Football – 2023/24 Season

Newcastles subs cost £150 million, this is roughly equal to  the annual sky TV money. The so called riches of the Premier league gets you very very little now.

Sheffield United is up for sale for less than that the Newcastle subs.  Sheffield united have tried to recruit within their means.  They don’t offer 8 year contracts,  spend beyond their means and stockpile players like forest have done,  or blatently breach FFP.   Sheffield United aren’t owned by a multi billionaire or bankrolled by a. Middle eastern country.

Yes Sheffield united were bad today, but, honestly, how can they compete?  To say they are the worst PL for god knows how long is an over statement. Have you watched the other 5 games this season, in which they have only been narrowly beaten, or is this based on a single game, where the players may have had the death of Maddy Cusack on their minds? It’s easy for fans to criticise anti football or parking the bus, but this is the tactic needed to have a small chance. Today’s score is the product of trying to go toe to toe with the Saudi investment. Fund.

There is no point being promoted now unless you are willing to risk the future of the club to finish 17th.  This isn’t sport.

Just a bit of a freak result – as you say Sheffield United have done ok in their other games, came the closest anyone’s got this season to taking a point off Man City. More expensively assembled sides than them have took similar beatings, Liverpool v United last year and also when Villa stuck seven past Liverpool. And Newcastle aren’t that good, they overachieved last year and I’ll be surprised if they’re top four again this season.

<p style=”text-align: left;”>The blades played OK at spurs.  The set out to waste time and every goal kick was painful,  they all took far too long hence 11 minutes added time.   They kicked long but,  once the ball was on the ground they tried to make opportunities and took them.  I’ve seen far far worse teams, Watford comes to mind.</p>

I followed Sheffield United quite a bit last season as they had two City players on loan. It must be very difficult to change from being one of the most dominant teams in your division to one of the strugglers but they been in contention in most of their games so far.

I would ignore the result against Newcastle. Games like that happen occasionally and don’t always mean the team is doomed. Bournemouth lost 9-0 against Liverpool last season but won the reverse fixture and stayed up. In time having been at that match will become a badge of honour amongst Blades fans.

To say they are the worst PL for god knows how long is an over statement.

Ok, let me correct myself, that was the worst performance by any team I’ve seen against us in god knows how long. Happy now? We were average in the first 30 mins and yet were 3 up whilst hardly breaking a sweat. Then Sheffield rolled over and gave up in the second half. A schoolboy performance quite frankly and could easily have been 10 or more if Wilson had his shooting boots on.

There is no point being promoted now unless you are willing to risk the future of the club to finish 17th. This isn’t sport.

It takes a while. No small club is going to come up from the championship and then establish themselves immediately. It takes a few seasons of yo-yoing or scrapping at the bottom, building incrementally. That’s what the likes of Brighton and Brentford, Wolves, Burnley and Bournemouth have done. These are all championship clubs who have made the jump to the higher level and sustained it. Looks very much like a sporting success story to me.

Newcastle aren’t that good, they overachieved last year

I love it when we are under-estimated. Happened a lot last season and the start of this. Howe’s job perceived as being under threat in some sensationalist, desperate for sales, newspapers, but after the first 4 fixtures we were only a point worse off than last season. We’re badly missing Willock, Joelinton is still injured and Tonali and Barnes just finding their feet.

Top 5 is a perfectly reasonable possibility this year (it’s top 5 for the Champions League this season onwards thanks to their stupid expanded format by the way).

It was a freak result in all honesty but deciding to play without a holding midfielder of any sort certainly caused Sheffield United’s own downfall. They’re a proper club and I hope they stay up but their players need to put a shift in every single game and even that was lacking once we scored.

The goal posts have changed significantly since Bournemouth, Brentford, wolves etc got promoted.   When they went up,  decent players didn’t cost an arm and a leg and weren’t commanding  today’s astronomical wages.  As such, they could build a squad of Premier league quality players.

Nowadays,  untested Premier league reserve players are costing 40 million, even championship players are 20 million plus. Three to four of these and the sky TV money has gone as this has not been raised in line with player costs. The alternative is recruiting lower league or unknown foreign players and hoping they make the grade.

Trying to build a competitive squad under these conditions, whilst trying to remain sustainable, is extremely difficult and the odds of success are diminishing, season by season. Building in relegation wage clauses into a players contract, to try and protect the club, means players will look elsewhere

Bournemouth and wolves are feeling the impact now that investment has slowed and the reality of the current financial situation bites.

Add to that the possible abolition of parachute payments and there is no hope.  The Premier league may as well become a closed shop.

Of the promoted teams I’ve been most surprised with Burnley, given how they ran away with the championship last season. Often seems this way though when a team comes up playing open, attacking football. I thought Kompany might have been more willing to adapt though and be a bit more pragmatic.

These are all championship clubs who have made the jump to the higher level and sustained it. Looks very much like a sporting success story to me.

Definitely more of a success story than being bought by a petro-state, which is of course a testament to nothing other than £££££££

I think that Burnly had quite a few loanees last year, that they don’t have this year, I think losing  Taylor Harwood-Bellis and Ian Maatson in defense probably had an impact in how they play as a unit.

