The city of Munich gives out a grant of 25% up to 1000€ of the end price for an e-cargo bike. Why they don’t do this for normal cargo bikes I don’t know, but hey, free money.

I want something that can carry a few tools in systainer boxes (Festool boxes). A friend has the standard Bullit (no motor) and I know that I can get two systainer boxes side by side on the load area.

The Bullit comes with a Shimano Steps motor. Is this good?

What other front loading cargo bikes should I be considering?

Cheers!

Riese and muller Packster, lots of options for the size of cargo space.

What’s the generic name for cargo bikes with a front load space?

Bakfiets? its a trade name but becoming ubiquitous like biro or hoover?

Does the grant apply if you bolt an aftermarket kit to a generic cargo bike too?

Steps is decent.

Does the grant apply if you bolt an aftermarket kit to a generic cargo bike too?

Nope…. Has to be a complete bike with specific carrying capacity. A set of panniers on a normal ebike doesn’t count.

Bakfiets seem all to be three wheelers which I don’t like. So many yummy mummies cruising about on the taking up at the space on the bike paths. Annoying.

I like the look of the Bullit. Have ridden the analogue version and it feels like a normal bike after a minute. The load space is decent, too.

Comes in at 5,125€ which will then cost me 3,151€…. (5125€ minus 19% VAT, then minus 1000€). Seems stupid not to take advantage of the deal.

If there are any other brands I should look at let me know!

The Riese & Müller Packster has a very narrow load area… The Load 75 might be interesting, but it’s pricey…!

What about a tadpole trike that leans? These look amazing but pricy:
https://www.butchersandbicycles.com

I think a fair few of the Biefiets brand are 2 wheeled or the Gazelle cabby is more budget but don’t know if the do an e version.
https://www.bakfiets.com/elektrische-bakfiets

Bit more old school in looks but the Dutch built Dolly looks good, optional lidded box fits euro crates, Nuvinci hub gear and e assist option. Funky colours if that’s your thing.

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Bakfiets seem all to be three wheelers which I don’t like

Good news – they’re not all 3-wheelers.

Babboe City-E?
Urban Arrow?

This Danish one? (only €1499.00 complete, with accessories and with 10 yr frame warranty – I had to blink a few times…)

https://amcargobikes.co.uk/product/bakfiets/

If you want something more trendy then the Cube Cargo Hybrid?

https://www.cube.eu/lt/2020/e-bikes/urban/urban/cargo-hybrid/

Plenty there to be looking at. Also (if you haven’t already) maybe add ‘long-john electric cargo bike’ to your search-terms

One of the neighbours just turned up with a friend riding a Riese und Müller Packster 60.

I had a ride around and can’t say I liked it overly much. The extendable handlebar thingy meant it creaked and knocked when breaking.

Any further forward on this op?

What about a regular ebike with a trailer?

Waiting to hear back from the city. They’ll tell me whether I’m eligible, which I should be (my neighbour bought his Riese und Müller for his dog!).

Once they say yes I buy the bike I want, show them the invoice and get a grand back from them.

There was one other bike I was looking at, a Trio, but the welds look guff and there are stories of it cracking at the top tube /seat tube.

Still thinking Bullitt with Alfine 11 speed, Shimano motor with belt drive.
Comes in at 5125€…. After vat and a grand it comes in at around 3150€.

Fingers crossed it gets approved.

An ebike with trailer doesn’t count for this scheme for some reason. Neither does an analogue cargo bike.

Worth a read OP: Festool edition! http://www.larryvsharry.com/festool-x-bullitt/

I have an E8000 Steps Bullitt. It is brilliant.

Ed has one too.

They have not missed a beat in three years.

I upgraded with honeycomb board, steering damper, abus lock, seat, Fahrer panel bags, fahrer Hood bag, and a Shimano Dynohub and lighting set.

That lot wasn’t cheap, we also have a spare battery each.

They are brilliant.

In your position I’d get a Bullit, though would avoid the alfine 11, has reliability issues

I was looking at one of the Terns, and it struck me the motors on these are in such rapid development, that by the time ive decided on make/model it could well have moved on.
I think the current bosch motor is labelled Mk3, and thats only in a few years. Batteries too, I see 500w the norm, and up at 650w on (cant remember which) Use to be 30 miles, now its a lot more.
Its a subject I’d like to know more of, but the geekiness of it. Always easier to decide when you know the geeky stuff 😆

Brant, anything you or Ed would change?
Do you find the steering damper useful?

Brant, anything you or Ed would change?
Do you find the steering damper useful?

Not a thing I can think of we’d change.
And steering damper is great when trucking it down rougher roads at speeds.

oddly, I’ve never found a lack of steering damper an issue on my cabby, even when loaded up > 200kg. Maybe its a factor of the frame\fork design (offset and head angle), overall weight or total loaded weight?

Rode an ebullit last week. Had 8 speed Shimano Hub gear.

Was excellent, easy to ride and really enjoyable as a bike.

Got one on order and fitting this kit from Germany for the kids to travel in
https://rad3.de/produkt/kidsbox-bullitt/ which is similar to what Riese & Müller come with.

Can’t wait to get it

Does the problem with the Alfine include di2?

Am toying with the idea of getting 11spd XT di2 and swapping it over into my bike and down grading the bullitt to analogue shifting.

Yay! Just got email confirmation that my application has been accepted…. 😁

Now I need to buy a bike.

What are the problems with 11 speed alfine hubs? The one I’m looking at is di2. I like the idea of changing gear when stationary.

Is a derailleur a better bet? I know my what around normal gears. However, again the bullitt comes with di2 which i would probably swap onto my bike and run the bullitt with analogue gears.

