EU Referendum – are you in or out?

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  • EU Referendum – are you in or out?
  • mattyfez
    Member

    They may be pro EU, along with the greens and LD’s
    But by failing to join forces, for a unified position in the EU elections, they are basically guaranteeing the EDL/UKIP/brexit will gain more MEPS and they’ll only get a scatter of votes each.

    Same old crap. Same old ‘party before best interest’.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    Anyone heard how the Tories and Labour “joining forces” has progressed today? Talks were supposed to resume, but I’ve heard nothing.

    mefty
    Member

    Farage’s Brexit Party is strategically miles ahead of any of the remain groups, candidates a major break from his UKIP past.

    mattyfez
    Member

    Anyone heard how the Tories and Labour “joining forces” has progressed today? Talks were supposed to resume, but I’ve heard nothing.

    I read an article that was basically ground hog day.

    Tories saying Labour being difficult whilst not budging.. Same shit different day.

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    Credit where it’s due, UKIP always had the best colour branding. Vote purple.

    Black is a shit choice for Change but really, what else was left? The Austin Allegro’s Russet Brown?

    Premier Icon zippykona
    Subscriber

    Maybe Change should have just called themselves EUkip , stole the logo and hoovered up all the **** who can’t read.

    Premier Icon nickc
    Subscriber

    Farage’s Brexit Party is strategically miles ahead

    Given the criminal behaviour of Leave.EU last time around, lets hope it’s being carefully watched.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    To be fair to them, they know their target demographic

    tjagain
    Member

    They may be pro EU, along with the greens and LD’s
    But by failing to join forces, for a unified position in the EU elections, they are basically guaranteeing the EDL/UKIP/brexit will gain more MEPS and they’ll only get a scatter of votes each.

    This is not true unless they get below the representation threshold which I very much doubt. all that will happen is you get the same number of MPS pro and anti but they are split between different parties.

    Euro elections are PR. You get representation according to the number of votes. Its not FPTP take all

    Euro elections are PR. You get representation according to the number of votes.

    It’s not that simple in the D’Hondt system. If the minority party voting is split, and comes in under a certain percentage, they get nothing.

    EU elections offer real opportunity – if played well

    Premier Icon zippykona
    Subscriber

    I see Trump will be in town to sign the Trump Treaty. Mike Ashley has been secretly funded by the CIA to buy up all the businesses that are going bust so that they can be turned into gun shops. Have you seen how knife crime has suddenly spiralled out of control? All perpetrated by the CIA  so that us proud patriots will want to buy US guns to protect ourselves.Farage and Mogg have already bought massive shares in Colt.

    Buckingham Palace is going to be renamed Trumpington Palace ,the queen kicked out and it turned into a casino.

    South of the M25 will become the 51st state, above that to Scotland is Islamshire where all the U.S undesireables will be housed and tortured . Scotland will become trump’s personal estate .

    UK soccer will have the offside rule removed as none of god’s patriots can understand it.

    The BBC will have to have 30 minutes of adverts every hour.

    Unemployed people will be shipped to the US to be butler’s for republican voters.

    Please share these facts on Facebook.

    tjagain
    Member

    yes Torso – there is a theshold but its fairly low. IIRC about 6%

    One important consequence of the d’Hondt system is that any party with too few votes goes away empty handed, winning no MEPs in that region. The minimum number of votes to get an MEP in a region depends largely on how many are up for election. In the last elections in 2014, 8% secured an MEP in the South East where 10 MEPs were chosen, but 18% was needed to get one in the North East where only three were elected.

    tjagain
    Member

    Higher theshold than I remember
    Of course this splitting of the vote is also on the leave side with 3 leave parties ( ukip. brexit, tory)

    Premier Icon lunge
    Subscriber

    Of course this splitting of the vote is also on the leave side with 3 leave parties ( ukip. brexit, tory)

    And Labour.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    And Labour.

    I still think we’re hearing nowt out of the Tory’s or Labour on Brexit as they’re presently engineering getting a barely altered ‘Mays Deal’ through so that the EU elections never happen. Which is the one thing that unites them both, for pretty obvious reasons

    The leaders of both parties want Brexit and when push comes to shove they’ll deliver it. Maybe there will be a nod to some kind of customs union, but I think Magic Grandad will ultimately go along with anything that will enable Brexit and whip his MPs to do the same. Or attempt to, at least. He’s done so at every critical stage so far

    If you’re in any doubt about labours commitment to Brexit, the labour housing spokesman is presently on Five Live re-stating, in no uncertain terms, labours determination to end freedom of movement. Apparently, all the present EU construction workers are immediately going to be replaced by young locally-recruited apprentices

    tjagain
    Member

    Give it a rest chaps. Labour is NOT a brexit party. Its a badly split party but the weight is on remain as you well know.

    tjagain
    Member

    Mays Deal – again as you well know is only the withdrawal agreement not the final shape of our relationship with the EU – and Labour have very cleverly positioned themselves so that the talks with the tories will collapse and the tories can be blamed.

    scotroutes
    Member

     Labour is NOT a brexit party. Its a badly split party but the weight is on remain as you well know.

