Employer refusing annual leave

It does yes.

However, it is not unusual for holiday entitlements to be subject to the operational requirements of the organisation. Such restrictions might only allow you to take annual leave at certain times of the year, for example at company shutdown times. The organisation may also limit the number of days that may be taken at any one time.

But the employer have not given any operational difficulties as reason for refusal, this woulsd then mean they are being unreasonable.

Flexibility is needed by both, saying I’m taking my holidays then and you can lump isn’t being flexible.

With 9 months notice?!?!
If you gave 6 months notice to take two weeks off during the school hols so that you could have a nice family holiday, and were never informed of any restrictions, would an offer of two weeks in October be ok?
I don’t think it would, and if I had a request turned down for no good reason, why on earth should I feel obliged to carry on putting in extra effort when it’s not in the contract which I had just had wafted in my face?
I think we broadly agree, I’m just saying that flexibility works both ways.
An employer dictating holiday dates might be as per contract, but the ability to work additional hours and moving at short notice is down to the the employee.

Wreckers view is pretty reasonable

2 weeks holiday with 9 month notice is not exactly an unreasonable request and its highly unlikely the company will collapse without this minor employee

Dictating holidays is one thing refusing them routinely another

FWIW we had this when they banned all holidays for a 4 month period – it was jan to may s few cared. However it then meant it was literally impossible ” due to cover and limits of numbers per week” for us to all take our holidays in our team and they would not let folk carry them over

This, not unreasonably, led to many unhappy employees and the worst year of sickness our team ever had.

Its a relationship and when one side is unreasonable – employee or employer, then things get messy

The employer is being highly inflexible

one thing that may not have been mentioned.

my employer will only allocate next years leave january 1st you cannot book prior to jan 1st.

But the employer have not given any operational difficulties as reason for refusal, this woulsd then mean they are being unreasonable.

Did they not? All we have is the OPs version his GF’s version of events.

I think we broadly agree, I’m just saying that flexibility works both ways.

We are agreeing but your post I responded to with pic sounded like a kid stamping the feet and saying no. 😀

The employer is being highly inflexible

I’m not sure we have enough details to call that.

Drac you may be an admin, but get out of your arse, you know no more facts than us, with the informatin given everything the OP’s girlfriend has done has been more than ‘reasonable and flexible’!! Joust because YOU[/u] are making assumptions about needs of the business doesn’t make you right, just someone spoiling for an argument. Not a great position for an admin.

So as it stands without further info the employers are being an arse end of….

…with further info that it might affect unduly the running of the business then they may have a valid argument.

Blimey.

Have you read my original post before you went on your rampage?

Things might have changed but in banking there was a restriction in annual leave when the banking exams were taking place (April/May IIRC).

My current employer has a “no holidays” rule in July/August as this is peak tourist season.

I’d imagine that other industries have similar restrictions, but I’d expect them to be similarly justified.

Drac you may be an admin,

Not that his status is remotely relevant to the discussion but, no he isn’t.

Yup we have no holidays christmas / New year week in the NHS – so we are fully staffed and don’t have to use temps

As said there’s no obligation for them to give 2 weeks of or the weeks you want, check her contract though for a clause and look for other staff who have had 2 werks off but that’s easy for employers to get around.

Don’t let her go sick you’ve just told told them you’re going on holiday. Don’t spit the dummy just because you can’t take your holidays when you want, they’re paying you to provide a service you can’t just please yourself.

This one?

The one that says no obligation to give her 2 weeks which directly contravenes the working time directive as long as she has given 4 weeks notice and there are no stipulations in her contract ( which we have not been informed of either way!!)

Cougar with respect look at his name and title

Drac – Moderator

Yeah you misunderstand the law on holidays.

Cougar with respect look at his name and title

I had noticed, oddly enough.

Where’s it say “Admin”?

The hustler – Drac is right on that. They have no obligation to give her two weeks together nor the weeks of her choice. They have to give her 28 days minimum over a year – thats all the WTD states

Funnily enough on the WTR it states that.

The organisation may also limit the number of days that may be taken at any one time.

We are agreeing but your post I responded to with pic sounded like a kid stamping the feet and saying no.

Not how it was intended to come across. All we have is the OP’s version to go on, do we not? If that were it in terms of detail, I’d not be overly impressed. There is always an internal calculation when deciding whether to go the extra mile for an employer, and my point was that this would weigh quite heavy in the minus column.

No doubt wrecker.

Yeah exactly we only have his version.

Cougar – Moderator

Cougar with respect look at his name and title

I had noticed, oddly enough.

Where’s it say “Admin”? [/quote]

what cougar should’ve said is that Moderators do not hold any actual power but just report stuff up the chain and can check a few things, they dont represent the site and are not all holy like Admins… but he’s just a stupid Mod so forgets not everyone spends their life on-line to know the difference 😀

Once again. Employees are not entitled to select their annual leave.

In a lot of the better organisations to work for, within reason, they are. Arsey and inflexible employers can expect arsey and inflexible staff. The better staff will find a better organisation to work for, who will probably be a competitor of said arsey employer.

Sigh!

It’s all give and take. Without further input from the OP we don’t really know why it’s been refused and hence can’t understand where the give-take coefficient stands.

If i requested 2 weeks holiday 9 months in advance and it was rejected, in general I’d be pissed off.

