EU Referendum – are you in or out?

I have indeed given people too much credit to make their own informed decisions.

God you love to patronise us its almost as much as you like to tell us you are not right wing.
Cannot wait to see how you address us now you hold us and our abilities in less regard 😯

Are we really worthy of your efforts to help us ?

So if they pursue this fundamentalist, ultra-neoliberal path of massive deregulation, NHS privatisation, and making the economy ‘more competitive’ (read: shredding workers rights, and turning the country into a tax haven), which looks increasingly likely given the people involved

One of the little if ever pointed out possibilities in that scenario is that if the UK sets up as a low tax, no worker rights and poor environmental protection island to compete against EU businesses, is that the EU do not have to accept that trade under wto rules, they can if they want raise tariffs beyond the wto guidelines, on individual products and services or en mass, if they feel UK policy is damaging their industry and services.

As I said a couple of pages back, if all those who voted Leave surrendered their tax free personal allowance for a year, The Treasury would be able to cover the touted £36bn plus a few ad hoc expenses.

Maybe that’s the way forward?

Careful MSP! You’re drifting into ‘Enemy of the People’ territory there

We’ve ‘Taken Back Control’ you fool!. So what happens now is we issue our demands and Jonny Foreigner is just going to have to bally well live with it!

Once tariffs hit inflation and real wages it would be funny to see how stealy the politician’s resolve would be!!

The tories will prevail though as we now have a real live enemy to blame for everything.
Plus none of the tories wanted to leave they were merely obeying the will of the people.

please some evidence of this?

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/eu-referendum-are-you-in-or-out

🙂

Fill yer boots

The EU is constantly referred to in the context of one single unified political body, versus the UK. Surprised you haven’t noticed.
Perhaps I’m more aware of the differences and individuality of the member states having family from several different ones.

ETA: As one example, people routinely referring to us trading with the EU.
We don’t.

Big business is being currently ignored due to the government not being able to go against the will of the people, the CBI and a whole range of Banks and Manufacturing are looking at this and wondering just what the hell to do. People who voted leave in many cases simply do not understand the global business food chain and wholly expect 10 years down the line that Nissan etc will still be here? Automation and technology shift (electric cars etc) will completely remove employment for low skilled and poorly educated people- Brexit will compound this. We are not in a brave new world of opportunity (this is not the industrial revolution 2.0) we are in a world of diminishing opportunity with a workforce of poorly skilled people who literally have no future. I work in many businesses each week public and private sector they are all investing or looking at how to automate their business- anyone in the technology space will do well over the next 25 years if you drive a van your ******

It’s the biggest Irony of the lot, isn’t it? That the people who are about to be steam-rollered by the fallout from Brexit are the very people who voted for it? As a kick against globalisation. An anti-establishment vote, to try all roll it all back, and take us back to some mythical 1950s heydey of Grand Brittania.

In reality, it’s just going to massively accelerate the decline, as companies look to build their hi-tec plant in countries that aren’t so delusional and insular, and constantly gazing back to some mythical golden age

Baaa, Baaa 😉

Britain needs to get back into slave trading and drug running. Those imperial dreams won’t build themselves now, get that opium sold.

If only this had been around b4 the ref

must admit it is frustrating seeing MPs get a round of applause on QT or go unchallenged on TV interviews when you know they are bullshitting

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/aug/08/fake-news-full-fact-software-immune-system-journalism-soros-omidyar

As a kick against globalisation. An anti-establishment vote, to try all roll it all back, and take us back to some mythical 1950s heydey of Grand Brittanica

Is that momentum or Brexshit binners?

Bexiteers and Momentumeers one and the same….

Never mind most folks on this forum will prosper or at worst tread water (and pedals) into the sun drenched 2050s…

It’s a sad irony that Jezzas far left are facilitating the most right wing lunacy ever carried out, by their misguided 70’s view that the EU is an evil capitalist conspiracy.

I think they may be in for a bit of a rude awakening as to the true meaning of an evil capitalist conspiracy

The realisation will come far far too late obviously.

It’s madness that the Labour Party has chosen this subject as the one where they ignore the unions, in the same way as the Tory’s have decided this is when they choose to ignore the (more moderate) voice of business

The whole thing is insanity. But it’s equal insanity from both sides

What makes you think the left see the EU as an evil capitalist conspiracy? A conspiracy is a secret plot, the EU is overtly capitalist, it’s a capitalist organisation in it’s essence. The left by nature are anti capitalist, so in what way is that misguided. In what way is opposing something that is overtly against the ideologies you have misguided, just because you don’t agree with them?

