F1 overrated and boring?

Carbon brakes massively shortened braking distances too. So ambitious lunges just don’t work nowadays when braking ‘event’ is at the 50m board not the 150m board! 🙂

A thought…….Hamilton must have more cash built up than he’s likely to spend in the rest of his days. With that in mind he could do anything he wanted now rather than sign for Ferrari. Given that why does he stay in F1 rather than go to another motorsport if it would be more interesting? With that logic, from a driver’s perspective at least, it must have some sort of draw other than just the cache of being the pinnacle genre.

The only thing I miss from old F1 is the jeapody of reliability. The engineering is so good these days that the cars are almost guaranteed to finish. I don’t think that allowing unlimited engine changes would change this now, the knowledge gained from having to make them work for 6 races can’t be unlearned so they would gain power but still be reliable.

Carbon brakes massively shortened braking distances too. So ambitious lunges just don’t work nowadays when braking ‘event’ is at the 50m board not the 150m board! 🙂

They certainly have helped resilience but the limiting factor remains front tyre adhesion under braking although granted that has also increased massively with aero.

The only thing I miss from old F1 is the jeapody of reliability.

Its perhaps not as bad as it was but in Australia both Hamilton and Verstappen took early baths because of technical issues…

Its perhaps not as bad as it was but in Australia both Hamilton and Verstappen took early baths because of technical issues…

True, but that was merely a blip

 I don’t think that allowing unlimited engine changes would change this now, the knowledge gained from having to make them work for 6 races can’t be unlearned so they would gain power but still be reliable.

It would be fantastically expensive, you would have to lift the cost cap on engine supplies or else the engine manufacturers would refuse to supply customer teams – without that, the customer teams would burn through 100 engines per season.

If you want more power, that would be very easy to achieve just by increasing the fuel flow rate with the current designs – they are basically limited by how much fuel is allowed. The old 80s turbos were cranking out well over 1000 bhp in qualifying trim, so it probably wouldn’t be too hard to get 1500 hp peak out of a hybrid with peak electrical deployment if the fuel flow rate was unrestricted. However, that would make it even more tyre dependent because it would just cook the rear tyres. So, you’d end up with drivers having to conserve their tyres in qualifying just to last one lap, plus teams underfueling and driving several seconds off the pace in the race to keep the tyres alive.

Formula 1 has always had periods of one team dominating a season or two, even back in the 70’s. But you had jeopardy, would the engine last, have enough fuel etc. Due to the current regulations and cost capping one team has set the standard and everyone is playing catch up to an ever changing goal post.

The races themselves are boring due to the tyres being shite, Pirelli have always been bad. It’s a pity that there isn’t competition with the tyre suppliers.

As for this season, I may place a bet on Verstappen leading over 1500 laps, he’s bound to do it.😴

 It’s a pity that there isn’t competition with the tyre suppliers.

That would make things worse.

I started following F1 when Mansell and Piquet were teammates at Williams. McLaren-Honda were the first modern superteam, the Honda turbo engine was unbeatable. Then the Renault V10 was unbeatable and Williams dominated. I’m pretty sure that Senna would have won a string of titles from 1994 onwards if he hadn’t been killed. Then we had the Ferrari domination, with only McLaren being much of a challenge for years. Then, once Red Bull mastered the blown diffuser, it was Red Bull for years, then Mercedes for years. Yes, there were some closely fought championships over the decades, but most of them just saw one team running away with it. Tyre wars just made it worse – the Bridgestone tyres that were developed specifically around the Ferrari were a major part of the Schumacher domination, as I recall.

Formula 1 has always had periods of one team dominating a season or two, even back in the 70’s.

For sure, but (70s/80s/90s) no one driver won more than two years on the trot. Now it’s common for 4+ in succession. (Currently have a belter of a migraine so may have added some stuff up wrong there)

Edit, I think you have to go back to Fangio from Schumacher in 2000 to find more than two drivers championships in succession?

With that logic, from a driver’s perspective at least, it must have some sort of draw other than just the cache of being the pinnacle genre

As dull as it is for us to watch, I suspect the skills of keeping these fantastic machines on the road while going around 130R type corners at 150mph, tailing another driver at such high speeds within inches and the related instincts, physical effort and mental processing required is a huge adrenaline rush inside the cockpit.

