Ebike / Lakes NW fells advice

I posted a while ago about hiring a bike from Cyclewise and riding around the NW fells (Grisedale Pike, Rigg Beck, Whiteless Pike etc) and got some superb advice – cheers.

Looking on the Cyclewise site, I can hire an ebike for about £20 more than a decent full sus (£73 for a Nukeproof Mega Comp vs £95 for a Cube Stereo or equivalent.

So if I’m already spending £73 an extra £20 to potentially get a lot more range on my one day riding in the Lakes seems like a bit of a no brainer.

Now I have precisely zero experience of ebikes. I’m wondering just how much more elevation/distance I can expect if I’m riding with assistance? I’m moderately fit, but it’s ages since I’ve ridden in the Lakes. Last big loop I did was 36 miles and 5,207ft and took me just over 7 hours including rests. That was out the back of Skiddaw, taking in some fairly chunky monkey climbs and hike-a-bike (probably not the standard route).

The other question is, will the NW fells be rammed with walkers and no fun at all on a weekend in June? I’ve never really explored that area so dunno if I’m just setting myself up for stress (I’m not averse to cheeky, but I do try and plan my routes sympathetically). If not, what’s a better option from Cyclewise in Whinlatter?

Ta!

Now I have precisely zero experience of ebikes.

Suggestion from me is a half day hire from cyclewise and a try out around Whinlatter. They do need a bit of understanding to get the best out of it in terms of range for a bigger day. Find the motor sweet spot, shifting with all the extra torque, appreciating that you can manage the battery using lower power for longer range and still have fun…

It would be a downer to get the bike, hop on and eat the battery in 25% of your planned tour. And don’t plan on lifting it over many fences / gates and yes, e-bike or not it will be busy. Just follow Rule 1. Be nice, say Hi!

Yeah that’s my worry! But I have literally a single day to ride, then I’m back to the flatlands for the rest of the year (bar a week in Dumfries and Galloway, but I’ll talk about that later…)

Busy I can handle, and be nice say hi is my modus operandi regardless!

Be aware that any kind of hike-a-bike is misery with an ebike unless you are strong like bull.

Yeah I did think that as well… But most of the NW stuff I’m looking at *should* be rideable (or at least pushable)

You should be fine doing the Borrowdale Bash on an ebike.  Not much in the way of elevation and it’s a fun enough route to give the bike some Welly. Easy to do in half a day, so you could do the ‘bash in the morning and a few runs of Whinlatter in the afternoon.

Aye I’ve done the Bash a few times (on a regular bike), fancied something a bit different. Plus it’ll be a bit of a slog from Whinlatter to Keswick and back (though I guess the e would make that more bearable)

The route you plotted could be pretty tough. Grizedale Pike will be a stiff carry at the top. Gasgale Gill was mostly walking and carrying when i last did it. I wonder if you might be better going up Coledale Beck from Newlands? This come with a health warning as I have never done it but looked down it from above. Others may be able to advise.

If you are prepared to carry, you could ride up from Stoneycroft to the saddle between Scar Crags and Sail. The zig zags up from the saddle are totally rideable on a normal bike so will go easily on an e bike.

The carry up onto crag hill is steep and rocky. There is no option but to carry.  How confident are you on steep ground with some exposure?

Whiteless Pike is mint. You could return via Rigg Beck as it is great on an e bike as I found out in February.

Having done the 4 passes with a Scott e bike that appeared to have been made from depleted uranium, I managed it fine but then I am somewhat bloody minded and was already used to hike a bikes with a steel fat bike. Mark who did it with me found it the hardest ride he had ever done.

Range very much depends on how much assistance you use. Climbing eats through power faster than on the flat. You may find that you end up riding no further nor higher than on a regular bike.

Skiddaw and Ullock Pike are an option for e bikes if you are comfortable on sections that are steep, loose and  / or rocky?

