E-bike explosion

Ebikes, turns out the E stands for “explosive”.

“ I don’t know the chemistry that leads to “some gases given off are heavier than air,” “

It’s explained in the YT vid attached above. Fire personnel were approaching the batteries, thinking it was smoke, it wasnt, it was an explosive gas which is heavier than air, there are also gases given off that are lighter than air. Its all explained in the video.
For home use, lead acid are still used in many installs, these give off hydrogen which is very explosive, if in an attic without the correct ventilation, it could accumulate and cause an explosion.

For home use, lead acid are still used in many installs, these give off hydrogen which is very explosive, if in an attic without the correct ventilation, it could accumulate and cause an explosion.

So the correct approach is a blanket ban ?

“For home use, lead acid are still used in many installs, these give off hydrogen which is very explosive, if in an attic without the correct ventilation, it could accumulate and cause an explosion.”

“So the correct approach is a blanket ban ?”

Thats the comment that was brought up on the IET (writers of electrical regulations) forum yesterday. Yes, without various precautions, they are saying no batteries inside, and your PV panels can be so dangerous that you really dont want their connections in the house. One Rep from the IET has replied, a number of times, after peole have commented that the new guidelines are rather too strict, that ‘well, you had the chance to comment when we published the first draft, so we could have changed it if it was brought to our attention’. Thats a shite answer, and one that has roundly been condemned, if the people who wrote it had used a sound evidence base, then we could go along with it, but they havent, and someone pointed out yesterday that he cannot have his PV batteries now in his attached garage , but can sit his electric car in the same space, with a far larger battery, and charge that up overnight without going against any guideline.
My views are that, yes, there are some terrible installs with PV and batteries, this has come about due to past Government grants, lack of correctly trained staff, and the greed of Companies jumping on the bandwagon to get the grants. There is little regulation, so they continue to fit shoddy installations. A well designed PV/Battery system should have no safety problems, though after watching the video linked earlier in this thread, I’d be siting my batteries outside the fabric of the house, in fact I think that will be the way forward anyway, Tesla now supply batteries that are fixed to the outside wall, they measure around 1m x 1m x 100mm, and dont look too out of place.

Tesla now supply batteries that are fixed to the outside wall, they measure around 1m x 1m x 100mm, and dont look too out of place

Tesla always have and frankly their batteries should always be outside. Theirs are prime bad chemistry for in house siting.

Charging batteries give off hydrogen gas, which is lighter than air.

Edit:- a simple fan that vents to the outside is enough to mitigate this.

Charging batteries give off hydrogen gas, which is lighter than air.

Edit:- a simple fan that vents to the outside is enough to mitigate this.

The 90’s called they want their lead acid batteries back.

If your nmc or life4po (common workable solar battery systems)are emitting hydrogen don’t hang around.

Looks like they had a lucky escape, seven bikes in one room according to local radio of which four were on charge

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-68918862

There is a proper dodgy home brew ‘thing’ in our cycle parking at work, and my employers won’t do anything about it – they know who uses it, but have a ban on all scooters, but not illegal fully powered bikes. If it goes up, it will take the multi-storey car park with it – we had a diesel go on fire about 18 months ago, and part of the car park is still un-useable

seven bikes in one room according to local radio of which four were on charge

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-68918862

Theres going to be some serious delays to Just Eat deliveries in that part of Sheffield.

At least the roads….pavements…lanes are going to be a bit safer now.

There’s been a major, fatal, fire at a battery plant in South Korea – https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crgggmeyjj7o as a result of exploding cells.

They seem to be, potentially, pretty volatile bits of kit.

The BBC did a series of documentaries looking at hidden dangers in homes at various times in history (such a deaths from some crazy electrical installations when it was a an exciting and emerging technology). I wonder whether, in a 100 years or so, there’ll be a similar documentary looking at the 2020s and deaths from exploding batteries (and probably selfie deaths too).

The BBC have some pretty frightening footage of the fire starting.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-69147964

There is a proper dodgy home brew ‘thing’ in our cycle parking at work, and my employers won’t do anything about it

Someone on here – sorry, forgot who – keeps recommending home-brew conversions, ‘I’ve had mine for 50 years and it’s never blown up etc’. My question for the panel is: are there any standards at all for aftermarket conversion kits?

I get that there are ‘reputable’ battery and conversion sellers out there, but are they subject to any actual, enforceable, regulation or is it as much of a jungle as it appears to be? I’m not overly convinced by ‘my conversion has never blown up, therefore they’re okay’ anecdotal stuff, no offence etc.