Is it just me is Formula One the most overrated, boring, expensive, non-Green (whatever that means) sport on the planet?

Planet-destroying yawn fest, that, like elite football, exists because very, very rich people and corporations have money to burn and can’t think of anything better to do with it / as an ‘entertainment for the sofa-bound masses who’d otherwise drown in their own mental and physical inertia.

You’d think maybe there was a better way of spaffing billions a year up the wall. It would maybe be marginally less appalling if every single race didn’t consist of Max Charisma driving off from the start and continuing, unchallenged, to the end. Still, it helps sell SUVs – it does? – and god knows, teh planet needs more of them…

Tyre wars just made it worse – the Bridgestone tyres that were developed specifically around the Ferrari were a major part of the Schumacher domination, as I recall.

But on the flipside, when you have one supplier who’s soft tyre won’t last a lap, and the drivers can’t push too hard, it isn’t good considering F1 is meant to be the pinnacle of motorsport.

the sofa-bound masses who’d otherwise drown in their own mental and physical inertia

Ooh my hero 😍

As it is, it’s a tyre changing and tactics competition.

Entirely this. Would be far more entertaining to turn up at Kwik-Fit with a crate of beer and promise it to the team which finishes first. Points deducted if wheels fall off in the car park.

My youngest is 18 a few days before the British GP this year, and i have just today booked 2 day weekend tickets for him, his elder brother (21) and me.  My better half will stay home with the dog, her choice 🙂

Youngest is a huge fan, and we are hoping to keep it a surprise till then.  I am not a great follower, but we all always enjoy it on tv when we catch it. None of us have ever been to a race before so not really sure what to expect.

We have 2 day weekend ‘Hanger Enclosure’ tickets for the Sat and Sunday, which include parking and fast track access.  We are coming from Central Scotland and have booked 3 nights in an Air bnb cottage in East Haddon, which looks decent, has parking and is supposedly a 35 min drive to Silverstone.

Looks like a 5 and a bit hr drive from home, including a 25 min EV charging stop, to get there, so heading down Fri am to arrive at accomodation mid afternoon, home Monday after breakfast.

All tips and advice welcome please !

Pirelli have always been bad.

Pirelli have always maintained (and I guess there’s no real reason to doubt it) that if F1 asked them, they could build a tyre that would last an entire race. They otherwise build to F1 spec. See a couple of years back in Baku the Red Bull and Aston’s tyres letting go as they wanted to run them at lower pressure than’s recommended

https://racingnews365.com/did-red-bull-and-aston-martin-exceed-pirellis-limits-in-azerbaijan

[iainc]

iainc

Full Member

My youngest is 18 a few days before the British GP this year, and i have just today booked 2 day weekend tickets for him, his elder brother (21) and me.  My better half will stay home with the dog, her choice 🙂

Youngest is a huge fan, and we are hoping to keep it a surprise till then.  I am not a great follower, but we all always enjoy it on tv when we catch it. None of us have ever been to a race before so not really sure what to expect.

We have 2 day weekend ‘Hanger Enclosure’ tickets for the Sat and Sunday,

Lucky lad, this will be brilliant!

I’m not sure what your view will be from those seats but I really hope you can see maggots/becketts/chapel from them because it is absolutely mind bending how quickly an F1 car will go through there. Maybe take a walk during the race as well.

All tips and advice welcome please !

Set off early from the Air BNB!! Silverstone is huge so bring comfortable shoes.

I’m not sure if they still hire out radios/screens trackside, so if you want to actually follow the race, it’s worth checking if that’s available and if not – take one so you can get audio. Makes it a lot easier!

^^^ useful info, thanks, as far as I can work out the Hanger Enclosure has grandstand seats and a tented covered area for food and drink with big screens etc.  It’s inner track located and apparently a new section for this year.

Set off early from the Air BNB

yes, planning to maximise our time on site – it’s very expensive so need to get the most out of it.

“ None of us have ever been to a race before so not really sure what to expect.”

There’s lots to do outside of the racing. When I was last at Silverstone, you were able to do simulated pit stops, have a go at some of the reflex and fitness stuff etc.
I actually passed the grip strength test, that was about it tho!
No charge either.

