There’s a lot of people an EV doesn’t make sense

Really? How many? What proportion of the UK drive more than 130 miles a day?

Range isn’t the only criteria when selecting what makes sense. Cost, ability to charge, shape/size for what you need,… are also factors.

Not everyone lives in a 2.4 bedroom sub-urban semi with a driveway. I would need an extension lead from my 3rd floor apartment kitchen, across the floor, up out the skylight window, down across balcony, down 1 floor, across neighbours roof, down 1 more floor, along the length of an 8 car carport, down to my car.  And that’s only feasible cos I now rent a parking space in view of my kitchen.

Possible, but doesn’t make sense.  Couple of charging points at work (in a 6 floor multistorey). 1 in the street near work that might do 2 cars.

And the newest semi’s in my village back home have driveways so small that you’ll only ever get 1 on the drive at any one time. So 2 car households will be history, or jiggery pokery swapping cars about before bed time to get the other one on charge.

If I have to move house for it to makes sense, then it doesn’t make sense. More than happy to stand for 5 minutes and pour some electrons in to the battery.

They are A solution, or part of the solution, but not THE solution (yet). Maybe one day every parking space that’s not a driveway will have charging.  I’ll happily keep paying for 98 octane until then.

So 2 car households will be history,

Not exactly a bad thing.

The future isn’t car ownership at all, the times we are in of owning your own car will be looked back on as a tiny blip in human history. Not too far off will be all electric vehicles called to your home with an app or similar to take you on your journey. Driving yourself will be a hobby for the rich. I work in the EV industry and after EV cars comes autonomous cars, it’s no more than 50 years away before private ownership is a thing of the past.

The future isn’t car ownership at all, the times we are in of owning your own car will be looked back on as a tiny blip in human history. Not too far off will be all electric vehicles called to your home with an app or similar to take you on your journey. Driving yourself will be a hobby for the rich. I work in the EV industry and after EV cars comes autonomous cars, it’s no more than 50 years away before private ownership is a thing of the past.

Taking cabs everywhere would be cheaper for most people than the full costs of car ownership – and yet only the poorest don’t own a car for financial reasons. Unless it’s forced in some way, I don’t see this prediction coming to pass. Sure it would be environmentally beneficial, but I just don’t see it happening by itself.

Oh and we can start talking about autonomous cars when they start to exist on the general market. I we’re a lot further away from an autonomous car that can cope with unusual events as effectively as a human than this sort of thinking would have us believe.

interesting to see the predicted date of 2024 bandied about. That’s roughly when I reckon my 2009 petrol Mazda might be coming up for replacement.

I’d love a leccy car, but since there’s nothing wrong with my car, and I live in a terraced area where I can’t always park on my street let alone outside my house, and MrsDoris (who mostly uses the car anyway) doesn’t have chargers at work, it’ll be a while.

Roll on 2024 🙂

Taking cabs everywhere would be cheaper for most people than the full costs of car ownership – and yet only the poorest don’t own a car for financial reasons. Unless it’s forced in some way, I don’t see this prediction coming to pass. Sure it would be environmentally beneficial, but I just don’t see it happening by itself.

This – about 10 years ago my parents’ car was coming up for replacement, so dad did some sums and realised that it would actually be cheaper to take cabs everywhere instead.

He bought a car anyway. Preferred the convenience, and would have felt silly getting a cab to Snowdonia to go for a hike…

Seems that some people think that pre-heating car via electricity is EV-only thing but it is very common accessory to any car particularly in Scandinavian market.

The idea is to heat engine to minimize cold weather consumption and reduce engine wear in low temps but it improves efficiency even at +5C. Typically there is small extra heater in cabin too and sometimes a battery charger too – the system is usually powered via external outlet post with timer.
Cost for the system is ~ 150EUR without installation costs, running costs depend on how long the system is run. Engine block heaters are typically 500W and cabin heaters are 750-2000W.

They’re a factory fit option for lots of cars, are they not?

Meh to much of the above. They won’t work for every one atm but will for me which is why I tested one.

For those that it does work for go for a spin. As I said in the title, they’re properly ace compared to normal hatchbacks regardless of any other reason than the actual driving experience.

We’ve had an i3Rex for 2.5 years. Bought it originally for dad taxi trips to and from swimming/rugby/football etc. But it quickly became the car of choice 95% of the time.

Since September the kids have gone to a school over 25 miles away, so I’ve been racking up over 100 miles a day extra on school days.

I have hardly used the Rex, but do find it comforting to know it’s there and makes it easy to push the range. My brother got a non Rex and doesn’t us it as much as we do.

Up until this weekend I’ve only charged it at home, but did a 280 mile round trip on Saturday. I was a bit concerned about using the chargers, it turned out to be unfounded and I was very impressed with them.

Currently also run a discovery sport as well, but I think I’ll be putting a deposits on a Model Y as soon as they become available.

They are A solution, or part of the solution, but not THE solution (yet)

There’s never going to be one single solution, just as there isn’t one single problem.

