Let’s simultaneously defend Corbyn for his stated aims (and whipping of MPs) to get the UK out of the EU, out of the Single Market, out of the Customs Union, to end FoM… AND claim that he in no way wants Brexit to happen. Keep on dancing… and hope voters hear what they want to hear and keep voting Labour (I’m done with it personally).

In his interview Healey also rejected the suggestion that Labour was the remain party. Andrew Adonis, the Labour peer, arch anti-Brexiter and MEP candidate in the South West, made this claim in a Guardian article this week in which he wrote: “Labour is the party for remainers.” But Healey said he did not accept this description of the party’s position. He told the programme:

just to show the split.

If you vote Labour then you’re voting for a party whose leadership is fully committed to Brexit

If you can’t see that, then you’re delusional

Funnny that a large part of the leadership are committed remainers. funny that policy is not for brexit.

who is delusional?

Let’s simultaneously defend Corbyn for his stated aims (and whipping of MPs) to get the UK out of the EU, out of the Single Market, out of the Customs Union, to end FoM

cite? Because that bears very little resemblance to what I actually read from them. And how they have voted.

so you must have all these quotes at your fingertips to be so definite.

If you want to end EU membership, leave the Single Market, leave the Customs Union, end FoM, and are against a referendum on any Brexit that you have a hand in… you are fully committed to Brexit. The fact that you want a Labour Brexit rather than a Tory Brexit doesn’t change the fact that you want Brexit.

Because that bears very little resemblance to what I actually read from them. And how they have voted.

FFS TJ, take the blinkers off.

Lets see the quotes then? Its not me who is blinkered here. I just like the truth to be told and nuanced positions to be considered for what they are.

so come on – lets see the quotes backing what you say – because what you say bears zero resemblance to what I read from the labour party

Read back a few pages and stop time wasting.

Labour confirms it wants to end freedom of movement https://t.co/GEMZSbkHJO

— LabourList (@LabourList) April 3, 2019

From the Labour Party website

Labour respects the result of the referendum, and Britain is leaving the EU.

Can’t say it clearer than that, can they?

The leadership, such as they are, are all life-long committed Brexiteers. We’ve been over this countless times, but at every single critical vote Corbyn has whipped his MPs to facilitate Brexit

Magic grandpa and some of his leadership may be brexiters, but a large percentage of his Mps aren’t.

Both parties are split.

I’m not sure whether the brexit party doing well in the euro elections will actually make that much of a difference. It may put some pressure on Parliament, but if we are still in the EU come june, like UKIP they won’t make an impact in the EU parliament.

From the Labour Party website

Labour respects the result of the referendum, and Britain is leaving the EU.

Can’t say it clearer than that, can they?

It obviously depends on who has admin rights to update the website 😉

I’m assuming the labour leaders must know how dodgy the leave vote was, yet they still ignore the facts and back an attack on democracy by right wing Americans.

Anyone that “respects” the vote is a traitor and I will rain down upon you with my gammony wrath.

Magic grandpa and some of his leadership may be brexiters, but a large percentage of his Mps aren’t.

Neither are the majority of labour members or labour voters. But when has that ever bothered Corbyn? Let’s not forget that here’s a man who lost a vote of no confidence by his own MP’s by 172-40, then carried on like it hadn’t happened, championing ‘the membership’ who’s opinions he’s now treating with similar regard

David Liddington has just mockingly answered Emily Thornbury at PMQ’s that she appears to be on outside the ‘inner circle’ in Brexit negotiations. It’s pretty obvious to anyone who Corbyns actual inner circle is. They’ve all Brexiteers, as its the only people he’s listening too. If he’s, in fact, listening to anyone. It’d be a first.