    A vote for Labour was/is/will be a vote for “respecting the result of the referendum” – Brexit.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    The leadership, such as they are, are all life-long committed Brexiteers. We’ve been over this countless times, but at every single critical vote Corbyn has whipped his MPs to facilitate Brexit

    “We are NOT a remain party”

    Barry Gardiner

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    It’s very different for your region TJ, but sadly, for most of us, we’ll probably get Brexit Party, Tory & Labour MEPs… and no ChangeUK or Green MEPs, because of the thresholds. The parties most likely to join the “top” three and sneak seats are the LibDems & UKIP… but if ChangeUK & Greens do better than currently expected, then it could just result in no LibDem MEPs. Messy.

    Edit (useful analysis) : https://ig.ft.com/european-parliament-election-polls/

    England FT seat projection (17/04/19):
    Lab 26
    Cons 16
    Brexit 12
    LibDems 5
    UKIP 1
    ChangeUK 0
    Greens 0

    cchris2lou
    Member

    No it is not.
    French press are reporting Farage doing well in polls.

    Labour need to choose quickly or will be decimated.

    tjagain
    Member

    Yes it WAS- but it is not as Binners characterises it nor is that immutable or cast in stone – there is a very large majority in the party for remain / second ref.
    Labour had to go into the last election with “respect the vote” however unlike the tories there is a jhuge majority in the party for remain and as policy develops its moving further and further away from this

    As for not wanting the eu elections – just sheer drivel.

    tjagain
    Member

    but at every single critical vote Corbyn has whipped his MPs to facilitate Brexit

    Bullshit – sheer nonsense.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    Labour is NOT a brexit party.

    Agreed. But while “the party” allows Corbyn, Milne & Murray to keep control, then it will get the Brexit that those life long anti-EU campaigners want. A vote for Labour is a vote of support for that leadership, no matter how strong the current (and possible new) Labour MEPs are on this.

    sheer nonsense

    You are correct. Some key whipping decisions were to abstain, rather than actively support. Much the same result though.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    there is a very large majority in the party for remain / second ref.

    And Corbyn obviously cares what they all think, right? He whipped them to vote to trigger article 50, against remaining in the customs union, then against remaining in the single market.

    Less a cunning plan, more just nodding through the Brexit he’s always wanted

    tjagain
    Member

    So Binners – Starmer is a hard brexiteer is he? Watson? or are they not apart of the leadership?

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Both regularly ignored. He didn’t even take them into his cross-party talks with May. He took Seamus Milne instead. A rabid Brexiteer

    And his cabal have spent the last 12 months trying to get Watson deselected

    Corbyn talks about democracy, but all his actions ignore everyone else’s opinions other than those in his inner sanctum. And they’re all Brexiteers

    mrlebowski
    Member

    +1 Binners.

    Judge a man by his actions – or in Corbyn’s case his inactions too.

    Premier Icon dissonance
    Subscriber

    but at every single critical vote Corbyn has whipped his MPs to facilitate Brexit

    Sorry you are going to have to help me out here since I am sure its me getting it wrong and you not making up bollocks but how on earth was the whipping for the indicative votes (for example) aiming to facilitate brexit.

    Barry Gardiner

    and yet others disagree. I am not sure why you are deifying Barry?

    He didn’t even take them into his cross-party talks with May

    The current members of the cross party talks Labour team are Starmer, McDonnell, Long-Bailey and Hayman.
    Why are you so adverse to the truth?

    tjagain
    Member

    Indeed disonance

    tjagain
    Member

    And his cabal have spent the last 12 months trying to get Watson deselected

    also bullshine.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    Both regularly ignored. He didn’t even take them into his cross-party talks with May.

    Pretty sure Starmer has been in the talks.

    dge a man by his actions – or in Corbyn’s case his inactions too.

    Don’t judge a man by what you read about him in the media…

    mrlebowski
    Member

    I judge a man by the way he’s led his party..

    tjagain
    Member

    Holding together a badly split party? Increasing membership enormously?

    mrlebowski
    Member

    Badly split by his leadership….

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    If you vote Labour then you’re voting for a party whose leadership is fully committed to Brexit

    If you can’t see that, then you’re delusional

    Plenty of us (former labour voters) can see that and will be switching our vote accordingly. Hence I can see an 11th-hour stitch up to get a Brexit deal through before the deadline for EU elections is reached

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    Wait, Corbyn caused the split over Brexit? Don’t be silly.

    scotroutes
    Member

    Rightly or wrongly, those in favour of Brexit have a couple of clear choices of party to vote for, with UKIP and Farage. Those in favour of Remain have a couple of choices, not likely to be as successful. Why would any Remain-inclined voter vote for Labour when their policy is so muddied and unclear? This is the danger of trying to walk a middle ground. Labour can only hope there is no need for these EU elections at all.

    Premier Icon fadda
    Subscriber

    In other news, relating to the splitting of the remain vote…

    https://www.renewparty.org.uk/press_releases

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