I like the I3, and would have an electric car if I could, but it just really didn’t work yet. I do tow, up to about 3tons, and I go off road with the trailer on. I regularly go 400miles in a day although my regular commute is 25miles. I also like blatting down to the alps in a day, which might preclude me from having one unless I want to add several day to each holiday. So, they don’t work yet but it’s coming and I’m all for it as soon as I can!

Seems that some people think that pre-heating car via electricity is EV-only thing but it is very common accessory to any car particularly in Scandinavian market.

I am fully aware of externally powered heaters in colder climates but they aren’t a patch on what EVs can do; EVs can warm up without being plugged in, so you can do it wherever the car is, especially if you are at a location where you cannot plug it in.

I used to absolutely love the heated windscreen in my old Focus, but the various methods of clearing a windscreen just aren’t needed when an EV can clear it before you’ve got in or much quicker when you have.

For anyone who wants a 48hr test drive of an eGolf
https://insideevs.com/news/353880/48-hour-test-drive-vw-e-golf/

VW Marketing:

The charm of the e-Golf is it has all of the talents of the familiar Golf hatch, with the simple addition of an electric powertrain

funny as that’s what I don’t like about the e-Golf… it’s just another Golf

134 bhp and 393 lb-ft of torque

not sure about that torque figure

2 car households will be history,

I dunno, there might be a sort of stop-gap period where two car households have a leccy job for daily local journeys, and a big old IC or hybrid for longer-range family missions at the weekends that probably sits in-used for 95% of its life just because of range anxiety, lack of infrastructure and maintaining a bit of status… The parking limitations and car shuffling shenanigans you describe don’t currently stop people owning more cars than they absolutely need so I can’t see that changing…

Only by people who live in a quiet village with secure car parking

Not really, its par for the course in places like canada along with a sump heater.(was when I lived in Calgary in 1998-99).. and has been for decades with a remote. It’s also available on some premium cars… presumably no-one selling cars in the UK thought this was a marketable feature?

I dunno, there might be a sort of stop-gap period where two car households have a leccy job for daily local journeys, and a big old IC or hybrid for longer-range family missions at the weekends that probably sits in-used for 95% of its life

This is almost exactly us. We have a Leaf that is the other half’s car, used daily for commutes (16miles e/w) and school runs (20miles e/w). It’s perfect for those ubiquitous uses. I own the ‘big old IC’; a chunky Navara that does family camping holiday, MTBing and general fetching and carrying duties, including materials for my many hobbies/projects. I also run a little panda for my commuting and school runs because when it’s just me and a couple of young lads, 2.5 tonnes of diesel car is a bit excessive. We are lucky; we have adequate space to be able to have the right tools for our jobs. Ecars are great, but they aren’t yet the whole solution. Not sure if they ever will be, but that’s okay. An E-Navara would certainly be a very interesting vehicle, but I suspect exorbitantly expensive until batteries get lots cheaper.

Taking cabs everywhere would be cheaper for most people than the full costs of car ownership – and yet only the poorest don’t own a car for financial reasons. Unless it’s forced in some way, I don’t see this prediction coming to pass.

You do realise a big chunk of the cost of a cab ride is paying for the driver’s time? After that it’s likely the petrol. Autonomous EV cabs make a lot of sense and will be vastly cheaper, the problem is the time it will take to come to fruition (partly capability but mostly legal restrictions). 50 years seems a bit pessimistic to me but I can certainly seeing it being 25 years, and that’s still a long long time.

Tesla leasing (or possibly the next version of it anyway) in the US factors  in Tesla then using the end of lease returned cars to create an EV taxi service, with the plan it will be autonomous where locations allow. That’s a lot shorter time frame but I can’t see it being widespread due to legislation.

This is almost exactly us

And would be us … 90% of my driving trips and probably 95%+ by time I need to carry 2/3 bikes, be able to lock them inside a vehicle and park in a off-grid field.

Time is usually of the essence … it’s Jnr’s sleep time
2 weeks ago we drove from Surrey to Rev’s … then to Cheltenham and stopped in a motel (with no charging so far as I noticed) .. topped up in the morning whilst buying coffee on the way to 417 .. then drove home after for Jnr to jump in the shower and go to bed…
Next weekend … Surrey to Innerleithen … refuelled near Penrith and parked in a field then drive back to Surrey in time for me to go to bed… (still caked in mud) …

These would have been very different weekends with an EV…. probably not really practical … we usually eat on the hoof etc. To save time and fill-up or top up as part of it.

Most local stuff I cycle…
The OH should have an EV (drives to the same school to teach as Jnr attends for now)… I really need a van but most likely we’d end up with 3 vehicles.

on the cab heating thing, certainly my Amarok had it as an option, and the 5 series we had at work for a demo car had it as standard. I think it’s out there more than you think!

Oh, and I do mean, remote control / timer set, non engine start cab heating.

