EU Referendum – are you in or out?

The best Brexit possible – and it is entirely possible – is no Brexit at all.

“Have” to do? So you say… but others disagree. We’ve had our “we want something other than EU membership” vote… next comes the… “do you want this specific actual alternative to EU membership” vote. No idea what form that’ll take, but if it doesn’t happen then the post exit years will be politically very damaging indeed.

Fingers crossed DD

They may well be, that’s true. But that is what we have to deal with.

We “want” a bespoke deal not one of the existing alternatives for ensuring continued access – that makes it harder still. Even more important not to cloud the whole debate with remooaner or Brexshiteer BS. Stick to the facts. They are all there…

Remember even the doomsday scenarios were not that bad – hence the need for Osbourne and others ^ to deliberately misquote and exaggerate them.. Remember when some were arguing that the cumulative effect over many years was actually the effect over one. You can make it up! Consistently…

Anyway a bientot, weather’s lovely but might not last

“Bespoke deal” … more empty words. No more meaningful than “Brexit means Brexit.”

Any deal will be a bespoke deal, as it will be between the UK and the EU… a one off… nothing prexisting to use here.

There is no deal possible unless May and her cronies forget their “red lines” which they seem to be doing on the quiet. Nothing we can get will be anywhere near as good a deal as we have now and nothing will undo the damage that it is doing to the country.

^ + 1 tj

Alice is a remainer, the queen is a leaver.

“Alice laughed: “There’s no use trying,” she said; “one can’t believe impossible things.”
“I daresay you haven’t had much practice,” said the Queen. “When I was younger, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I’ve believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.”

“You couldn’t have it if you did want it,” the Queen said. “The rule is jam tomorrow and jam yesterday but never jam to-day.”
“It must come sometimes to “jam to-day,””Alice objected.
“No it can’t,” said the Queen. “It’s jam every other day; to-day isn’t any other day, you know.”
“I don’t understand you,” said Alice. “It’s dreadfully confusing.”

The painful truth is that the vast majority of British households will be better off out of the European Union with a Labour government led by Jeremy Corbyn than in the European Union under the yoke of a Conservative government led by anyone.

Blimey. Its as fanciful as the hard brexiters dreams.

Whenever THM posts about “accepting the decision” or “getting on with it”, All I see is weakness.

How anyone would willing accept the misery that this has caused our fellow Europeans is beyond me.

I think many of us Europeans who can remember the difficulties caused byt volatile exchange rates and vulnerable currencies are more than happy to have Euros in our pockets rather than Francs or whatever.

The main losers are currency traders – do you do any of that, THM?

“Bespoke deal”

It’s bound to be isn’t it? Considering no-one has done such a stupid thing before.

The painful truth is that the vast majority of British households will be better off out of the European Union with a Labour government led by Jeremy Corbyn than in the European Union under the yoke of a Conservative government

Possibly. But we have not been offered that binary choice, as far as I’m aware.

Well we were offered the choice albeit in two stages, the referendum and the General Election. As the article says the referendum result led to the events of the general election and we wouldn’t have had one if it wasn’t for the result in the referendum.

Sometimes if you want something to happen you need to stick your neck out or just accept the status quo.

I’ll take a Conservative government, in the EU, over what Corbyn can do outside the EU, any day. And I voted Labour. Their manifesto costings pretended the loss of government revenue due to Brexit was peanuts. Deluded or deceitful… you choose.

That piece smacks of the “smash the system to bring on the new red dawn” side of left wing politics that should stay on the pages of the Socialist Worker.

Nail, head, hammer there Kelvin!

Really? To quote someone else in a previous post, with comrades like you….

I thought it was quite measured. I guess you wouldn’t like this one from before the referendum then.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/enrico-tortolano/eu-and-other-neoliberal-nightmares

I’m not sure if Prof Weeks hasn’t noticed, but we still have a Tory government

Labour menifesto was all carefully costed and its yearly cost was less than the bung to the DUP in total.

