focusing more on  lovely heart-warming ones like this one:

Just watched the latest Politics Joe interview with Norman Finkelstein on YouTube, he’s made it his life’s work to study the Israel/Gaza situation. I’ll refrain from posting what he considers the current state of Isreal and its political leaders (and a large swath of the population) to be as it’d probably get the thread closed so go and watch it.

Damn, so close but Ben-Gvir was only slightly injured

@ernielynch

I agree with you totally on this.

Interesting report on the most recent The Rest is Politics episode (#241), about halfway through about the US campuses and the support for Isreal waning in the States.

According to apparently reliable Met sources Yaxley-Lennon is expected to turn up in London tomorrow. The CAA won’t be happy with that – televised support from drunken thugs isn’t something which they relish.

New tactic by the antisemitism/pro zionist protest group. Announce a protest march, then cancel it citing that their protestors would possibly be at risk of attack or harm.

I don’t think there is ever any credible evidence, but it allows them to further claim the anti war protestors are the problem, and if they cannot protest, then they shouldn’t be able to either.

Comments section as per usual for the JP is extremist spouting claptrap.

https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-798825

https://x.com/PSCupdates/status/1783831744153891109

https://news.met.police.uk/images/27-april-enough-is-enough-static-protest-location-dot-jpg-3015453

The Met Police don’t appear to be expecting a huge turnout for the static pro-Israeli protest tomorrow!

The absolute *****baggery of that article in the Jerusalem Post… Standouts:

“Due to the thousands of people now intending to join and then walk where they please – something that we used to take for granted in London as Jewish people without having to discuss with police ahead of time”. Oh the exact same restrictions on demonstrations that every single march and protest in London faces? The inhumanity! How dare you apply that to us “as jewish people” too.

And “It is a pity that those of our members who wanted to walk on this Shabbat with Gideon Falter will not have the opportunity to do so” BECAUSE THE ORGANISERS CANCELLED IT. “It is absolutely fundamental that Jews in the UK, just like everyone else, should have the right to walk in public wherever they want. It was however good that Gideon had the opportunity to meet the Home Secretary and put forward the wholly sensible view that these hate marches should be banned.” We should have the right to walk wherever we want like everyone else NOT THEM THOUGH just everyone else except them”.

“London had become a no-go zone for British Jewry” but we were going to hold a march there and now we’re going to go to the static demo instead but it’s definitely a no-go area.

I have not posted on this topic because I have no words to express the situation in Gaza other than saying that the entire world is taking note.

The two states solution is no longer a solution put it this way.

The two state solution is a comfort blanket that we have clung on to for a generation or more now.

I mentioned it earlier but surely a two state solution would lead to a similar situation that occurred with the creation of East and West Pakistan. It lasted for a bit until it became a three state solution.

It’s interesting to compare the creation of Israel with he creation of Pakistan,.Both created within a year of each other for a religious minority group as the British empire fell.

That’s not to say that the Palestinians shouldn’t have there own state, just that things wouldn’t work out the way the two state solution implies. It wouldn’t be a solution in itself, just a stepping stone towards another crisis in the making.

On today’s demo. She is actually Palestinian.

Journalists silenced for standing up against Israel? Shurely not – that must be an antisemitic trope – Jewish control of the media and all that. Meanwhile, BBC director Robbie Gibb is (nominally anyway) owner of the Jewish Chronicle. Or is he?

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/ideas/media/65839/who-really-funds-the-jewish-chronicle-why-its-troubling-that-we-dont-know

Have I missed this, in which case my apologies…

In addition to the International Court of Justice (ICJ) investigating genocide, the International Criminal Court (ICC) has been considering issuing warrants for over a week to Benjamin Netanyahu and others https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/netanyahu-says-icc-decisions-will-not-affect-israels-actions-set-dangerous-2024-04-26/

That’s one of the later articles, but I first saw it here https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahus-office-hosts-emergency-talks-on-feared-icc-warrants-for-pm-ministers/

Investigations into Palestinian allegations have been ongoing for years. Reporters without Borders lodged complaints a few months ago https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-journalists-international-court-investigation-ef7ec4fa597add8fb49d17358acf2576

Meanwhile, BBC director Robbie Gibb is (nominally anyway) owner of the Jewish Chronicle. Or is he?

Are you sure that the former editor of the Guardian who wrote that article, Alan Rusbridger, isn’t a Jewish conspiracy theorist?

Apparently everyone’s at it.

bloody tough read 🙁 

the IDF are a bunch of genocidal maniacs. It’s funny the best game theory stratagem is called Tit-for-Tat… its a bit of a misnomer as it breaks down to Be Nice but don’t be a push over and don’t hold a grudge.

the IDF are a bunch of genocidal maniacs.

