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Fitness
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ffatiFree Member
im after a bit of advice from the STW hive mind.
I went out for a ride yesterday doing some laps of some localish downhill tracks. The tracks are pretty long steep techy affairs with hero dirt yesterday and first time out in shorts and tshirt this year was blissful!
Anyway the return up is a steep punchy tarmac road to a forest road. By the 6th lap i felt no power in my legs but not blowing hard out of my rear end if that makes sense.
I think im pretty fit. I work away and during work time i spend a lot of time on a whattbike, but this has got me thinking that i may have got sucked into the zone 2 bubble. Im fit enough to spin all day but do i need to add a bit more intensity into my week in order to have enough grrrrr to get up these repeats of punchy climbs/downhills?
mccraqueFull MemberIf you’re just sitting and spinning on the Wattbike then you’re probably right. I would definitely supplement it with intervals and full body strength work off the bike – especially if you’re barreling down Downhill tracks. Did you have snacks with you too? Makes a huge difference.
grahamt1980Full MemberYou basically did some hill intervals.
Most of my rides are a combination of short uphills followed by descents, it works out as interval training but i have seen a big increase in my fitness as a result instead of lower level constant efforts
thisisnotaspoonFree MemberDepends what you enjoy IMO. I can’t stand structured plans on the bike. I’d rather just go for a 100km ride than do a prescribed Z2 session. Or go to the velodrome and chase the fast guys if I want to see my HR in the 200’s.
If you want to get fit enough to do more than 6 DH runs (which if it’s a decent sized hill is not an insignificant amount of climbing) then the solution is probably to do more DH runs. Do it twice a week so you get some consistent benefit, and progressively overload it, 6 runs this week, 7 next week, 8 the week after, etc. Interval training won’t massively help that as you probably want to be climbing in zone 2 anyway and saving your shorter bursts for the way down.
Squats. Lots of ’em.
I’m all for squats for the sake of squats. And fully signed upto the holy trinity of bike specific workouts being squats, deadlifts and more squats.
But it’s of limited benefit for anything other than standing starts.
But based on my experience (and watching other make the same mistake) most cyclists can squat (and deadlift) weights their cores can’t handle. So if you’re considering going to the gym, start off with the lower weight variations. Bulgarian split squats, goblet squats, front squats, etc. And work on hip mobility. And do lots of planks, supermans, leg raises/flutter kicks, dragon raises, hanging leg raises, etc. Then go chasing the big number with a low bar back squat once you’re ready.
I’m all for squats but, especially for cyclist, do a lot of “pre-hab” work before you even think about putting >100kg on the bar.
ffatiFree MemberCould have done more laps but had to be home to take my daughter to her swimming lessons. Was still a good day over a 1000 meter height gain.
Im not a overly structured bike training guy but I work away for 2 weeks with no access to biking so have been trying to use the gym as a tool to have fun when im home.
I tend to have at least one gym session where i do squat, deadlift and bench. Not trying to be a bodybuilder so no bro splits just the big ones that i use for biking. And then a lot of time on the whattbike spinning in z2. The climb yesterday was not just a spin kinda one had a few points where you have to put a tocken bit of effort in on steeper gradients.
Maybe i should add a few kettlebell curcuits and some sprint efforts in to my weekly sessions? Any recommendations?
thisisnotaspoonFree MemberMaybe i should add a few kettlebell curcuits and some sprint efforts in to my weekly sessions? Any recommendations?
Kettlebell swings are a leg exercise if done correctly.
And just for fun; I’d add in maybe overhead presses*, again a leg exercise if done correctly your arms just have to lock out. You probably won’t be able to do them properly for a wile as it takes some impressive wrist and thoracic mobility to do it efficiently (barbell sits on your collarbone/delts, control the bar with your fingertips (that’s the wrist bit) in a wide grip, and then brace your core, bend your knees and launch the bar up (and head back) so you catch it above your head but inline with your spine (that’s the thoracic bit, your shoulders need to be able to rotate back that far) But it’s a good gym project if you’ve got the time (and looks impressive when you can start doing overhead squats).
