I think it’s finally dawned on even the ERG headbangers that Ireland is part of a large trading block with a lot of clout, that puts it in a much stronger negotiating position that the UK

Say what? I thought they needed us more than we needed them. I just don’t believe it.

It’s all getting a bit Freudian, isn’t it PP?

It’s all getting a bit Freudian, isn’t it PP?

My mum seems to thinks so….

😂😂😂

The snag will be that after the letter has been sent to request an extension (satisfying law) a subsequent letter will be sent by Johnson saying he doesn’t want an extension

From the Benn Act – read it that hes legally bound to request and accept an extension. (IANAL)
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/26/enacted/data.htm

edit (my bold)

Duties in connection with Article 50 extension

(1)If the European Council decides to agree an extension of the period in Article 50(3) of the Treaty on European Union ending at 11.00 pm on 31 October 2019 to the period ending at 11.00pm on 31 January 2020, the Prime Minister must, immediately after such a decision is made, notify the President of the European Council that the United Kingdom agrees to the proposed extension.

(2)If the European Council decides to agree an extension of the period in Article 50(3) of the Treaty on European Union ending at 11.00pm on 31 October 2019, but to a date other than 11.00pm on 31 January 2020, the Prime Minister must, within a period of two days beginning with the end of the day on which the European Council’s decision is made, or before the end of 30 October 2019, whichever is sooner, notify the President of the European Council that the United Kingdom agrees to the proposed extension.

Six o’clock presumably.

Dunno, I saw something on a Wish ad that could hold 12 o’clock.

Looks like the DUP have finally put their few brain cells together and realised that Johnsons plan involves a border int eh Irish sea so will vote against – and thats all the excuse the ERG need to vote against.

Ironical isn’t it that this bunch of far right nutjobs might stop brexit completely!

DUP Brexit spokesman Sammy Wilson, when asked about Commons Leader Jacob Rees-Mogg saying is willing to “eat his own words” and back a customs plan he once branded “completely cretinous”, responded: “Whatever appetite he has for his own words or whatever, we will not be eating our own words. Our position is clear, the government knows what our position is and we will not be dining from a different menu.”

Donald Tusk, April 11: "Please do not waste this time."

The UK, October 14: pic.twitter.com/0R4sD41Roh

— Alex Andreou (@sturdyAlex) October 14, 2019

Ooh. Nearly. 😂 pic.twitter.com/rqr91puBFb

— Alex Andreou (@sturdyAlex) October 14, 2019

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/buckingham-palace-on-boris-johnson-and-queen-s-speech-1-6321772

Parliament has the ability to reject the Queen’s Speech.

Surprised this isn’t being talked about more. With a majority in the minus 40s, Boris can’t be totally confident that his QS won’t get voted down.

Is it convention that the QS is not opposed?

Is it convention that the QS is not opposed?

I think it is more that to be in the position to give a QC you normally have a majority either by yourself or in coalition.
Be curious to see what happens but since, beyond increasing Johnsons lead in consecutive losses, its not overly significant not really much importance to it.

Is it convention that the QS is not opposed?

Just vote it down.

I like entertainment me.

Be curious to see what happens but since, beyond increasing Johnsons lead in consecutive losses, its not overly significant not really much importance to it.

I thought it would be the equivalent of a VONC if a sitting govt’s legislative plan is defeated in this way?

I thought it would be the equivalent of a VONC

My understanding is it is but isnt.
In the past it would have been a very strong hint to give up and try again but now with fixed term parliaments it isnt. Basically an scenario we havent been in before for several reasons and so very difficult to figure out.

Is it convention that the QS is not opposed?

That has not been my experience.

“How Brexit marks the end of the British story”

Long but very interesting read. Got to it from Cougars link above.

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/ac-grayling-on-brexit-1-6322238

this popped up n the grauniad live feed posted for the non grauniad online readers

You might be interested to know that there would be a practical consequence for the government of losing the motion on the address completely (as opposed to losing on an amendment to it).

Standing order 51 says that the government can’t move a ways and means resolution without notice unless the address has been agreed to. What this means is that if the government fails to get the address through the house, it can’t bring in emergency tax changes, e.g. to beat avoidance schemes, without letting the world know first, which might be very inconvenient in current circumstances.

Perhaps more important, that standing order could be amended by the house to say that the government can’t bring in a budget at all until the address has been passed, something it might do if Boris Johnson loses a vote on the Queen’s speech and then refuses to follow the convention that prime ministers defeated on the Queen’s speech should resign.