The current Israeli government are doing the nation no favours with how they have allowed and instructed the IDF to have free reign in Gaza, every single aid agency have been calling them out from the start of the conflict yet all we appear to get from our elected officials is a “shrug” of the shoulders and a few pithy soundbites.

The twitter feed below “Eye on Palestine” is worth a follow, often quoted by C4, CNN, ABC news, etc..

Cant embed twitter link for some reason?……

Originally I was somewhat sceptical of reports that international arrest warrants for the arrest of Netanyahu and co were being prepared as the sources were Palestinian, and I thought they might be over optimistic.

But now Israeli newspapers are suggesting that the Israeli government are taking it very seriously:

https://www.jns.org/icc-may-issue-arrest-warrants-for-israeli-officials-this-week/#:~:text=An%20emergency%20meeting%20was%20held,the%20arrest%20of%20Israelis%20abroad.

This is particularly interesting:

“The ICC would not be considering issuing arrest warrants for senior Israeli officials without the approval of the United States, Channel 12 reported last week, citing senior sources associated with the court.”

The suggestion is that the Israeli government is now putting intense pressure on the Biden administration, which might of course work.

But with the opposition to the IDF’s campaign in Gaza growing at an alarming rate across the United States how wise would it be for Biden to prop up a deeply unpopular Israeli politician during a presidential election year?

Good interview with Yama Wolamsal of the Norwegian Broadcasting Corporation grilling David Mencer regarding the situation in Gaza.

Mencer does not like being questioned, that is clear to see

Good interview with Yama Wolamsal of the Norwegian Broadcasting Corporation grilling David Mencer regarding the situation in Gaza.

Lucky for Wolamsal he doesn’t work for a UK news organisation or he’d find himself taken off the air for having the effrontery to challenge an Israeli spokesman.

Nah…..that’d never happen would it?, in this great country we have a truly free and honest press that do fantastic investigative work, just look at Laura Kuenssberg for example, a goddamm news saint in the making.

As an example of another line of questioning this current live whitehouse press briefing on the Israeli units that committed rapes/killings etc in the West Bank prior to Oct 7th is quite revealing….for what the whitehouse spokesperson isn’t saying, the person giving the briefing is being ripped to shreds over his evasive answers, he looks like he’s about to start crying

Mencer does not like being questioned, that is clear to see

Worth noting that Mencer used to be part of Labour Friends Of Israel leadership.

Here’s a good discussion with Bassem Youssef on Mehdi Hussan new podcast, amusing, informative and educational.

He really couldn’t give a flying **** for the hostages nor for the civilians in Gaza, or as he calls them – “rats”, and I believe Netanyahu is now hell bent on destroying everything in his way.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has said Israel will launch an invasion of the southern Gaza city of Rafah regardless of truce talks with Hamas

He doesn’t give a flying **** about Israel either. The damage that Netanyahu is doing to Israel in incalculable. Never did I imagine that he could turn Israel into an  international pariah so quickly.

For years his Likud party and his far-right neo fascist allies have done everything possible to ban the flying of the Palestinian flag, as they try to ethnically and culturally cleanse Palestine of its indigenous people, and yet today it is the most flown flag anywhere in the world. From the streets of Europe to the university campuses of the United States to research stations in the Antarctic.

NEW: ALL SEVEN CONTINENTS HAVE STUDENT GAZA SOLIDARITY PROTESTS 🤯 https://t.co/BVJxZbcd76 pic.twitter.com/4tX2ODKfZW

— Saul (@saaaauuull) April 30, 2024

An ambulance driver from the Palestinian Red Crescent Society was killed while transporting Palestinians injured in an attack by settlers in the West Bank on Saturday, the Palestinian Ministry of Health said.

At what point do we consider Israeli settlers and the IDF terrorists?

Netanyahu seems to have had a very clear definition of what terrorism is

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/5/3/icc-calls-for-an-end-to-threats-against-the-court-as-war-in-gaza-rages-on

I genuinely don’t understand why the western media aren’t reporting the claims by the International Criminal Court that its officials are being threatened and intimidated, even sections of the Israeli media are reporting it.

Presumably it is because the suspected perpetrators of the attempted intimidation are American and Israeli government officials?

It is interesting that both the United States and Israel appear to be so concerned about the International Criminal Court  when neither country recognises its jurisdiction.

It doesn’t matter whether they recognise it, regardless of diplomatic status, they can’t go anywhere that does