EU Referendum – are you in or out?

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  • EU Referendum – are you in or out?
  • Premier Icon epicyclo
    Subscriber

    One benefit of Brexit is the opportunities it provides for cartoonists 🙂

    All it has to do is dissolve the Treaty of Union.

    That’s a unilateral action and one available to a govt with a majority of independence parties. (Which there is)

    Actually no, Von Rumpoy explicitly said any independence would have to be gained by a referendum legally granted by Westminster.

    Premier Icon Poopscoop
    Subscriber

    Just been on Twitter which I try to avoid like the plague to look at the RNLI getting abuse.

    I’m ******* sickened. I’ve now spent over an hour(politely) replying to some of the **** heads on there. An utter waste of time of course, it’s not even really about the RNLI.

    The morally corrupt, touting the Union flag and slamming the RNLI for saving lives from drowning simply because the last molecule that fills their lungs came from another ocean.

    Utter c****.

    I wonder if the excuse that they are the Royal NATIONAL Lifeboat Institute sticks when they consider the likes of the BRITISH Red Cross?

    That Mail article really is plumbing new depths.

    Premier Icon tomd
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    Holy crap that Daily mail article is gutter stuff even by their standards.

    Brexiteer 1: We want a more international outlook, focusing on high growth economies around the world and to reinvigorate commonwealth ties.

    Brexiteer 2: Discrace that their hard erned money is goin to abrod. Britain first eggnog said. Sham on you RNLI.

    Cripes, wait till they find out who operates lifeboats around the coast of Ireland.

    Premier Icon epicyclo
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    squirrelking

    …Von Rumpoy explicitly said any independence would have to be gained by a referendum legally granted by Westminster

    Who’s Von Rumpoy? 🙂

    It’s generally accepted that treaties between countries can be revoked, so I’d like more detail.

    Premier Icon fadda
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    Anyone hear Raab on R4 this morning, stating that it goes without saying that the government will comply with the law, whilst avoiding the very simple question as to whether they will comply with the legislation requiring an extension to avoid no deal.

    “the implications are unclear”, apparently…

    piemonster
    Member

    I’d like to pretend to be surprised by that DM article and the spite filled frothing of those disgusted by British money saving the wrong people’s lives.

    But I’m not. I wonder how much further we can sink as a society.

    Premier Icon binners
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    I wonder how much further we can sink as a society.

    Given that the last 3 years has seen the agenda constantly shifted further and further to the far-right, and that the kind of policies now being advocated by government ministers were, not too long ago, the exclusive preserve of the likes of Tommy Robinson and the BNP, I don’t hold out much hope of it getting any better

    Premier Icon Del
    Subscriber

    It’s generally accepted that treaties between countries can be revoked, so I’d like more detail.

    Perhaps on the Scottish independence thread?

    tjagain
    Member

    My view – the biggest obstacle now to stopping “no deal” is Swinson and the lib dems. By refusing to work with corbyn and now the new policy of revoke without a referendum she has driven a wedge between the anti no deal groups and makes no deal more likely

    She really is tory lite – there are now more ex tory mps in her party than liberals!

    All you folk saying you will vote lib dem not labour ( unless tactical anti tory) you lib dem vote will make brexit / no deal more likely and a tory government more likely.

    Premier Icon binners
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    A lot of people who voted remain are looking to the lib dems due to their complete exasperation at the hopeless, ineffective performance of the labour party and its continued non-commital, half rice/half chips fence-sitting.

    We know that isn’t your take on it, but you must appreciate that its an entirely valid and understandable point of view

    Premier Icon kelvin
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    The country doesn’t want Corbyn and doesn’t want Brexit. If Swinson is looking to try and win votes off the back of the intersection of those two truths… who can blame her.

    [ I’m voting Labour not LibDem when the inevitable general election comes – are you @TJagain ? ]

    Edukator
    Member

    By taking away a Tory majority by offering a new home to Tory-lite remainers Swinson has made no deal a lot less likely. Check out the voting in the votes Boris lost that have made no deal less likely, TJ. It’s the rise of the center that’s blocking Brexit not the lexiters or ERG.

    A Tory-lite, Labour-lite Liberal democratic party is fine by me. It’s Corbyn and Boris that want blue or red shades of Brexit that need ousting.

    Swinson would get my vote if I still had one.

    Premier Icon binners
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    She really is tory lite

    Falling back on archaic party descriptions that are no longer of any relevance is half the problem. traditional assumptions about party positions are just no longer applicable in this mad, Brexit-deranged country

    Given that the Tory party has now morphed almost completely into UKIP/Brexit party and is busy purging all its ‘one nation’ MPs, and that Labour under Corbyn is becoming the Socialist Workers Party, Tory-lite* as you scathingly describe it, looks like a pretty smart place to position yourself to me

    Did you miss the EU and local election results?

    *Tory-lite, Blairite, Centrist – whatever this week’s favoured term of abusive is being spat by both the left and the right

    Premier Icon Del
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    By refusing to work with corbyn

    Where is this stated? They worked together to pass the legislation to ( hopefully ) prevent a no deal exit, didn’t they?

    Premier Icon kelvin
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    They worked together to pass the legislation

    I think that was mostly John McDonnell & Nick Brown … although Corbyn played his role perfectly while all that was playing out … I presume TJ is talking about Swinson saying she doesn’t want to make Corbyn PM.

    tjagain
    Member

    She has stated it several times and by adopting the revoke without referendum position she has split the anti no deal side. simple as

    Voting lib dem now will make a tory government more likely and a no deal brexit more likely. If she was serious about stopping brexit and stopping a tory government then she would be working closely with labour. But she refuses to do so.