Looks like the DUP have finally put their few brain cells together and realised that Johnsons plan involves a border int eh Irish sea so will vote against – and thats all the excuse the ERG need to vote against.

Ironical isn’t it that this bunch of far right nutjobs might stop brexit completely!

Ah but he doesn’t need them, it’s tight but he could just scrape the votes up to get his deal passed.

Borises main objective now is to hold the Tory party together brexits a secondary issue.

Those thrown out Tories will more than likely vote for the Tories and there were 18 or 19 Labour voting against the whip.

The erg will fall in line as it’s gonna be no Brexit otherwise as a referendum prior to election will sink their dreams and some of them have cushy jobs now.

A small technical delay to finish the details probably wouldn’t hurt Boris as he has gasp secured a deal and Brexit is ‘Done’ even this delay may be averted thou if they fiddle it.

The irony is that Mays deal will finally limp thru but Boris will win the kudos points 🙂

even at that its scraping it – and if those labour mps actually vote for brexit they should be hung drawn and quartered. Utter idiots. Kinnock junior is their leader FFS!

Is it convention that the QS is not opposed?

That has not been my experience.

I know what you mean. But if I agree with you, it means you’re wrong.

Borises main objective now is to hold the Tory party together brexits a secondary issue.

Is it?

Surely Boris’s main objective is Boris. Brexit is tertiary at best.

Not only,
https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/buckingham-palace-on-boris-johnson-and-queen-s-speech-1-6321772 as above
but also…

See Private Eye 1506 Court Circular

https://www.private-eye.co.uk/news (this won’t work for long, if it even works at all)

“Private audiences between Brenda and Johnson may become not so private, with suggestions they should be recorded in some form and stored in the archives just in case. And it is possible that a very reluctant Brenda might be talked into using her untested reserve powers to act in a crisis by dissolving parliament or sacking the prime minister.”

On second thoughts, worth quoting in full before it disappears…

news

A gov supreme

Court Circular , Issue 1506

BRENDA, Baroness Hale of Richmond, was rendering another Brenda ( for those not in know – Brenda = ER in PE speak, Brian = Charles) a constitutional footnote, the monarch was busy elsewhere. So convinced was the Queen that her commands are inviolable that she didn’t even bother to tune in to the supreme court judgement. Her senior officials, gathered around the television, were not so convinced.

“Trust the prime minister,” a Number 10 bigwig had assured the Queen’s private secretary, Edward Young. That was enough to send him rushing for the regal legal eagles. So they had been warned that the government had made such a hash of presenting its case, and thus defending the monarch, that anything was now possible.

Power shift

When Number One Brenda was finally informed of the other Brenda’s judgement at the daily 11am briefing, residents of Royal Deeside might have heard a small explosion. At worst courtiers thought Johnson would be found guilty of fibbing to Her Majesty, who would then be required to sign some document reinstating parliament or, possibly, head to London for an emergency state opening.

But having to tell Brenda R that Brenda H had ruled that her proroguing of parliament was “unlawful, null and of no effect” and that power to recall lay with John Bercow was not much easier. Let alone that Hale also said the documents signed by the monarch “in her own hand” were as meaningless as “a blank piece of paper”. According to the judgement, neither prorogation nor royal assent are a “proceeding in parliament”, which effectively discounts the principle that the monarch is integral to it.

Call of duty

Johnson’s phone call with Brenda later on Judgement Day was similarly perplexing. He had part-blustered, part-charmed Brenda into believing his vision of a prorogational paradise and presented her with legal opinions to back up his case. But lawyers can be found to argue black is white if someone is paying them to.

Brenda bowed to Johnson’s demands because she had no choice. But it is the job of prime ministers to protect a monarch who has no voice, and that is what Johnson failed to do. Worse, he didn’t even try very hard.

The palace had assumed that Johnson’s phone call, with officials listening in on both sides, would consist of an apology and a request that she return to London to accept his resignation. But no. Despite briefings to the contrary from Downing Street, Johnson merely told her he “deeply and sincerely” regretted the supreme court’s decision… and that was it.

New order

Things look set to change now that the Supremes have sung. The palace will not indulge Johnson so readily in future. A normal state opening of parliament this month has been made almost impossible: what if Lady Hale and her colleagues were to conclude that the Queen’s Speech, too, was written in invisible ink?

Private audiences between Brenda and Johnson may become not so private, with suggestions they should be recorded in some form and stored in the archives just in case. And it is possible that a very reluctant Brenda might be talked into using her untested reserve powers to act in a crisis by dissolving parliament or sacking the prime minister.