I was quite surprised no PL team made an offer for Taylor Harwood-Bellis, he is a young defender who is already showing a lot of leadership qualities. For the under 21’s in the summer Levi Colwill might have been the stand out defender, but I think he needed that leadership and organisation alongside him to allow him to shine.

which is of course a testament to nothing other than £££££££

You do realise Newcastle’s ‘success’ last year was done with the vast majority of the players inherited from Steve Bruce who were almost certainly going to get us relegated the season before had Howe not taken over? We’ve spent far less than most other teams in the top 6 and less than some others who are scrapping against relegation (Everton basically). If you think where the toon are now is solely down to money then you’re deluded.

That’s not entirely true dazh (and I say that as a Newcastle fan)

Trippier, Guimares, Burn, Pope and Botman are all Eddie signings in the regular starting 11, but total cost about 95M and all were in place prior to 22/23 season. Schar, Almiron, Wilson, Longstaff, Willock and Joelinton (the rest of the starting 11 normally) were all here before.

Isak joined just into last season (for £60M ish) and then we’ve added further since.

But if you count Gordon as starting given he was on after 10 mins, 10 of the starting 11 were inherited or low cost pick-up’s at the start of his reign (we were hardly in bidding wars for them) and the 11th, new boy Gordon that made a huge difference came for £38M or so and Everton fans were laughing at us for wasting our money.

Eddie and Jason have turned those also-rans into contenders, alongside some very astute business without smashing any transfer records.  €14M for Trippier and €10M for Pope – you can’t get some 17 year olds for that.

but total cost about 95M and all were in place prior to 22/23 season

Which is mostly what I was talking about. Winning a CL place after flirting with relegation and only spending ~100-150M can not be described as ‘buying success’.

You have to put most of the blame for the inflated prices of players this year at Chelsea’s door. £115m for Caicedo, £42m for Cole Palmer, £89m for Mudryk….However, that’s just as unsustainable. All on long contracts with wages no-one in their right mind would match. Not one of Boehly’s signings have increased in value (yet). It’s a hell of a gamble bearing in mind in their last 38 games (across 2 seasons) they have had 6!! wins. That’s relegation form right there and they are stuck with a massive underperforming squad. What angers me is that they’ll just flog a few failures to Saudi teams when they need capital. It’s not like Sheffield United or similar could do the same.

I understand @teenrat’s point though. Just wait til the FA Cup 3rd round and how few upsets we get these days. Even when the Premier League teams play a reserve team.

Which is mostly what I was talking about. Winning a CL place after flirting with relegation and only spending ~100-150M can not be described as ‘buying success’.

I wholeheartedly agree. Plenty as you say have spent loads more and don’t have a ‘team’ to show for it. All credit Eddie and Jason T for that (and why I was majorly pissed off that after the recent losses, against three very good sides don’t forget, some halfwits were speculating if Eddie has reached his ceiling)

It’s clear that football is a business where there is a close correlation between spend and success.  Yes of course you need to spend wisely but at the end of the day,  to be a long term success you need to generate more money than most of your competitors, spend it,  and spend it well.

Last year spurs generated 125 millions euros from match days, 182 from broadcasting and 215 commercially.   Looking at previous years cl, and a run to the late stages,  brings an extra 90 million on broadcasting alone, so Big chunk and its clear why cl is so static.   Beyond success like that what can you do to up Income?  Not everyone can build a new 63k seater stadium to up matchday takings.  Sponsorship deals are limited,  opportunities for concerts etc also limited but spurs have definitely maximised that with the stadium.  I’ve said it before and still worry that as the finances get so big 2 things happen.  First the competition degrades as the gap between rich and poor clubs grows,  and second the chances of a club doing a Leeds or worse increase,  as the temptation to over reach becomes so big.

Not just spend (I know, it all forms part of spend) but the Newcastle documentary showed a graph where there’s an almost linear relationship between wage bill and league position.

Then it comes down to whether you have a lot of players on similar wages, or a few superstars but then have to compensate with some lower profile players. Or if you have enough income as NN said you can have superstars and then a load of other stars as well and still balance the FFP

You do realise Newcastle’s ‘success’ last year was done with the vast majority of the players inherited from Steve Bruce who were almost certainly going to get us relegated the season before had Howe not taken over?

I never mentioned Newcastle 🤪

Mmmm, not really. Pope, Guimares, Burn, Botman, Isak and Trippier are all Howe signings and pretty much first picks. Plus Gordon is coming on now – but I get your point about Howe’s coaching and the improvement of Gordon and many others is testament to that.

Edit – I should have read more of the replies, theotherjonv made a similar point 👍

To prove we can laugh at ourselves as well

Newcastle fans in the replies when someone criticises Saudi Arabia. pic.twitter.com/1Qfa9bxnLP

— Paddy Power (@paddypower) September 29, 2023

Bloody hell Villa! 😳

I’ve got Watkins and McGinn on my FF team too! Wish I’d have captained Watkins for today. A hatrick and 2 assists! That’s not a bad day at the office

I’m going to have to ditch my irrational hatred of Villa which goes back to the Paul Lambert era and watching them bring out turgid 0-0 draws every week

What a job Emery has done there!