    Its clear what she is trying to do ( attract tory remainers) but her political naivety shows thru as her actions will have the opposite effect.

    vote lib dem get tory and no deal brexit – thats the reality

    tjagain
    Member

    As for my voting preferences – it really makes no difference from a brexit point of view as the likely winners in my coinstituency are all anti brexit. No pro brexit candidate has a chance

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    Are you voting Labour? Or just preaching down to others?

    Premier Icon dissonance
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    and that Labour under Corbyn is becoming the Socialist Workers Party,

    yes. yes of course.

    ‘Tory-lite’ as you describe, it looks like a pretty smart place to position yourself

    She is pretty right wing by any sensible standards. Its a reflection of triumph of the hardright that they have managed to portray what was extremist economical views as mainstream in less than 30 years.
    I would say at least she remains socially liberal but given her willingness to accept some former tories who are anything but got to question that as well.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    Okay, let’s say she an anti-Brexit liberal yellow Tory… just to make the tribalists happy. Lots of people will vote for that right now … hopefully loads in seats where Conservative Brexit Party MPs can be beaten.

    tjagain
    Member

    Not just not making him PM but completely refusing to work with him at all – as can be seen by her splitting the anti brexit side with the stupid policy of revoke without referendum and from multiple statements she ha s made each time getting more and more strident.

    Mark my words – she is after a ministerial car in a tory government. My bet is she will lose her seat tho – good riddence. I am so angry about her behaviour. She is now the biggest obstacle in stopping brexit

    Premier Icon kimbers
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    The anti-no deal legislation shows that Swinson is happy to work with Corbyn

    Labour still have not figured out that ambiguity over Brexit (& their position still unclear) Swinson is putting pressure on Corbyn to back remain & she has leverage to do it.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    Without the LibDems (and all the people voting for them and the Greens earlier this year)… Labour Brexit policy would still be stuck in 2017.

    tjagain
    Member

    She is not socially liberal – look at her voting record! she has consistently voted against liberal positions.

    Swinson has positioned herself where the tories were 20 years ago

    Premier Icon binners
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    vote lib dem get tory and no deal brexit – thats the reality

    That’s just far too simplistic.

    Depends where you are, surely?

    In my ultra-marginal northern constituency, I’d have to be mental to vote Lib Dem. I might as well just torch my voting slip! I have to vote labour.

    But more affluent, metropolitan, liberal-thinking southern seats are chock full of remain-minded voters who are clearly absolutely appalled by what the (Faragist) Tory party has become. I’d imagine the same applies in reverse. A vote for labour here would be a total waste of your vote.

    Add in the ‘true believers’ who will go to Farage, I reckon the Lib Dems will take a lot of seats off the Tories in southern remain constituencies

    If you look at the seats Boris is targetting, they’re all northern and midlands leave-voting ones, so he must think so too

    tjagain
    Member

    The anti-no deal legislation shows that Swinson is happy to work with Corbyn

    Nope – that was not between Corbyn and her and look what she has done since and look at her statemnts – getting ever more anti corbyn She has no idea that the only way to beat brexit is to have a united anti brexit opposition.

    tjagain
    Member

    Binners – I did say unless tactical anti tory

    Lib dems will lose seats not gain them. I bet after the next election they have less MPs than now – ans Swinson will be one of the ones lost

    History will judge her badly. She has the opportunity and power to block brexit but has thrown it away because she does not like corbyn

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    The country overwhelmingly does not like Corbyn, and wants Brexit stopped… especially in seats where Conservative MPs can be unseated. Her plan is sound. She’s not after your vote or mine TJ. The LibDems have to win over people who previously voted Conservative, in seats where hardly anyone voted Labour in recent elections. Just chasing 2017 Labour voters will not get her party many more seats (nor lose the Conservative party many of their seats).

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    Stopping Brexit requires either the opposition parties to change tack, and move to a referendum first, general election second, position… or for the LibDems to steal seats at a general election from the Conservatives, and Labour to do at least as well as in 2017 with their seat count. At the moment, none of that looks likely (sadly)… but all of this conference season political manoeuvring needs to be watched with this in mind.

    Premier Icon binners
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    Lib dems will lose seats not gain them.

    I’ll take that bet, Uncle Jezza. Usual pasty-related goodies? 😀

    tjagain
    Member

    I understand that – but by doing what she is doing she is making a tory government and a no deal brexit more likely.

    She was able to go into coalition with Cameron and Osbourne and instigate austerity that harmed so many for no reason but she will not even support Corbyn to stop no deal?

    Swinson dismissed the possibility of supporting Corbyn along the lines of the Democratic Unionist party’s confidence-and-supply arrangement with the Conservatives. “I don’t know how I can be clearer – I do not think he is fit to be prime minister. He is trying to take our country into Brexit. He has failed to tackle antisemitism in his own party.”

    BOth complete lies

    She refused point blank to state which labour policies she objects to – its all about personalities with her.

    tjagain
    Member

    Certainly Binners. I enjoyed my Gregs last time 🙂

    Premier Icon kelvin
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    …its all about personalities with her.

    Yes, and it’s a vote winner. In her target seats people do not like or trust Corbyn. These seats can not be won if she can be painted as being a proxy for a Corbyn led government.

    Premier Icon Cougar
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    We’re at a strange point in time now where we’ve been lambasting Corbyn for three years for sitting on the fence and now we’re giving Swinson a kicking for not doing so. It’s no wonder the headbangers haven’t been ousted yet.

    Premier Icon slowoldman
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    She really is tory lite

    Apart from the repeal A50 bit.

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