If I’d requested 2 weeks holiday 9 months in advance knowing that those 2 weeks coincided with our major annual trade show, my employer would be rightly pissed off and would be perfectly reasonable to reject them.

The employer is being highly inflexible
I’m not sure we have enough details to call that.

You think its likely that they cannot cope with the persons absence for an extra week with 9 months notice?
the business will truly be adversely affected by this minor HR person absence? Any business can cope with someon off for two weeks. What happens if she gets ill then – the company folds?

I think the most likely, by a very long way, is that this is unlikely to be the case and the employer is being inflexible
True we cannot be certain but i suspect not getting two weeks holiday is very very uncommon

While folk are posting about this years and next years holidays under the actually Govt regulations paid holidays are accumulated by working – so irrelevant of what time of year it is, how many paid holiday days have you ACTUALLY accumulated?

And IMO if any Manager (at a reasonably sized operation) just rejected a request for 2 weeks in 9 months time without a solid reason, they’re on shaky ground and/or don’t GAS.

What shaky grounds is this?

I used to have quite difficult requirements with this – only having very certain weeks a manager would allow me to take, on top of the expected seasonal restrictions. I was also limited from taking more than a week off at a time.
This despite the manager taking a month at a time, over the weeks I would like to have had off but told “we’re too busy” and “it’s a difficult customer – it needs senior staff in”….
It took 18 months of effort and negotiations. I got really planned on when I wanted my fortnight, and why I needed a week off then (my kids were on holidays) and how I would mitigate me being away (trust my senior instructors please mrs_manager).
Eventually the manager and employer were informed that I wanted that fortnight off, that I had planned and had responsible staff in place, and that if permission was not granted, I would be seeking new employment.
Said manager was told by MD to make it happen and not upset me, as holidays were vital to health, wellbeing and motivation of staff.

Be clear in your arguments and escalate it up the hierarchy as you need.

what cougar should’ve said is that Moderators do not hold any actual power but just report stuff up the chain and can check a few things, they dont represent the site and are not all holy like Admins… but he’s just a stupid Mod so forgets not everyone spends their life on-line to know the difference

That’s about the size of it. Admin, for want of a better word, are paid employees who are responsible for the maintenance of the site. Moderators are volunteers with relatively limited access; we can amend posts and issue warnings etc, but that’s about it. Anything that requires, say, a change to the codebase, or even things like email address changes, are out of our hands.

Which is why it chaffs my arse when people use it as a stick to beat us with, or as a point-scoring tool. When we’re posting in discussions, we’re users just like everyone else (and I’d expect my colleagues to moderate me as such if I step out of line).

While folk are posting about this years and next years holidays under the actually Govt regulations paid holidays are accumulated by working – so irrelevant of what time of year it is, how many paid holiday days have you ACTUALLY accumulated?

I don’t know if it’s just our policy or applies more generally, but there’s nothing to stop folk taking holidays they haven’t yet accrued, as they will accrue them as the year rolls on. Should they leave the business before that happens, any plus or minus is calculated into the final salary payment.

I don’t know if it’s just our policy or applies more generally, but there’s nothing to stop folk taking holidays they haven’t yet accrued, as they will accrue them as the year rolls on. Should they leave the business before that happens, any plus or minus is calculated into the final salary payment.

Kind of both that one.

I’ve just asked HR.

They’ve said that in their experience with other companies, it generally works as I’ve described. However, it’s down to individual company policy rather than legislation.

Yeah you build them up in time but when you leave they’ll calculate your hours either pay any remainder or allow you take them in with your notice. If you owe then they’ll knock it off your final pay. It’s up to the employer as you say whether they allow you take them before earning them. Two part question.

Drac – Moderator
Sigh!

You can sigh all you like, but if you as an employer make the better staff who are likely more able to obtain employment elsewhere fed up with working for you by expecting flexibility but not reciprocating, your best staff may well become your best competitors.

There is a balance as I have said, but a happy relaxed workforce us usually far more productive than an unhappy stressed one. Stupid petty arguments e.g. about leave tend to lead to the latter, not the former.

Yes that’s been said waaaaay back by myself and others, it doesn’t change the fact that the law states that you’re not entitled to pick your holidays.

😀

Drac +1 again!!!

Yes that’s been said waaaaay back by myself and others, it doesn’t change the fact that the law states that you’re not entitled to pick your holidays.

The law is fairly irrelevant here. If employers want their staff to perform well, treat them nicely. If employers would like you’re best performing staff to become their best competitors, treat them like shit. The law is an absolute bare minimum, not a gold standard to aspire to.

The OP asked if an employee can restrict holidays so the law is very relevant. No one at all has argued it’s a bit shitty but certain employees have to have such restrictions, anyone with a bit sense would check conditions out before accepting a job.

+1

AIUI, the law can restrict holidays if situations require it (year end, others in team already booked, and so forth). They can’t just do it arbitrarily.

If I was working somewhere were I was so indispensable that I couldn’t take more than five consecutive days off, I’d expect to be seriously recompensed for that in my salary.

They can’t just do it arbitrarily.

Oh they can.

My reading of the laws around this agree with Drac. There is no requirement on the part of the employer to be reasonable unlike with such things as family friendly hours and disability adjustments where they have to be reasonable