Looking at a new bike, 36 Performance as stock (not the Elite) but wondering if the Grip2 Kashima is a worthy upgrade for £309?
Aware it's £499 inc a service from Silverfish but just trying to get my head round if it's worthwhile. I know it adds more adjustment and the Kashima is harder wearing..
I love grip2 more than the standard grip, but wouldn’t love it enough to pay 500 quid over the standard, you can do a lot of upgrades more beneficial for that, and if you can set up the forks properly it’ll barely be noticeable, unless you’re a proper racer and need those extra compress features.
hell no
Depends on the rider- Grip is a good damper but it lacks adjustment, if you're lucky enough to be in that adjustment range then it's really very good, if you're not then it means a pro rebuild or a swap. I couldn't get a decent setup out of it for me but I was still impressed. And to be fair I'm out of the grip 2's ideal zone too!
(tbf I dont think either grip or grip 2 is a very good oe damper- not because of performance but purely because of that narrower range of adjustment, there are riders that it'll just not work for)
I doubt kashima is any better than the black in reality. If it were me I'd go grip, and have the budget for upgrades if it doesn't work out. And if you're lucky and can get an ideal setup from the grip then that's a win (and spend it on a coil
The grip 2 damper is bloody amazing, definitely worth a £500 upgrade, so a bargain at £300. Superb performance and manages the magic effect of working without fault. I can setup my 36 and 38 to feel plush on small stuff while still being firm pressure/support for g-outs or big hits.
GRIP2 has very little adjustment and is really soft.
GRIP is soft but has a lot more adjustment.
I would stick with what you are running. Why would you want to swap the damper before you have even ridden the bike?
It's a upgrade at point of order, so not something I can do later at the reduced price.
I have limited time on an older 36 Performance which was maybe a Rhythm/Grip fork. It was grand but my Lyrik Ultimate is better I think.
I'm 75kg +2/3kg for riding kit if it matters..
If you don’t go for the upgrade, what damper is on the fork?
Interesting to hear about narrow range of adjustment, not been a problem for me. I always kind of thought the opposite, I have a setting I love ( the trek recommended not the fox one) and the moment I go even one click away from that on anything I think it’s worse!
I’m 70kgs kitted up and love mine, I would say it’s sensitive to service schedule though. I start to get more hand/arm pump really noticeably after about 11 months to remind me to service it! So deffo only do it if you are happy to keep on top of that.
Happy with servicing, and do frequent lower services on the current RS forks I run.
The stock forks are the Grip 3 position, so descend/trail/climb I assume..
There are a few other spec option changes that can be made but this is the one i'm not sure on with very limited Fox experience. I can't see myself buying Factory Fox aftermarket further down the line as the costs are a bit mental now..
Float X on the rear.
Some of the Grip 3 position are really Grip sweep... you can set the compression damping to anything between climb/descend. Check. That's a great damper. It's hard to tell what you'll get with OEM without checking.
Personally I'd spend that £309, just because the price of the Factory forks has gone nutty.
What's the cost-to-change if you sell the stock fork as new, and replace it with a fork you'd prefer?
Personally I wouldn't pay £500 to upgrade from Grip to Grip 2, if I've understood the proposition correctly.
If I upgrade when ordering the bike it's £309 to go to the 36 Factory with Kashima and Grip2.
Outgoing Lyrik Ultimates are still around £650 so I guess maybe £150/200 to change if I just took the 36 Performance off and sold them when new.
Probably closer to £450 on top for new Lyrik.
£499 is the cost for a full service and Grip2 upgrade at Silverfish. That wouldn't be changing the uppers for Kashima obv but the internals are more important.
Not 100% sure if they will be the latest 2022/2023 Fox 36 Factory but I'm not overly concerned about that.
Happy with servicing, and do frequent lower services on the current RS forks I run.
New Fox is not as simple as RS to service. The airspring is housed inside a tube which requires a number of special (and expensive) tools to take apart.
ETA - Lies! It's just the 38 that's like this.
If I upgrade when ordering the bike it’s £309 to go to the 36 Factory with Kashima and Grip2.
This seems like a no-brainer to me. I would definitely do it.
More importantly, what's the bike?
I can't compare grip to Grip2, but Grip2 is better than a charger 2.0 or 2.1 IMO.