Yes, Pirelli were asked to build tyres that would degrade and give a tyre offset. This idea is that this encourages teams to try different strategies and then you’ll have cars on track with tyres at different stages of wear, hence lots of overtaking.

However, the tyres degrade in two different ways. One wear, the other is thermal. The Pirellis suffer badly from thermal degradation, so at fast circuits like Suzuka and Silverstone, the drivers have to manage them over a single qualifying lap. In races, it’s usually obvious to everyone what the optimum strategy is so everyone starts on the same tyre compound, then the drivers cruise around at a pace low enough to make the pit stop window. Once they reach that, they either try for an undercut or overcut, depending on the circuit. The cars and drivers that are easier on their tyres have an advantage because they have more flexibility with strategy.

I don’t know whether it’s possible to make tyres that won’t suffer the thermal degradation but still suffer the wear degradation that the drivers want. The cars have quite a lot more downforce than back in the Bridgestone and Michellin days and the engines are quite a lot more powerful. With peak electrical deployment, they are delivering about 1,000 hp, so the outside rear tyre will be under massive stress through the apex and exit of fast corners. That doesn’t mean that Michelin or Bridgestone can’t do a better job than Pirelli, but the idea that making tyres that can be driven flat out from start to finish can be achieved with the snap of your fingers is just wishful thinking. With cars with that much power and downforce, tyre management will always be a critical part of a driver’s job.

@iainc

Nothing to add beyond I went to the British GP with my Dad around the time I was 18, it’s one of the best and most positive life memories I have with him. Hope it’s an excellent one for you both.

Isn’t that partially why they’re getting rid of tyre warmers?  Less thermal degradation because they’ll have a wider operating window.

The other option would be to hobble them aerodynamically. Single element wings and a min 50mm radius on the bodywork (thus eliminating all the channels and winglets). It’d increase the speed difference between corners and the long straights which should promote overtaking, and reduce loads on the tyres so they should need less managing.

With cars with that much power and downforce, tyre management will always be a critical part of a driver’s job.

I agree, but it’s a crap spectacle. Who wants to see them going round at 90% effort.

Give them a rulebook that forces a car that’s easy on the tyres, and set race lengths that encourage flat out racing.

The other option would be to hobble them aerodynamically.

Again, voices off stage saying “It’s boring and you need to do this or that to make it more exciting”, is not really a valid excuse to **** about with it IMO. You either like F1 and accept that not every race is going to be the drama-fest that everyone seems to think that every race should somehow be, or accept you don’t get a kick out of watching it, and you go and mow the lawn or stare into the middle distance, or whatever else you think is going to be more interesting.

piemonsterFull Member

@iainc

Nothing to add beyond I went to the British GP with my Dad around the time I was 18, it’s one of the best and most positive life memories I have with him. Hope it’s an excellent one for you both.

now that’s what i want to hear !  Thank you 🙂

@iainc

I’ve been twice…it’s fantastic.  As someone else said, have a wander around….if you can get to watch the cars cornering from ground level on the fast corners (particularly Copse I think), it is incredible

@iainc

You will absolutely love it, its Brilliant. Not been for a few years and its not something I’d want to (or can afford to!) do every year but its a superb weekend.

– Study the maps, traffic plans etc beforehand. Dont try and ‘beat’ the system with shortcuts etc, its not their first rodeo and you wont win, an the organsisers want everyone in and out ASAP. Get up early, go with their flow. It works.

– Check your tickets but generally Saturdays are ‘roaming’ and you can sit in multiple places. Explore, walk round, soak it in.  Stay late both nights, lots to keep you entertained after the F1.

– Take a schedule/running order/buy a program.

– FM RADIO!  Number one top tip. Your phone wont work as the signal/service is struggling with 150000 people in the circuit. Buy/borrow a little portable FM radio and keep one earphone in, you’ll get the best commentary, updates, news etc all day. Honestly – do this.

– ETA – joint top tip with the radio. Mentioned above for good reason. Get low. On Saturday during a practice or something, make sure you get right dowq low near the barriers on the outside of Maggots/Beckets, or outside Copse etc and watch for half an hour. Its is absolutely mesmerizing and breathtaking how fast the cars look and change direction from this angle.

great tips, appreciated

– FM RADIO!

