Some good news. Will it survive a Trump trade deal?

Fracking banned in UK as government makes major U-turn

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/nov/02/fracking-banned-in-uk-as-government-makes-major-u-turn?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

fantastic news

Yeah let’s see how long it lasts if the tories get a majority, this isn’t a ban, it is a pause. They are just playing for the election

Temporary according to Corbyn

I wonder what could possibly cause them to put a temporary ban on.

The government said it would not agree to any future fracking “until compelling new evidence is provided”

Classic NIMBY’ism by the UK.

We don’t want fracking because it’s bad, solution; we import fracked gas from 5000 miles away.

Will it survive a Trump trade deal?

Probably, America is booming as they’re exporting energy in the form of fracked gas for the first time (ever, recent history, long time can’t recall). Why would they want an energy independent trading partner?

Will it survive a Trump trade deal?

Yes. Why would it be in USA interests for us to be producing more homegrown has? Now, if Johnson has any sense “promises” on renewables should follow during this campaign to misstep the other parties. He’s not to be trusted though, obvs.

About as believable as their commitment to the NHS.

(Temporary) smoke and mirrors.

Remember George Osbourne promising tens of billions of pounds of investment in transport in the north?

All cancelled about half a millisecond after they won the election.

All Johnson’s ‘promises’ will be the same

It’s also worth noting that to say fracking in Lancashire isn’t going well would be a huge understatement. They just keep causing earth tremors and having to shut it all down

If only anyone could have predicted that happening, eh? 🙄

Yes. Why would it be in USA interests for us to be producing more homegrown gas

So that gas can be converted into plastics by US-owned chemicals companies and then sold into the UK and EU, and avoid having to pay to ship all that plastic across the planet?

To be fair the threshold for a tremor shutting it down is “someone dropping a shopping bag”. OK I concede that any tremors are potentially bad, but there’s a level of hysteria involved.

Maybe, but the fact is that there’s no actual fracking taking place anyway, so it’s like saying they’re suspending the planned UK moon landings

So that gas can be converted into plastics by US-owned chemicals companies and then sold into the UK and EU, and avoid having to pay to ship all that plastic across the planet?

There are 3 ethylene crackers in the UK.

Wilton is owned by the Saudis.
Grangemouth is owned by INEOS
Fife is owned by a JV of Shell and ExxonMobil

So only ~1/6th of the capacity is US owned.

but there’s a level of hysteria involved.

Good.

My immediate reaction was that this was a temporary vote winning stunt.

Yes the shutdown level is 0.5, but it is slightly concerning that one tiny UK site has already caused multiple tremors up to 2.9. What happens with a big industrial setup?

Fracking should be our last resort option – leave the stuff underground until it is desperately needed in hundreds (?) of years time. Not just using it to sustain current lifestyles. Unfortunately politics doesn’t look very far into the future…..

Given that the Tory government changed the planning laws specifically so that they could over-rule councils like Lancashire and impose fracking on them, I don’t think this stunt is going to wash with many people

I hope you’re right binners

Only, as has been said above, it’s not really a ban, more like a pause till the ge is done with.
Still, at least it’s a step in the right direction.
I fail to see in this day and age of renewables how there can be any justification for developing any more ways of extracting carbon based fossil fuels of any type

There was me trusting a Tory.

/banned.

I fail to see in this day and age of renewables how there can be any justification for developing any more ways of extracting carbon based fossil fuels of any type

Capitalism.

There’s two ways out of this hole, one is a market intervention by the government to subsidise renewables and tax fossil fuels. The other is action by consumers to reduce demand for fossil fuels. I support both. The energy/chemicals companies are just supplying a demand in the most capitalist way. If you stopped asking for it, they’d stop supplying it.

You can’t fill your car with fuel or turn the heating on at home then complain that a company is prepared to meet that demand!

I fail to see in this day and age of renewables

We are a long way from a ‘day and age of renewables’.

Unfortunately to really stop fracking in this country it’ll need a tremor involving deaths, massive infrastructure damage or a water table pollution/corruption.  “A bunch of left wing greenies” holding placards and blocking roads is just an annoyance to the powers that be.