Hope this helps? Feel free to fire questions at me as I’ve been testing a Pivot Shuttle SL for several months and done a fair bit of hike a bike in the Lakes with it.

Cheers

Sanny

I can’t think of a single way up there that has no hike a bike and won’t be absolutely awful with a 25kg bike to hump around. You’ll not get to the top of Grisedale Pike and even if you do, it’s one of the hardest steepest rideable trails in the Lakes and not a place I’d suddenly want 250w of extra power I’m not used to moving about underneath me.

You can do as Sanny suggested up Coledale Beck but to get there you’d be best joining the last half of the Grisedale Pike descent from Whinlatter Red South Loop’s high point. There’s still hike a bike up Coledale though.

It’ll be grim.

Doing that kind of riding I’d want to be doing it on a bike im familiar with and probably not a hired one full stop

on an ebike I think you are going to have the worst of all worlds. Trying to save battery so killing yourself lumping a lump, or going for it and ending up with no battery halfway up a hill pushing an elephant

If there is any section that requires full on carrying good luck with that !

Now I have precisely zero experience of ebikes. I’m wondering just how much more elevation/distance I can expect if I’m riding with assistance? I’m moderately fit, but it’s ages since I’ve ridden in the Lakes.

I don’t have anything to add on route selection bar the observation that pushing/carrying a ‘full fat’ e-mtb is very hard work. Conversely, riding up hills with assistance is considerably easier than the same climb on a conventional mountain bike. Range calculation is a pretty rough science ime. The basics are that using high assistance levels and banging up climbs at full chat will burn through battery power very quickly, but will obviously take less time.

Using eco or whatever the particular mode is called, will still give appreciable support – think a really strong tail wind – but without using anything like as much power. All of which is very simply and very obvious, but it’s quite easy to get carried away and go zooming up everything in sight because, hey, it’s fun, then spend the rest of the ride trying not to burn through your remaining two bars of battery.

Personally I’d rather ride a normal bike or a lightweight e-mtb, not least because coping the sheer weight of a full-on e-mtb on nadgery, steep tech is an acquired taste / learned skill, but everyone’s different. I’m biased as I mostly don’t ride e-mtbs, even though I have access to one.

One other though: when it comes to carrying / pushing up steeps, I suspect it’s easier if you’re a hulking, huge strong 90kg+ rider rather than a flyweight and someone will be along in a minute to tell you how they did the Four Passes route with a Kenevo and spare battery and the carrying was easy etc.

Ah cheers all, this is exactly the kind of feedback I was hoping for!

I’m trying to figure out a way to bring my own bike (which will open up the option for early morning/late evening sneaky routes rather than having to cram everything into one day) but it’s not looking promising.

I think I might shelve the eBike idea, sounds like it’s probably going to be more hassle than it’s worth. I’m not averse to a hike-a-bike (and I’m definitely not a flyweight) but I’ve picked up an eBike before and I wouldn’t fancy hoiking it up a proper sketchy hill.

@BadlyWiredDog

Not a Kenevo but a very heavy Scott Genius……..well, you did ask!

I reckon this sums up the challenge pretty well.

I am not a big fan of full fat e bikes – the handling is challenging compared to a normal bike. Slower to slow down, heavy when it comes to gnadgery slow speed tech, much heavier to carry.

Cheers

Sanny

Yeah that’s not selling the idea tbh!

The handling is an issue too, it’ll be bad enough being on an unfamiliar bike let alone a super heavy one.

If you want an eebable route with some gnarr then how about:

Bash as far as Honister.

Up Honister

Down Warnscale megatech

Up rigg beck from Buttdale, or up newlands and then Ard Crags.

Once you’ve done the Rigg Beck descent  ( or Rigg Screes) go up Stoneycroft to Barrow ( or indeed Causey o)

Most of those ascents is rideable on a neeb, so should be piss on an eeb

Interesting. Though I’ll be honest, I’ve walked down Warnscale, not sure I fancy it on an unfamiliar bike. It was about two feet of snow though.