FunkyDuncFree MemberBuy an e-bike?
You basically did interval training, which is great, but were you there to do interval training or enjoy the ride?
ffatiFree MemberYeah have a ebike but was out on the normal bike yesterday.
i see your point yes I guess it was a interval training session no I didn’t want a training session but seeing as i was on a time pressure I guess I ended up in a bonus training session.
cookeaaFull MemberI’ve got a Summer CX race later, and I know I’m going to be in a similar boat to the OP, I can ride for hours in Z2-Z3, dare I say it I can possibly out-descend some of the riders who’ll be banging in faster laps, but there’s enough of a climb and the combination of lacking that peak explosive strength and being a good 10kg heavier than I should be, means I already know I’ll just be making up the numbers without pace on the climbs…
I’ve recently been squeezing in a few harder polarised effort Zwift sessions (not enough), along with road/Gravel volume (read Z2), but I’ve not been doing squats or lifting because I’m not a gym type, I do have some kettle bells so I could something with those, but I honestly don’t know where to begin. Anyone got any links to good YT Videos?
BadlyWiredDogFull Memberdo i need to add a bit more intensity into my week in order to have enough grrrrr to get up these repeats of punchy climbs/downhills?
The short answer is probably yes, if you’re bothered. If you’ve been riding mostly steady, sub-threshold zone 2/endurance type stuff you’ll have limited ability to ride and recover at high intensity unless you’re genetically gifted.
The proviso is, do you care enough to make the effort? Will you enjoy it? Personally I find steady sessions on an indoor trainer mind-numbingly dull, but hard intervals a lot more engaging. Of course repeatedly doing what you had trouble with will help, but may not be practical.
Maybe i should add a few kettlebell curcuits and some sprint efforts in to my weekly sessions? Any recommendations?
On the bike, maybe 30;30s, basically sprint as fast as you can from a virtual rolling start – think going up a gradual hill – for 30 seconds, rest for 30, then repeat. Do six of those, then rest five minutes, do another set of six, rest five, and repeat. As you get stronger you can add reps to each set. Or graduate to 40:20s so you have reduced recovery. It’s very effective and has the advantage of not taking very long either. You can always do a session of those then add on an hour or zone two afterwards.
Some people enjoy training like that, others don’t, it just depends on you. It is perfectly possible to both train hard and enjoy riding a bike in a relaxed/focussed/whatever state at other times. The two aren’t mutually exclusive.
joebristolFull MemberI think you need a lecture. Zone 2 is good for low intensity all day endurance so don’t stop doing that. Gives you a fitness base.
I’ve found that sweet spot intervals build me more leg pace (higher cadence) and more power – but on a repeatable basis.
Since September ish last year I started doing a bit of zone 2 I’ve never done before and Zwift racing on the flip side. My fitness when out on the mtb has been great as a result.
marksparkFree MemberI’m not sold on the Z2 training unless you’re a pro doing 20 hours a week. For the rest of us who are probably only doing 5 or 6 hours a week stick to your 3,4 and 5 indoors and use your outdoor biking/fun as just a bike ride. And don’t get sucked in to training like a roadie if you mountain bike mainly, things like zwift etc want you to spin at 90-110rpm usually but you very rarely get there on a mtb. 300 watts at 70rpm feels very different to 100rpm
trail_ratFree MemberBut it’s of limited benefit for anything other than standing starts.
thats nonsense and you know it.
1thisisnotaspoonFree Memberthats nonsense and you know it.
I got mine upto 150kg for reps a couple of years ago before my back caved in (I never had the hips for squatting really). It made no difference to average speeds on the bike, if anything I slowed down because I was dedicating more time to the gym, and the recovery from that meant I wasn’t getting the benefit from time on the bike (riding in a group just felt like I was dragging a parachute).
There’s otherer benefits to doing squats at a lower intensity, but smooth climbing wasn’t one of them (grunting up a short section on the SS maybe).
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