Thanks Brant, good to know.

Alpin, afaik the di2 version of alfine is regular alfine with electronics bolted on. Anecdotally the 11 is not as robust as the 8. I ran an 8 for a while. Wasn’t overly impressed tbh. Probably better in this application.
The integration with a Shimano motor means the bike auto shifts. Not sure if it does this with the xt, I can’t imagine it would, but does with the alfine, to put you in a better gear to set of with automatically when you stop. It can also auto shift in response to speed/load, and I think the xt setup is capable of this.
Congratulations on your successful application!

How much cargo capacity do you need Alpin? I know of a German-made cargo bike that has a max up capacity of 400kg, but that comes in at about 6.5k Euro.

Livelo (from round these parts up north) does a good electrically assisted front loader. Not sure on their prices or availability down your way though.

Cheers Del….

Spoke to one shop on the other side of town on the weekend that deals with bullitt bikes. He just sold his last one and not getting any in until October!

There’s another place in town but they’re closed on Monday.

Interesting with the auto shifting.

Primarily need to transport tools. Have my tool chest and a few festool/systainer boxes. Ideal when fitting kitchens or similar in town. I’ve also got a Bob trailer I can hook up for extra load carrying.

Envisage it also bring used for the weekly shop (due to the whole mask thing we tend to do one big shop every week or so rather than buying bits every other day), carrying the bbq to the river, longer trips and we were even talking about touring with it.

It’s the future!

OK…. I was at the shop….

They have a few bikes boxed up that I could be riding by Monday.

Red or baby blue with E600 motor and XT or black or orange with E800 motor.
I could go for something else but delivery would be in two months at least…!

E800 motor only comes with XT, no Alfine. Its got too much torque for the 11spd Alfine to handle, and supposedly according to the lads in the shop the E600 motor is about on the limit of what the Alfine can take. XT has the advantage that I can fettle myself if need be and /or change ratios.

The E800 also comes standard with Zee brakes rather than the plasticy Magura MT5 with the stupidly long levers.

So the biggest question is Black or Orange? Understated or not?

I think if you’re happy playing with keeping a rear mech in shape, that’s the way to go. Hub gears are better if you want to leave something outside in all conditions, and ride it knowing it will almost certainly work. The gearing range is fairly limited (11 speed is wider) and they are draggier than a mech setup – but the motor can probably negate both of those downsides. You can change overall ratios on a hub gear setup, just swap the cog at the front or back.

I’ve my current “cargo bike” (old mtb with trailer) hi has been sat outside for years and neglected, yet the 10 speed XT works just fine.

I’m ordering a cover for it so that shouldn’t matter too much but then again I can ask one of the neighbours with an underground space if I can stick it there.

Plus the XT on the bullitt is di2 so no cables to faff with.

XT, with the more powerful motor, for sure!
I’m jealous 😒😆

Have a look at https://www.douze-cycles.com/en/gamme-2020/ the V2 version split in the middle

Thought they were nicer to ride than a Bullit, especially at lower speeds though i have only ridden non assist version of both.

I think if you’re happy playing with keeping a rear mech in shape, that’s the way to go

On a Cargo bike the essential feature of hub gear is being able to change gear without pedalling. They’re a lot more difficult to get moving, especially on a hill and in an urban environment you *will* end up stopping in the wrong gear at some inopportune moment.

We run an 8s Alfine on our cargo bike and there is no way I’d want to be using derailleurs unless it was in conjunction with an IGH like on the 3sp+Cassette Sturmey hubs.

Shimano do now have a e-bike specific 5 speed Nexus IGH – NEXUS Inter-5E – it shifts under load and has quite a wide range.

On loading – you can get two euro crates (the ones they have in supermarkets) side by side in the R&M Packster 80 and they stack 3 high. Just done over a thousand miles in hilly Todmorden doing lockdown deliveries. Can’t fault it.

The guys in the shop said that if you know how to ride a bike you don’t need hub gears. You know to shift before the lights or when you get to hill.

I had a ride with the Packster and didn’t like the flex in the steerer tube.

Besides, it was a toss up between 600 red blue or 800 orange and black as that is what he had in the shop… All work XT… Any other colour or with alfine it would be a long wait.

Have gone for the black. 800 motor which only comes with XT, but also Zee brakes which I preferred over the Magura, one finger braking as opposed to four finger lever on the Maguras. The orange doesn’t pop in sunlight as much as it appeared in the shop. Plus the black is a little more subtle. Will cut a bill board thing from 6mm wood and laser my logo into it. Gonna look sick!

Pics or it doesn’t happen!

Should be ready for Saturday, but I told them there is a crate of Augustiner in it for them if they can do it by Friday…. 😁

I’m proper excited…. Have got a Ribble Ti CGR coming next week that I had almost forgotten about. I’m more excited for the cargo bike..!

Yeah under normal circumstances you plan for it and shift accordingly.

But no matter how long you’ve been riding, no matter how awesome you are you will stall it or have to do a rapid/emergency stop at some point and find yourself stuck in a stupid gear.

And once you realise you *can* change gear while stopped you’ll start to use that feature loads.

Sure you can get by without that ability but I’m just offering my experience as some who uses one everyday, and I’ve been riding bikes for 30 odd years, I’m not surf mat levels of awesome but I’m not an inexperienced numpty either 😉

Sorry, amedias…. That came across wrong on my part. Didn’t mean for you to feel singled out /attacked….

I was initially keen on the Alfine, but the lads said it suffered when under load and, besides, the Bullitts that he had available were all with XT.

Come on! Update! 🙂