If you want an eebable route with some gnarr then how about:

Filed for reference. I have a mate in the northern Lakes who’s just bought a Norco e-mtb and was looking at options for something slightly longer than the bash local to him. He’s new to the whole e-mtb thing, so open to suggestions/obliteration 🙂

Not a Kenevo but a very heavy Scott Genius……..well, you did ask!

I reckon this sums up the challenge pretty well.

Yes, I’ve watched that before. I did the Four Passes a few years back on a Ragley Ti and one of its plus points, was that it was light enough not to be a total ball-ache when shouldered/pushed. I’m unconvinced that Nick Craig needs electric assistance under any circumstances…

It’s been mentioned in previous North Lakes threads but the Bash with Langstraff/Angle Tarn/Sty Head/Seathwaite extension is one of the best days I’ve had on a bike.

You can push ebikes in walk mode, which would allow a not too strenuous ascent of stakes pass from langstrath, then across to angle tarn/esk hause/styhead and down. Minimal to zero need to actually carry the bike. Go up the west side of langstrath to the bridge just below stakes, as the east side is pretty tedious.

been mentioned in previous North Lakes threads but the Bash with Langstraff/Angle Tarn/Sty Head/Seathwaite extension is one of the best days I’ve had on a bike.

Might do that this Friday.  Though we’ll go up Grains Gill as I reckon it’s better than Langstrath,/ Stake on a neeb

@thegeneralist

Never gone up langstrath to get to angle tarn either via stake pass or direct. I have however gone across from Langdale Pikes to Rossett Pike. Past the pass, I kept thinking it would be better in the other direction.

Would riding down Langstrath from Angle Tarn be worth doing? Never tried it. Any advice anyone?

I have walked up Grains Gill and it would be fine to carry up. You could extend it up onto Great End, of course……..just saying! Sounds like the perfect opportunity to do it if you are already heading up Grains Gill. Much easier to top out from there than back home……

Cheers

Sanny

PS @badlyewireddog

You are right. Nick does not need electrical assistance.  I think the bike actually slowed him down when we did that little adventure.

I’m taking detailed notes on this and will be plotting out routes forthwith.

Almost too much choice…

Just seen this – a few comments on the original route…

Coledale Beck to Force Crag should be mostly doable on an ebike (we get a decent way up on regular bikes). There will be a little bit of pushing near the top, but not much. If you’re intent on bagging Grisedale Pike, then you can turn right at the saddle and pedal up to the summit then turn round and enjoy the descent back down. Otherwise turn left and head towards Whiteless Pike.

Gasgale Gill is pretty heavily washed away and will be awkward either direction. A better time will be had if you turn left at the bottom of Whiteless, and head up Sail Beck towards Rigg Beck.

@sanny – there’s not much of a track from Angle Tarn to Langstrath, unless you’re dropping via Stake Pass. I’ve never ridden down that side of Stake, but I’d be inclined to agree with Tristan – it looks decidedly meh and not one I’d bother with.

@thegeneralist – up Stoneycroft to either Causey or Barrow is an excellent suggestion.

Lastly, @flyingmonkeycorps – coming back to your original route idea – it would be a long, but nowhere near impossible, and still very much enjoyable day on a regular bike. No need for an ebike if you ask me

Bookmarking for reference for this summer’s holiday – thanks all!

Nice, cheers @justinbieber.

Yeah TBF if I was taking a bike I’d happily do a non e ride and just take my time. I like a big day out with lots of hills!

So change of plan. I can take my bike. I’ve even set it up tubeless for the occasion.

That means I have all day, and I’ll be riding from (just outside) Keswick, which opens up options a wee bit.

@faz71 (and anybody else) – is this the Bash extension you mentioned? Looks like a monster but an epic day out… (proper map linky)

Hmmmm almost but , very importantly, not quite.