Why is it misguided? Because the capitalist model the Tories have in mind post-Brexit will make the EU look like Venezuela (pre-recent entirely forgivable unpleasantness, obvs)

But then, I suppose if your political opinions haven’t shifted since 1973…..?

Is there a hint of exaggeration there Binns?

I did see some RFPs to build some private sector workhouses recently so perhaps you are correct….

Like I said earlier, if Jezza thinks that Brexit will herald in some 70’s style vision of re-nationalised industry and collectivism, then he’s the most deluded man in the country.

Faced with the choice of capitalism, German style, or the full on turbo-charged American model, as a socialist you’d opt for the Trump model, obviously

they key point there is if he thinks this

The brief hiatus of your joy post election seems to have morphed back to outraged of the North once more 😛

I dont support his position on Brexit but I dont think he thinks that leaving it heralds a new dawn of a socialist utopia either

the capitalist model the Tories have in mind post-Brexit will make the EU look like Venezuela

Its possible to both dislike the Eu and not support the Tory model.
I doubt they will be in power post Brexit anyone unless of course the Labour party decides to continue to self harm over Corbyn – do you?

Why do you keep going on about the 70s? Corbyn wants a social democracy, what’s so inherently 70s about that? He believes the EU is a barrier to social democracy due to it’s neo-liberal, free market outlook. It is against state intervention that interferes with competition.

Cranking up the hyperbole adds nothing to your argument.

Everything’s relative

Is the EU not a social democracy then?

Careful what you wish for

It is against state intervention that interferes with competition.

How very dare they?

The Euro has been a very effective weapon for increasing inequality, killing jobs and wages and destroying the lievihoods of many of EU’s young so you can see why old Jexzza might not be a fan

From Webster

social democracy: a political movement that uses principles of democracy to change a capitalist country to a socialist one

So no, EU is not a social democracy.

I’d say Germany is as close to the model of a social democracy as your ever going to get in our globalised economy.

And Hurty…. you cheeky wee scamp….. you’re the one who’s always telling us the EU and the Euro are not the same thing 😀

I know this because I’ve always agreed with you. The EU is a great idea. The Euro is abject stupidity that flies in the face of all the laws of economics

For balance

Social democracy is a political, social and economic ideology that supports economic and social interventions to promote social justice within the framework of a capitalist economy, as well as a policy regime involving a commitment to representative democracy, measures for income redistribution, and regulation of the economy in the general interest and welfare state provisions.[1][2][3] Social democracy thus aims to create the conditions for capitalism to lead to greater democratic, egalitarian and solidaristic outcomes; and is often associated with the set of socioeconomic policies that became prominent in Northern and Western Europe—particularly the Nordic model in the Nordic countries—during the latter half of the 20th century.

So yes, could easily be considered one – at least before the euro screwed all those nice objectives up of course.

True, Binns just adding a bit of colour 😉 and testing the water levels 😀

Apart from the measures for income redistribution bit. The EU only aims to redistribute income to the capitalist classes.

It may be semantics but Corbyn is more of a democratic socialist than a social democrat.

Part of the Treaty of Rome?

I think that Webster’s definition is a little American.

They also equate liberal and communist in parts of the US – don’t trust them with political definitions, or at least not ones that make sense in this country.

And Binners, THM and me all agreeing on the EU and Euro – I think we’ve found our En Marche! 😉

THMacron?

I’m not sure what political definitions make sense on this country if people seriously think the EU is a social democracy.

Can I be first lady?

Is there a a minister for pasties?

Think i might knock up a couple of sweat shops or maybe a Mill or Pit – its a Tory wet dream getting the poor back in the yoke.

More like 1850 than 1950

Binners
I
would say the low countries and Scandinavia are rather good examples of social democracies. A social democracy is a broad church from right of centre to left of centre

A good job we’ll be having nothing to do with those losers either then, eh?

Time to turbo-charge the anglo-Saxon model of capitalism instead, and Make Britain Great Again

It’s a sad irony that Jezzas far left are facilitating the most right wing lunacy ever carried out, by their misguided 70’s view that the EU is an evil capitalist conspiracy.

Maybe they just remember how the kind and fluffy EU reacted when the Greeks had the effrontery to elect a left government and on top of that had the damned cheek to suggest that the Euro club was not being run for the benefit of all its members!!

the laws of economics

Economics has laws? Who knew?