For all the abuse that Jambas gets and yet we have more posts like this

Labour menifesto was all carefully costed

Is there not a point at which posting things that are patently untrue becomes embarrassing? not even a tad? Do you and others actually believe this stuff, do you not bother to check if its true or do you simply not care if it’s untrue. Is it the Jefferey Archer syndrome? Now wonder the SNP get away with their shenanigans……

Kelvin both the comments you objected to earlier are true. We are seeking a bespoke deal rather than choosing to adopt any of the four pre-existing ways of engaging with the EU. And yes, whether we like it or not, Brexisit does mean Brexshit. It’s just the form that is uncertain along with the timetable.

Time to get with the game.

Likewise, the form of a “bespoke deal” is as nebulous as you like… no deal, remain, bespoke deal… the only three options… all possible deals on leaving are “bespoke deals”. All the other countries with EEA involvement have their own deals, as do all countries with strong customs and trade arrangements. All bespoke deals. The thing is … “bespoke deal” just means “a deal” … it says nothing of the form, content, or compromises involved.

bespoke deal
Brexit means Brexit
red white and blue Brexit
…

I should probably add… we have a bespoke deal now.

But, we have not sought the EEA option – a least not from the outset. We have rejected the off-the-shelf options, hence the antonym is……..a [_______] one

So,if we do not adopt an exitsting off the shelf deal, what type of deal will we have?

X post – we do, a bloody good one, and one that wont be bettered

Shame that a majority of folk didn’t vote to keep it, isn’t it?

what type of deal will we have?

An expensive one

Probably lies as it’s in the torygraph

But enjoyable that it will have have plenty of brexies frothing over their kippers tomorrow morning

over their kippers

Bravo 😉

Pun-tastic there Kimbers – like it.

what type of deal will we have?

Any deal we get will be a bespoke deal… a bespoke deal is a bespoke deal… repeating the term ad nauseum doesn’t give it more morning.

Morning, meaning… whatever.

morning means breakfast!

£36Bn? It’s David Cameron’s bequest to the nation.

morning means breakfast!

> small round of applause <

£36Bn?

The current PM has been VERY careful not to draw any redlines, or back herself into any corners, when it comes to an exit bill, or continuing payments to the EU. Unlike some ministers who stood in front of the red bus. Her most pragmatic move.

so we offer as a starting point 36 billion. What will our actual payment be? Its clear the EU negotiators are getting totally fed up with the lack of progress. NO deal gets more likely day by day and how couldany responsible ( Ha! ) politician think this acceptable.

Second referendum please

The EU, as always are pretending to negotiate but putting your in a neck lock first instead – read Varoufakis for how this is done in detail.

We know the opening gambits and we know where the deal is likely to be struck. No need to get hung up on the noise. The final number is simple being flagged to test public opinion. Predicted 30-40 on here ages ago.

The more important question is what is committed by both sides once this hurdle is crossed, It’s a negotiation after all…

But even the 36Bn is only offered as part of a trade deal, which only provokes the obvious question (on the side of the EU negotiators)…what will the UK pay for brexit without any trade deal?

However 2nd ref (at this point) is a bonkers idea. Once we have a specific deal a yes/no vote on that would be reasonable. What we will actually get is months of acrimonious politicking and no real progress, followed with a governmental implosion and shame-faced retraction of A50, but only after huge damage has been done.

Except there’s a clock ticking on A50; to have a second referendum before that expires the government would need to do something fairly soon.

from other thread

sorry THM its was 2025 not 2050 b4 we break even from Brexit 😳

but that study also predicted that growth wouldnt slow & real wages wouldnt start falling until after brexit, which is making it seem overly optimistic already

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-economy-damage-hit-2020-general-election-cambridge-study-a7511596.html

*Surprised no-one has commented on Tusk’s comments the other day. Strong words.
ExitPol?

* 😆

sbob – Member
*Surprised no-one has commented on Tusk’s comments the other day. Strong words.
ExitPol?

*

is this another thing where you brexies predict that austria holland france poland are about to leave the EU and make it collapse ?

😆

still Plexit? wouyld please all the little Englanders as then all those pesky Poles would have to leave the UK, regardless?

Also see that EU looks like its witholding 4bn of pre-accession funding from Turkey

The piece above about the eu considering kicking poland out is the start of thr maneuvering/softening people up to cover the future loss of membership fees from the uk IMO.