In the SE corner, that route goes up Stake Pass, as suggested by someone above, BUT then goes down Stake into Langdale and then up Rossett Gill.

<In my personal opinion. Ymmmv etc>

The Stake descent to Langdale is shit.  Don’t get me wrong, I love rocky gnadgery tech, but it just has tooo many ditch sections with boulders just in the wrong place ( rear mech).  The bottom third/half is really nice, but ..

The ascent up Rossett is shit.

Then the bloody thing descends to Angle Tarn.  Which means you have another huge chunk up to Rsk Hause, but for little added joy.

The bit from Esk Hause is great, but I would suggest cutting across from Stake Pass summit straight to Angle Tarn rather than dropping into Langdale.

Or do what I did last weekend and carry up Grains Gill. ( Didn’t manage to the top of Esk Hause as Dave wasn’t keen.

https://strava.app.link/bP4VLxInMJb

On balance I’d probably go with the stake pass rather than Grains.

Er, could you elaborate?

Sure. This route shows the map from Stake Summit to Rsk Hause. ( Ignore the rest of it)

https://strava.app.link/4jXc2FSnMJb

This is the general idea of getting from Stake Summit to Rsk Hause without doing the Langdale bit… (Don’t take the exact route as gospel, just follow what you see on the ground)

Is that what you meant by this @faz71

the Bash with Langstraff/Angle Tarn/Sty Head/Seathwaite extension is one of the best days I’ve had on a bike.

Edit to add  that kayaker’s left ( ie your right) of Langstrath is generally regarded as better than the bridleway marked on the other side of the river. It is marked footpath on newer maps but is bridleway on old maps.

Ace, cheers (also just realised I didn’t say please, sorry!)

In that case, have a browse here – https://lakesmtb.co.uk/lake-district-routes/

I’ve done a good few of them and all have been brilliant.

Definitely go up the ‘footpath’ on Langstrath, the BW is horrible, but the FP is rideable.

And when you get to the top go from Pile o Stones to Angle Tarn via the dotted black line (kind of)  rather than the FP. The footpath doesn’t seem to actually exist on the ground. The path on the ground is closer to the black line, disappears in places but you need to avoid the temptation to drift right. You can make out most of the path on the aerial view of OS maps.

@thegeneralist that’s the one. On the OS map you climb Stake Pass then turn right at Pile of Stones and follow this path to Angle Tarn. The path is a bit vague and boggy in places but still a better option than climbing Rossett Pikes and the descent from Styhead Tarn to Stockley Bridge is superb.
A shorter option for the ride is to start/finish at Grange (start by climbing the road to Watendlath) thereby cutting out the circuit of Derwent Water.
Got me thinking I must do it again soon.

Edit – explained much better by bails and yes, the Langstraff footpath is much better.

I agree with all the feedback given so far- go up the west side of langstrath to the bridge below stake pass, and don’t drop in to Langdale unless you are a fit masochist. Direct to angle tarn, then enjoy the great riding and scenery from Esk hause to the bottom.

Cheers all, sounds good. I’ll get it plotted out tonight.

So something like this (wouldn’t be a Lakes ride if I didn’t have to wade through a bog carrying a bike really).

Cuts off a decent lump of climbing too which my legs will thank me for (especially if it wouldn’t have been great).

Map link

Nearly 🙂

If I was being picky I’d say that you would do the hairpin rather than the shortcut ( which will be too steep to ride) when you pass Seatoller on the way up Honister

Sorry, I’m a details guy 😉

But the Stake/Hause bit looks spot on

Ah good spot. Pretty sure that’s the way I’ve done it before (when doing the Bash) – it probs autosnapped when I put the route together.

I like details. They can make the difference between a good ride and a great one.

Let us know how it goes. See if you can do the Whale Rock about a mile or so after Seatoller…

I managed it but then took a nasty topple off the V groove boulder just afterwards. Very scary. That’s when I decided going up Esk Hause hadn’t been such a great idea