This +1
They sell little single ear piece ones there that hang on a lanyard and can be quickly popped in and switched on. Pre-set and locked to the Silverstone Radio frequency. So, a bit of a one-trick pony but definitely worth it rather than faffing on with earphone cables in to a phone and then trying to get the radio app to work because you’ve never used it before and failing miserably (ask me how I know this!). I think I paid £12 for one in 2021 so probably about £15 by now. However, they’re all over ebay and the likes for less.

Planet-destroying yawn fest, that, like elite football, exists because very, very rich people and corporations have money to burn and can’t think of anything better to do with it / as an ‘entertainment for the sofa-bound masses who’d otherwise drown in their own mental and physical inertia.

Says a man typing at a computer screen arguing with anonymous people over the internet.

You’d think maybe there was a better way of spaffing billions a year up the wall. It would maybe be marginally less appalling if every single race didn’t consist of Max Charisma driving off from the start and continuing, unchallenged, to the end.

Another person spouting an opinion who presumably doesn’t pay much attention to it – of the season so far I think Max has only actually been in the lead for (I think) 156/217 of the laps so far and has only recorded the fastest lap in two of the four races so far…  ok he’s still the firm favorite in every race but he’s a moment of sloppiness by him or the engineers away from not being on top of the podium.

Still, it helps sell SUVs – it does? – and god knows, teh planet needs more of them…

Does it help sell SUV’s?  I’m not sure there’s much overlap between F1 teams/sponsors and SUV makers?  There’s far more links to energy drinks suppliers and banks…

Has anyone mentioned that F1 is nowhere near the most polluting sport either! 😉

Check your tickets but generally Saturdays are ‘roaming’ and you can sit in multiple places

It used to be that if you had a stand ticket for Sunday, you could go in any other stand on Friday and Saturday…..but my BiL went last year, and that was no longer the case.   Which is a bit mean, I think, if you’ve paid £££ for a 3 day ticket.

It’s funny that this thread started out as an ignorant and pointless dig at one sport and has become an interesting discussion about how to improve the show (or not as the case may be).  Apart from a few diehards, the “I never watch it, it’s boring” crowd have gone.   Should just go back to the main F1 thread now 😂

I went to watch the Saudi gp the other year (happened to be in town) and whilst the spectacle was good, you couldn’t really see any racing – just cars wizzing past separately at high speed. It might be silverstone is better set up for viewing

Sitting in grandstands watching motorsport is a massive turn-off for me. If I can’t get up against the fence it’s just not the same feeling.

Nothing beats watching racing cars rip past 100m away through a chainlink fence, right? 🙂

Silverstone’s normally pretty good with supplying big screens – if you have that and a radio to track the commentary, so much the better. 🙂

Cable headphones and an Android phone work fine for me. 🙂 It doesn’t list a “radio” app but it’s there if I search for it, easy to then add to home. Lock to 87.7 and you’ve saved yourself a burger’s worth of cash. 🙂 (Headphones where the jack turns 90 degrees may be best for grandstand users, to avoid the risk of a dislodged phone pulling a straight jack straight out before dropping through a gap in the stands 1mm wider than the phone and plummeting 30 feet to the hardcore beneath the Village grandstand. Ask me how I know 🙁 ).

Also – less of an issue for covered grandstands but it’s an airfield, default settings are red hot/freezing cold with nothing in between. 🙂 Probably too busy at a GP but bikes are otherwise a great way to get round, and the many toilet blocks have water points, which is nice. 🙂

To answer the question; Yes, it is, and has been for quite a while. I often think F1 is for people who don’t really like motorsport……They don’t have to go looking for it, it’s easily accessible…..all over the media, etc

It has the biggest media profile, biggest budgets, etc And all for the least entertaining motorsport.

If you really like motorsport, then you’ll be watching other series, whether 2 wheels or 4.

IMSA Weathertech Series, WEC, NLS/VLN, MXGP, Hard Enduro, Super GT, Supercross, etc

Sadly, MotoGP has now been bought by Liberty, so I expect that to become a dreary mess.

To answer the question; Yes, it is, and has been for quite a while. I often think F1 is for people who don’t really like motorsport

Well, it’s a theory.  Utter bollox, but it is a theory.

I often think F1 is for people who don’t really like motorsport…

“Sadly, MotoGP has now been bought by Liberty, so I expect that to become a dreary mess.”

It largely already is.