Would anyone honestly be surprised if there was some kind of stitch-up to get Brexit through before EU elections being held, given past form at these critical moments, of facilitation

I’d be surprised, as the European Elections will be much harder for the Tories than Labour, and us ending up with a Labour government with 12 months becomes more likely, not less, if the elections are allowed to play out. Something I’d welcome, if it wasn’t likely to result in Corbyn’s Brexit, with no referendum in which we might stop it.

 the European Elections will be much harder for the Tories than Labour, and us ending up with a Labour government with 12 months becomes more likely,

I’m not so sure that one follows from the other. Regardless of the result, one or both of Tories and Labour will claim that the Euro Elections did not directly reflect the feelings of the electorate regarding internal governance of the UK and will ignore any bad result as being irrelevant.

Schrödingers Referendum

A drubbing for the Tories means a new leader is more likely… that new leader may well result in enough MPs leaving the party for the government to fall, or at least make calling a general election to try and get a working majority harder to resist.

Labour (at any level, and with any opinion on Brexit) won’t try and prevent the European Elections just to save May.

A drubbing for the Tories means a new leader is more likely

Only if May decides to step down though? I thought she was safe for another year?

Rules likely to change if European Elections go ahead.

eu elections are list PR elections. splitting of the vote does not occur in the same way as with FPTP. one party with 40% of the vote will get the same seats as two parties with 20% each.

It still splits the vote as there are reaminder / leftover votes after each seat, these could add up to more seats. Not to mention areas where they may be hovering around minimal thresholds.

edit – doesn’t work

One thing is for certain. Absolutely anything could happen in these EU elections. Surely this is the first electoral test for the new politics where traditional party loyalties have never counted for less, one issue will derail everything else, and there’s never been so much anger, from all sides, at the established political system

You’d have to be mental to predict what’s going to happen!

From the Labour Party website

Labour respects the result of the referendum, and Britain is leaving the EU.

Can’t say it clearer than that, can they?

TJ – can it be any clearer?

Are you going to correct your previous claims? Or just keep gish galloping/finding a “hilarious” image to post.

and there’s never been so much anger, from all sides, at the established political system

Which is going to be odd considering just how establishment the two new parties are. Stuffed full or career politicans and/or family members of career politicans. Still I suspect a fair few idiots will fall for it.

That is perfectly clear and is the labour policy AT THE TIME OF THE ELECTION. Its changing and nuanced far more than Binners ” corbyn is a hard brexiteer at all costs shtick” That position now is superseded by ” second referendum”

“”There will be some who will tell you that Brexit is a disaster for this country and some who will tell you that Brexit will create a land of milk and honey. The truth is that it’s in our hands: Brexit is what we make of it together.”
JEREMY CORBYN, LEADER OF THE LABOUR PARTY”

Labour’s Plan for Brexit

Seems pretty clear to me..

I thought she was safe for another year?

until the end of the year although there are tories pushing for the rules to be changed so they can redo a internal party no confidence vote earlier (in some cases the same MPs who have said that the referendum is final and no second vote. That they not only want a second vote but to change the rules to make it earlier doesnt seem to have struck them as hypocritical). Also Labour could go for no confidence vote and tory MPs could back it/abstain to get her out.

That is perfectly clear and is the labour policy AT THE TIME OF THE ELECTION

Someone lost the keys to the website computer?

It’s just cognitive dissonance on the part of many people glad that Labour has moved towards the left, but can see the damage Brexit will cause those that the left should be speaking out for.

until the end of the year although there are tories pushing for the rules to be changed so they can redo a internal party no confidence vote earlier (in some cases the same MPs who have said that the referendum is final and no second vote. That they not only want a second vote but to change the rules to make it earlier doesnt seem to have struck them as hypocritical). Also Labour could go for no confidence vote and tory MPs could back it/abstain to get her out.

Ah, there’s always that option I guess. Cheers.

So Tory MPs now dont like the result of the vote they had and now want to change rules to have another go.

Oh. The. Ironing.

Let’s simultaneously defend Corbyn for his stated aims (and whipping of MPs) to get the UK out of the EU, out of the Single Market, out of the Customs Union, to end FoM… AND claim that he in no way wants Brexit to happen.

Well, the thing about politics is that you have to do what voters want, because that’s how you get elected. So it’s less about what Corbyn wants than what will work politically. Hence the fence-sitting. Which is of course why we have a remain voting PM pushing for Brexit.