“I get that there are ‘reputable’ battery and conversion sellers out there, but are they subject to any actual, enforceable, regulation or is it as much of a jungle as it appears to be? I’m not overly convinced by ‘my conversion has never blown up, therefore they’re okay’ anecdotal stuff, no offence etc. “

It’s a minefield! Stick with well known makes, and reputable sellers,and your battery should be OK. Buy from Temu/Aliexpress (I think ebay and Amazon can be added to that) and all bets are off. They’ll be imported from China for £10, and sold to you for £100, with no guarantee, apart from ‘these are really good’. It’s the batteries AND chargers that cause the trouble. You could have a good battery, lots of R+D and testing to ensure it’s safe, then connect up a £10 charger, which doesnt have any of the current control and sensing during charging, so it just chucks loads of pwoer into your good quality battery, which needs to be trickle charged with a small amount of electric over a longer time, so both the battery and the charger will overheat, eventually the battery cannot keep up in chucking the power into its cells, so overheats and splits, causing a lithium fire. Its the same with a good charger and a cheap battery, the charger senses what needs to be put in, but the contacts internally are too small to take that amount, so overheat, then bang. This was happening 15-20 years with the first bike lights with separate li-ion batteries, people on here were charging them up with the batteries in a tin while charging. The problem has upscaled now, with drive batteries 20x bigger compared to a light battery.

alanl speaks the truth. I can remember an ebay charger exploding in my kitchen, fortunately little damage was caused. I was charging some repurposed cells from an old laptop. There was copper spattered around the room.

it’s a minefield! Stick with well known makes, and reputable sellers,and your battery should be OK.

which would these be or are you having to stick to buying whole bikes?

It does surprise me that rail companies are still letting obvious lash-up ebikes onto trains given the publicity this issue is getting, and the fact they’ve already banned e-scooters for precisely this reason.

which would these be or are you having to stick to buying whole bikes?

Yes, that’s basically my concern. How do you distinguish between someone selling cheap batteries and chargers behind the front of a slick-ish website and a genuinely reliable supplier? In the absence of meaningful regulation, it’s pretty much impossible to tell.

What’s to stop me from buying a load of cheapo batteries and chargers, badging them up as ‘BWD Inc. Charging Solution’ kit and selling them off at a substantial profit bar the small shred of human decency and concern from others that lurks deep within my dark soul?

montgomeryFree Member
It does surprise me that rail companies are still letting obvious lash-up ebikes onto trains given the publicity this issue is getting, and the fact they’ve already banned e-scooters for precisely this reason.

Your average conductor isn’t going to know/care what a good ebike is versus a burny one – it’d end up being a blanket ban just like the scooters

I’ve still got a few older ‘lights’ that use li-po packs, but I use the packs with removeable batteries (i.e. you supply your own). I also use a smart charger that charges each cell and gives you a read out. My Fenix light takes two li-po’s and I charge once a week.

Thing is, with these batteries, it takes just a small short circuit to cause issues as they pack a punch. I remember pulling a cheap pack apart some years ago as a cell had gone bad (the pack wouldn’t charge) – let’s say it didn’t take much to get one of the cells to start smoking as I cut the connections.

I’ve had a few cheap packs go bad, and it’s usually one cell that goes. This can be checked in a smart charger once the pack is disassembled. The good cells would be used in torches.

Multiply this by 40 or 50 cells in a big pack, especially cheap ones, and you get multiple dead cells that eventually will go pop. That’s the issue. Once one goes bang, the lot soon follow

“which would these be or are you having to stick to buying whole bikes?”

If I was in the market for a decent conversion, I’d start by looking at somewhere like the link below. I wouldnt start on ebay, find one at £50, then google to get it at £30 from Aliexpress.
Buying whole bikes is probably the best solution. However, cost will be an issue for most people, but it is a better, integrated solution, that should be guaranteed, especially by the well known Brands, the product should work well from getting it out of the box, and give a good few years life. Buying the components separately, or as a kit could work out, but it would never be as good as a purpose built e-bike.
It’s all compromises. Cannot afford a £2000 new e-bike, but can afford a £500 conversion, then go for the conversion, it’ll work, hopefully, and if bought from a reputable Seller, should be guaranteed, and, be safe. Pay £200 for the same thing, and your guarantee will be minimal, and I doubt there has been any type approval testing, so safety is not a priority. It’s those type of batteries/chargers that cause the fires, mostly.
https://ebiketips.road.cc/content/advice/buyers-guide/best-e-bike-conversion-kits

Your average conductor isn’t going to know/care what a good ebike is versus a burny one – it’d end up being a blanket ban just like the scooters

That’s what bothers me, as someone who uses trains to facilitate bike packing trips (and cycle commuting). In the not too distant future I anticipate having to open up frame bags to demonstrate there are no batteries inside…

Thing is, it’s easy to ban scooters, because they are all illegal, apart from hire scheme ones and they shouldn’t be going on trains. Bikes are a different matter because of the mix of legal and illegal ones.

let’s say it didn’t take much to get one of the cells to start smoking as I cut the connections.

Had a guy at one of our RC meets who welded his battery to ESC connector together (running a 4S pack in 8th scale).

His solution was to get a large pair of side cutters and go straight through both power cables leading from connector to battery. The flash was enough to weld the side cutters to the pair of cables, thankfully not to the car as well, so he had a handy handle to use to get the flaming battery pack into the sand box.