Brian may well welcome this rubbishing of the royal brand as justification to do things differently when his time eventually comes. That’s assuming that Brenda Hale, her heirs and successors, haven’t confiscated his crown.

Flunkey

Surely Boris’s main objective is Boris. Brexit is tertiary at best.

Yep definitely but I get bored borisplaning.

Good article there poopscoop, AC Grayling utterly skewers the British in that.

BBC reporting on this now:https://t.co/EunI2FO82B

— Nick🇬🇧🇪🇺🇺🇦 (@nicktolhurst) October 15, 2019

AC Grayling utterly skewers the British

I agreed with almost everything in that article, but it didn’t skewer the British population, just the Governments. I suppose you can say it’s the people’s fault for voting for them, but not all of us did.

It’s a rollercoaster of a week…

BREAKING: U.K. and EU negotiators in Brussels are closing in on a draft Brexit deal with optimism that there will be a breakthrough before the end of the day https://t.co/n5DKjWSsNb pic.twitter.com/RW56CSbujm

— Bloomberg Brexit (@Brexit) October 15, 2019

…perhaps best to ignore all this ‘till Saturday.

and then, what are the chances of Mays Deal v1.1 being voted through by MPs not under the control of PM Cummmings?

Rollercoaster…

BREAKING: Taoiseach says gap is "still quite wide," particularly on the issue of customs.

— Tony Connelly (@tconnellyRTE) October 15, 2019

and then, what are the chances of Mays Deal v1.1 being voted through by MPs not under the control of PM Cummmings?

Well… any new deal is likely to be the deal May agreed to before the DUP scuppered it… that is NI staying in both Single Market and Customs Union ‘till a trade deal is arrived at that (together with new tech and procedures) makes it unnecessary. This never got as far as parliament for MPs to vote on it. Instead what was cooked up and voted on to appease the DUP prevented the quick new deals with USA and, er, Belize that, to some, are the point of Brexit. That got voted down multiple times for being “not real Brexit” and tying us into EU common external trade policy for, well, possibly forever. So… ignoring that the DUP won’t buy it, can a majority in the commons be found for the original “real Brexit for England, Scotland & Wales … leave NI behind for now” if Johnson sugarcoats it and threatens mad stuff if they don’t take it?

[ I should probably make it clear that I think “Real Brexit” is a disaster for anyone not in a position to take advantage of new deals with dodgy regimes. And, as a group of nations, we can never use these new deals to come close to replacing the economic actively we stand to lose, or pay for the increased costs of trade that we will be faced with. ]

Greybeard, it starts right from the outset skewing the British

Whatever the outcome of the Brexit debacle – whether the UK leaves the EU or remains in it, or soon returns to it, or survives as ‘the UK’, or splits into two or three separate states – the debacle itself is already a mark of closure, an ending, to something that has been integral to one major stream of British self-identity.

This was the belief, lingering after the end of empire, in the superior nature of everything British: The character of the people, the institutions of the state, the contributions made to world science, thought and culture, and the globally dominant English language itself.

You can’t talk about a nations self identity without indirectly referring to it’s people.
It’s not politicians who create a nations self identity, it’s the people – politicians simply exploit it.

More succinct than my post:

#Brexit a summary

Special Status for NI (orig backstop) – ⛔️ May and DUP block

OK, so UK-EU CU instead – ⛔️ MPs say it keeps UK too close to EU

Double customs arrangement (floated last week) – ⛔️ EU thinks unworkable

So today… back to original backstop – surely ⛔️ too?

— Jon Worth (@jonworth) October 15, 2019

Brexit is still a stupid idea. Always was, is and always will be.

Back to the original backstop it is.
Boris has thrown the Dup under the bus and then reversed and crushed them a bit more.

The EU might agree to that, but how’s he gonna get that stinker through parliament?
DUP will vote against, SNP will, lib dems will, most of Labour will, some tories and tory rebel floaters will..

Or is it just a continuation of the toxic people V’s parliament narrative they are desperately pushing?

I thought someone on here said that this was illegal ?

Dunno who, but I guess due to the GFA, Irish people, probably particularly those in NI have the right to be Irish, British or both.

If NI is annexed, then surely that’s denying those who so choose, equal rights as British citizens?

Maybe it’s just more noise from Johnson /Cummings…

Laws need changing, yes @zippykona… but the same is true for any deal. Lots to do… we we’re unlikely to be leaving this month unless it’s a car crash no deal with rushed post exit legislation implemented by bypassing parliament.