Why would any Remain-inclined voter vote for Labour when their policy is so muddied and unclear?

Because there’s much more to politics than Brexit, obviously.

One thing is for certain. Absolutely anything could happen in these EU elections.

Can’t argue with that for a change 🙂

Why would any Remain-inclined voter vote for Labour when their policy is so muddied and unclear?

Because there’s much more to politics than Brexit, obviously

Yeah, but this Euro election seems to be regarded as a pseudo referendum. I’m not sure how much other policies will really be considered.

It certainly would be an interesting push on labour if they continue to try to sit on the fence and anti brexit parties make gains at their expense. I don’t see that really happening tho ( apart from the SNP who will make gains) but the english anti brexit parties are ei8thyer badly damaged ( lib dems) or closet tories – the tiggers. I don’t see labour voters voting for them in big numbers

I do not agree with the labour policy, I haven’t voted labour in a decade. I just get fed up of folk on here completely misrepresenting them.

Labour policy is muddied and muddled.

However it is not “hard brexit at all costs” Its about minimising damage and electoral posiutiuoning

Well, the thing about politics is that you have to do what voters want, because that’s how you get elected.

It isn’t what labour voters want, and any form of brexit damages the poorest and implements racism as a policy. Those are totally against labour values.

Besides, the referendum was totally corrupt from head to toe, even yesterday the information commissioner was asking parliament why they had ignored the recommendations about implementing rules that dealt with some of the clear interference.

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-48024553

Knowing that and still implementing it is like finding out your parents were being 419 scammed but telling them they must send the money to Nigeria because they have already agreed to. It is **** insane.

However it is not “hard brexit at all costs” Its about minimising damage and electoral posiutiuoning

It should be about protecting jobs and defending worker’s rights from any future Tory government .

I have been in contact with both my CLP and the Labour Party membership team to fully explain my reasoning for quitting the party and to categorically state that I cannot be a member, canvass on their behalf or vote for them if they continue to ignore the 80% odd of members who voted Remain.

Until things change, I will regard the Labour Party in exactly the same way as I do the conservatives, UKIP and whatever party currently fronted by Farage.

Until things change, I will regard the Labour Party in exactly the same way as I do the conservatives, UKIP and whatever party currently fronted by Farage.

That’s exactly how I feel. Voted labour all my life but there’s no way I can vote for a party that supports Brexit – even a fantasy red one.

Brexit is a right-wing project, always has been, always will be. And it will damage the very people Labour claim to represent the hardest, as the rich profit yet further from the increased inequality it will fuel. And as barely needs pointing out; it’s inherently racist and stokes up nationalism, so should be abhorrent to anyone claiming to be socially liberal

but the English anti Brexit parties are either badly damaged ( lib dems) or closet tories – the tiggers. I don’t see labour voters voting for them in big numbers

I think both you and your namesake might be in for a bit of a surprise there Uncle Jezza

In the big cities, who are liberal and overwhelmingly aren’t anti-immigrant, the anti-Brexit vote will eat into both Tory and Labour pro-Brexit stances

It isn’t what labour voters want, and any form of brexit damages the poorest and implements racism as a policy.

I think those are highly contentious statements.

They’re not even remotely contentious. They’re self-evident.

We’re not saying everyone who voted for Brexit is racist, but every single racist voted for Brexit. For obvious reasons. It’s isolationist and backward-gazing and entrenches divisions in society, and suspicion of ‘outsiders’ who its narrative blames for everything.

And every single economic study shows the results of any Brexit will be decreased incomes and rising living costs, so it absolutely will hit the poorest hardest

I don’t see how anyone who classes themselves as socially liberal or internationalist can support any form of Brexit

which bit of them?

“the Labour position is for a better Brexit“

John Healey, Today programme, 24th April 2019

“We have committed ourselves to trying to deliver the referendum result… Labour is not a remain party now… “

Barry Gardiner, Today programme, 27th March 2019