Grip2 doesn't seem to have a massive range of adjustment, but seems to be in the right zone unless you want to do something outlandish with fork behaviour.
Where it really shines is when pushing on. It becomes a lovely fluttery, responsive fork that is at odds with its average JRA performance. Unlike previous RS offerings (I dont have any experience of charger 3), Grip2 seems to remain unflappable and consistent at the top end of performance where you really do want the damn thing to work nice.
^ this. Grip2 seems to work better when really pushed at or above my personal limits.
For more normal riding I would rate DT F535 on my previous bike bit higher, I think F535 limits were somewhere beyond my riding skills but still there.
Other issues with Grip2 have somwhow needing to reset settings occasionally (is it possible that they change during riding?) and need to vent the lowers via buttons quite often. It seems that damper side sucks in air and dirt, the foam rings are much dirtier on that side.
~Some of the Grip 3 position are really Grip sweep… you can set the compression damping to anything between climb/descend. Check. That’s a great damper. It’s hard to tell what you’ll get with OEM without checking
Yup, I’ve got 38 Performance Forks with the GRIP damper. There’s 3 settings but also 3-4 additional clicks between each so you can effectively set the compression damping over a number of clicks (but not the adjustability of high and low speed).
I think it's the FIT4 damper that just does the 3 position settings.
Yeah, that indexed one is ANOTHER variant of the more basic Grip damper. But the point is, don't assume that because it's got three labelled positions, it's only got three settings. I replaced a FIT4 with basic Grip... in theory a downgrade... but not really. I do tend to run it fully open though anyway. The FIT4 also has effectively more than 3 settings by the way... because the third setting is adjustable. Never used mine though... was keen to get the Grip in there from new (fan of the Marzocchi tech it's based on).
i think its the grip damper in the 38's on the bike i've been lent by the shop while waiting for a frame warrenty. it's terrible compared to my factory 36's(2018 so HSC/LSC not grip2), just way to harsh on the rough stuff and my hands and arms start to suffer really quickly.
rebound adjustment isn't good either, i run it 2 clicks from full slow which is still reasonbly quick(about right for me) but 1 click slower its extremly slow and by less than half way out it's so fast. all my past forks somewhere in the middle of the adjustment range has been about right.
@kelvin - I'd be interested to know what you experience is of the Fox GRIP set up? Mine's a 170mm, if I set up with Fox's recommended 20% sag I found I was getting nowhere near full travel, so ran about 30% sag, but still not getting full travel (I was out in Morzine so plenty of bumps, but I suppose no massive drops / nose heavy landings). I took out one of the 2 volume spacers for the last day, but still not getting full travel. Will play a bit more with pressures and maybe even remove final spacer, but I'm not a light rider (80kg with kit) and having to go much lower than the recommended air pressure. Also found that the first 10mm or so of travel has very little resistance, almost feels like loose bushings or headset when rocking with the brake on.
I've come from a Lyrik Ultimate which seemed to be happier to give up its travel (but still had decent mid stroke support).
I only get full travel when I'm breathing a sigh of relief that I "got away with that". I do run much lower pressures than recommended. I am not a rowdy or fast rider. I presume that the recommended pressures assume that you are (wiser than starting people on too low a pressure I suppose). I'm much the same weight as you.
almost feels like loose bushings or headset when rocking with the brake on
But not when sagged, I presume. You want that initial travel to be "too easy"... lots of work goes into make it so.
at roughly 20% sag i would usually use all but the last inch of travel and occaisionally on a very big hit use it all, that was at 92psi. i tried it yesterday after dropping 3psi out of it and it felt a little better but i used nearly all the travel on a track i wouldn't have expected to.
i'm hoping to get my bike back very soon so can't really be bothered to spend to much time and effort getting it right
Thanks both.
I think I'lll stick with the one spacer in there at the moment and have a play with pressures. I haven't have that 'moment' when wanting that extra bit of travel yet, I seemed to not use the final 1.5 inches of travel thus far which seems like a lot not to use, but I do need to measure where on the fork the 170mm max travel line is.
Can't say I found the fork harsh though, and there were plenty of braking bumps in Morzine (and I rode the 10% chute a couple of times too), perhaps down to running the forks softer than recommended (compression fully open and rebound as per recommended settings).
Oh... you'll be pushing your forks FAR harder then me then!
Forks feel good... your settings are right... don't get hung up on using all the travel.