You make it sound like the energy and petrochemical industry actively wants to kill people?

and avoid having to pay to ship all that plastic across the planet?

But… the whole point of a UK/USA trade deal is to increase shipping stuff across the planet. No reason at all the USA will insist that we produce more here rather than there when it comes to a trade deal. Of course, you still can’t trust UK politicians on this, especially the current crew running the Conservative Party… there’s money to be made, and laws can be changed to get things going again the other side of the election (when you also won’t be seeing most of those promised new hospitals either, or… etc, etc).

I have concluded that we should put a moratorium on fracking in England with immediate effect

-Andrea Leadsom

moratorium
/ˌmɒrəˈtɔːrɪəm/

noun
a temporary prohibition of an activity.

 “A bunch of left wing greenies” holding placards and blocking roads is just an annoyance to the powers that want to be.

FIFM

I have concluded that we should put a moratorium on fracking in England with immediate effect

Same approach as adopted in Scotland. Don’t ask me the details but it seems it was easier to adopt a temporary ban than a permanent one as it avoided long and costly legal battles.

(Of course, the Scottish Conservatives complained about it at the time. I can’t wait to see what they have to say about it now).

Yeah let’s see how long it lasts if the tories get a majority, this isn’t a ban, it is a pause. They are just playing for the election

yup, that’s what I thought too.

Capitalism

Would you prefer communism.., sorry i meant socialism.

Would you prefer communism.., sorry i meant socialism.

It’s not an either:or question. Capitalism needs controls or most of us would be slaves.

It’s not an either:or question. Capitalism needs controls or most of us would be slaves.

Don’t talk such sense.

Clearly I meant the entire population of the North West should sent to the gulags for enforced re education.

As a bit of a leftie with concerns about the environment I probably do confuse andypaul and his black and white world view by working in the petrochemicals industry.

Another Cameron policy hits the buffers. He really was **** useless.

I live 3 miles from the frack site in Lancs , never felt any of the tremors , most are undetectable even if you were stood directly above at the time.

The eco zealots are a pain in the arse though ,often stood in the middle of a busy primary route into the Fylde Coast  waving their placards around , oblivious to the hazard they pose to themselves & traffic , has cost the county police millions over the last 2 years of demos shepherding the protestors.

I wish they would all just piss off to be honest as they have had bugger all effect in halting the operation.

I live within a couple of miles as well. I’ve never felt the tremors myself but know loads of people who have. There’s stories of things falling over, furniture moving and cracked Windows etc’. And that’s not just in the nearby hamlets and villages, but all the nearby towns as well. The tremors happen within hours of them starting test-fracks so it’s hard to know what would happen if they went ahead and carried out the full process.

thisisnotaspoon

Subscriber
Classic NIMBY’ism by the UK.

How far are fracking sites from urban areas in the US?

The problem here is they’e never going to be very far from local residents.

I think people are right to be concerned that tremors happen as soon as they start.

This is obviously an election gimmick

It’ll be back on by January

That said it’s fine to cause tremors in the empty expanses in north Americas shale sands

But everyone would become a nimby if your house started wobbling underneath you because of fracking nearby

Of course they’re not fracking underneath Godalming or Windsor
They’re doing it near blackpool with the most deprived wards in the country , which is why when the election is over there will be joke review & it’ll be back on.

This is a double win for Tories , boosts their green potential & curries favour in some labour leave seats.

Of course they’re not fracking underneath Godalming

To be fair, they were looking to frack only a few miles away at leith hill

And I’ll bet a shiny 50 Brexit 50p coin they never frack under there

The sheer density of retired lawyers, judges etc homes to be effected would cause a legal tsunami

Of course they’re not fracking underneath Godalming

No, but the Surrey hills is the 5th largest onshore oil field in the Uk. And there is drilling.

Torys before the last election where crazy mad for a bit of northern powerhouse action, didnt they promise the electrification of the transpennine railway and them mugged us off the second they didnt need the votes. only an idiot would believe anything a tory says.