Come on the villa!!!

I had a feeling this was going to happen today. We play Palace on Tuesday and TH rests some ‘big’ players, puts the kids (and Harry Maguire) out and we hammer them. A few days later he puts the ‘First’ team out against the same squad, with them having had a week off, and we’re absolutely ****ing woeful!

Hmmmmmmmm…. what lessons can we take from this?

Looks to me like the Billy Big Bollocks players are downing tools again as they have done repeatedly in the past to get shut of managers. I know Sancho is officially on strike, Ten Hag having the audacity to ask him to actually do his ****ing job, but it looks like most of our ‘First’ team has walked out in sympathy.

I’d put the ****ing lot of the bone idle, overpaid prima donnas on the transfer list tomorrow and let the under 21’s play the next game

**** hell Gary Neville, it’s quite clear. Whether he meant to ‘do him’ or not, whether Curtis Jones is ‘not that sort of player’, whether his foot ‘skimmed off the top of the ball’ – is irrelevant. Did his challenge endanger the safety of his opponent (yes, it hit him halfway up the calf) and was it careless, reckless and/or with excessive force (including being with the sole of the foot / studs)

Clear yeses so clear red card. What the law was in the olden days or intent is not relevant, if you’re going to commentate on the game at least know the law.

Imagine how well Liverpool would be doing if they didn’t get someone sent off every other game? 😂

I was there binners and it was awful,

I was there on Tuesday as well and I thought exactly the same as you, that Roy was playing rope-a-dope. Palace weren’t even playing for a draw on Tuesday, it looked really calculated, throw the cup game, give United supporters a bit of false hope and try for a result in the league.

Still, with Olise and Eduard out, I thoight a draw was the best they could hope for and that they’d be delighted with that but it seems Ten Haag was more than happy to hold Hodgson’s beer for him.

Eze was ace though but helped by United’s decision to give him the freedom of Old Trafford, I presume the man of the match award was shaped like a key?

Best performance by the Albion I’ve seen for a while, beating high flying PNE at their place, four goals, clean sheet 👏👏

@inkster – Palace never turned up on Tuesday, but I can’t understand why TH keeps starting players who look like they really just can’t be arsed (again!) when there’s young  players chomping at the bit to get out there

I can’t fathom why Garnacho isn’t starting every game?

**** hell Gary Neville, it’s quite clear. Whether he meant to ‘do him’ or not, whether Curtis Jones is ‘not that sort of player’, whether his foot ‘skimmed off the top of the ball’ – is irrelevant. Did his challenge endanger the safety of his opponent (yes, it hit him halfway up the calf) and was it careless, reckless and/or with excessive force (including being with the sole of the foot / studs)

Yeah, same with Redknapp, of course it wasn’t meant to hurt the player, but it was studs up and for me a clear leg breaker challenge, they tend to happen with that kind of challenge, you over hit the ball then go after it when it’s just not winnable.

Weird day anyway, Man City losing, ManU being ManU, Luton getting their first EPL win, Brighton getting humped again, it’s a really weird league just now.

As for ManU Binners, i have a feeling it’s more manager than players, there’s just too many players who tend to be pretty easy going who are looking annoyed, something’s not right in the backroom there.

It’s very possible it’s the manager and the players. It’s obvious it’s not a happy dressing room, but all that matters is that it’s a total shambles on the pitch. They just look clueless!

We’re presently in tenth and probably lucky not to be 14th/15th on the strength of performances. There’s no way we’ll be threatening the top half of the table, never mind top four. It’s absolutely woeful!

they tend to happen with that kind of challenge, you over hit the ball then go after it when it’s just not winnable.

– and players just need to get it into their heads that they’ve lost the ball and don’t compound it now by getting sent off too. Same as rugby needs to relearn when and how to tackle for player safety, so does football. Which generally they have until that ^

Well Jota has been asking for that red for a while. He should have got his first yellow long before he did.

Doing that when you’re already a man down? Absolute stupidity!

It would now be the Spursiest thing ever to draw or lose to a 9 man Liverpool 😂

Not sure why Son came off, probably the best goal threat they have, Spurs are a bit light up front and i think the substitutions tell you they don’t seem to have many options.

BOOM!

Top corner, unstoppable!

At least we get to see Angry Klopp now!

What’s going on with the purple hoodies?

Mentality monsters minus Matip. Harsh obviously, and Liverpool the better side even with ten men. Thought Spurs were poor v nine but got it done in the end.

Maybe the league wont be a procession this year? City have a tough little run coming up, not a good start getting beat at Wolves.

PGMOL saying Diaz goal should have stood. VAR made the decision in about 15 seconds, compare that to the three minutes plus for Brighton’s goal v Villa. What’s the point of it if it still can’t make the correct decision?