Sure, many premium cars have fuel-powered heating / cooling solution (Eberspächer, Webasto) as a factory option which can be started on timer, remote control or phone. Those heaters can be installed on most cars as aftermarket item, costing around 1500 – 2000EUR here. The electric heater combo is just so much cheaper than those things and completely service free.
My point is that improvement in cabin heating is just a not good enough reason for buying a new car, EV or not.

Sure, many premium cars have fuel-powered heating / cooling solution (Eberspächer, Webasto) as a factory option which can be started on timer,

I wouldn’t call the Ford Focus a premium car. Nevertheless, a factory fit fuel powered heater run from a timer was an option.

Nevertheless, a factory fit fuel powered heater run from a timer was an option.

As it also was on a 2003 Rover 75.

I’m sure someone on here has a (petrol) Jag XF that he’s mentioned can be preheated from an app while he’s having breakfast, so he can get into a nice warm car.

VW Marketing:

The charm of the e-Golf is it has all of the talents of the familiar Golf hatch, with the simple addition of an electric powertrain

funny as that’s what I don’t like about the e-Golf… it’s just another Golf

That’s exactly why we like (and have) an e-Golf. We find it a brilliant car – family of 4 and 2 dogs no problem. Great fun at traffic lights too 🙂

The Tesla annual shareholder meeting yesterday was pretty interesting. I know Elon has a rep for being very ambitious with his timelines when predicting things but he reckons with the v3 hardware Tesla’s will be capable of autonomous driving by the end of the year (but still require driver supervision) and by the end of next year would be capable of working driverless (but that obviously needs agreement from regulators to). I think 2 years is optimistic but maybe 25 is pessimistic.

Some interesting insights into the problems with the car park summon feature to (that car parks are actually very complicated places and running people over isn’t a good thing :p ).

As it also was on a 2003 Rover 75.

You come from a class above me, perchy. I could only dream of a 75.

I’m sure someone on here has a (petrol) Jag XF that he’s mentioned can be preheated from an app while he’s having breakfast, so he can get into a nice warm car.

That would be me. All current model JLR vehicles with an automatic gearbox include remote start and climate control from an app on your phone.

Tesla’s will be capable of autonomous driving by the end of the year (but still require driver supervision) and by the end of next year would be capable of working driverless (but that obviously needs agreement from regulators to). I think 2 years is optimistic but maybe 25 is pessimistic.

But he gets the headlines. I think we are on the cusp and there are already driverless cars on “some” roads. Still a lot to do to overcome complex situations but I think the pace of development is exponential so a small number of years is my guess. The challenges will be less technical and more behavioral IMO.

All current model JLR vehicles

A weeny bit more expensive than the lowest spec Zoe (itself the cheapest EV) which has had it as standard since 2012, no?

I never thought id say this but i’m looking forward to the day that cars can drive themselves (whether or not they are electric) as anything that makes my MS easier to live with is a bonus,  Just got a new VW Tiguan DSG (motability scheme vehicle) and that comes with advanced cruise control, lane assist and automatic/emergency braking amongst other electronic wonders, on decent A roads and above i can set the cruise control and the car will speed up/slow down, come to a stop,set off when encountering traffic. On a recent drive to glasgow from galloway i only had to cover the brake a handful of times for the occasional roundabout, never once touched the accelerator, obviously you have to pay attention to other traffic and steer but the car can do an amazing job at maintaining lane position and is effortless to drive for distances.

Coming from a previous life in which i entertained myself with old school cars such as mk2 sciroccos/corrados/mk1/2 golfs all running daft but fun stages of tuning etc it’s a bit of a learning curve to trust the electronics but i’m getting there considering the first vehicle I’ve ever owned with electric windows was my previous 2013 VW Caddy, technology is great!…roll on the future.

PS : i still want the hover boards we were promised though.

All current model JLR vehicles

A weeny bit more expensive than the lowest spec Zoe (itself the cheapest EV) which has had it as standard since 2012, no

Zoe from 22 to 28 grand, Jaguar E-Pace from 29.

But I wasn’t comparing cost, I was simply making a statement about functionality. And it’s not apples to apples, comparing a mass market brand with a premium marque.

FWIW I’m a big electric car fan, and can’t wait to swap my XF for either an I-Pace or a Model S.

Until there’s a body kit to make the Honda EV look like the prototype did I’ll stick to my fuel guzzler (and ride to work as I do now anyway).

I also like blatting down to the alps in a day

I’d hire a car for this if I could make it easy and painless, and not too expensive.

Drove Swansea to Newcastle the other day in a Hyundai Kona. One charge strategy which involved a stop at a holiday inn express off the M1 near Notthingham. One hr to charge, 3 hrs to get food from a local pub from which i caught a case of the squits. Make of that what you will.

It is a downside of doing longer EV journeys – that you’re forced down the route of spending time/money at low quality/overpriced establishments like motorway services or certain hotels.

Was reading about the idea of using battery banks to service peak demand with cheaper leccy in charging locations. Certainly be looking at grants for that sort of thing if I owned a cafe/restaurant/hotel with some spare land for parking and chargers.