And a genuinely hypothetical question – none of this my ‘mate’ got caught etc but wanted to check the consensus view on the following scenario.

My understand of drink drive laws is, if you are with your vehicle with the keys, whether or not you are actually driving it, you can be charged with drink driving.

This being the case, what would the position be if you’re round a friends house and went to your car to fetch something in and the rozzas showed up?

Reason I ask is recently I was round a mates house for a BBQ and was considerably worse for wear but needed my bag from the car as it had medical supplies in that I needed to have with me.

Could I technically have been done had I been unlucky enough to get caught opening my car?

Cheers

Danny B

I always thought that it was keys in ignition, but that might have changed with advent of push button start.

trolly troll is not very good today.

the answer is no unless you managed to in a very retarded way manage to show an intent to drive while getting stuff out of the car – getting in sitting in the drivers seat sticking the key in the ignition to get radio while you look.

I have always wondered how that applies if you have just finished off a bottle of red in the back of a camper/motor home.

Similar questions have been raised when it comes to camper vans (or even just sleeping in the car). The Police would have to think you had an intent to drive before you could be prosecuted.

Actually not trolly troll.

When I worked at Aviva selling car insurance a woman phoned on behalf of her son.

He had a DD charge against him – scenario was he had been drinking at the pub and decided to sleep in his car overnight as he was over the limit.

Rozzas knocked on his car window in the morning, found he had the keys in his pocket and nabbed him.

My understanding is that if you are with at your car with your keys there is potential intent to drive and that is enough for them to nick you.

I am happy to stand corrected and it will put my mind at rest.

Cheers

Danny B

20 plus years ago a mate got done in his parents drive listening to music in car I think it was drunk and in charge or summit.(he lived at his parents)

Of course, there’s a chance that Mum didn’t get the real story

not a chance thats true falkirk mark.

sounds like he fell asleep in the front seat of his car – kinda hard to proove he didnt get there with the intent to drive.

If he had been on his sleeping mat in the back of his car sleeping in his sleeping bag – that would show he arrived at his car with zero intent to drive.

At t_r – why not. Sat in car with keys in ignition (usually required for a car stereo to work) and drunk?

Sounds plausible.

Cheers

Danny B

“At t_r – why not. Sat in car with keys in ignition (usually required for a car stereo to work) and drunk?”

Because there was a claim he was on his own drive.

much like i dont need a licence/tax or insurance to move my car on my own property.

My understanding is that if you are with at your car with your keys there is potential intent to drive and that is enough for them to nick you.
I am happy to stand corrected and it will put my mind at rest.

Police will use their judgement (for better, or worse). Which means there is no definitive answer and unfortunately this means that your minds going to be wracked with anxiety caused by the general non determinicity of life.
I’d imagine in the case of the womens son, the police decided that although he had slept in the car overnight, he probably intended to drive it in the near future and failed the breath test.

I’ve done it and taken keys back in after unlocking the car, had knock on window 6ish conversation lasted about 30 secs once they figured out I didn’t have keys on me. Was parked on road outside a garage so pretty conspicuous.

Mate went to a BBQ, had one to many so stayed on sofa to sleep it off. Woke up behind the wheel after crashing into the back of someone on dual carriageway…still can’t remember getting from sofa to car to crash…pretty scary!

I haven’t had a car for a good few years now and don’t miss it tbh.

When I worked at Aviva selling car insurance a woman phoned on behalf of her son.

He had a DD charge against him – scenario was he had been drinking at the pub and decided to sleep in his car overnight as he was over the limit.

Rozzas knocked on his car window in the morning, found he had the keys in his pocket and nabbed him.

Early 90’s, guy I worked with got done in exactly the same manner. Claims he was asleep on the back seat.

Course, how true his story was, I’ve no way of knowing for sure.

You don’t actually have to be in the car, apparently. Guy at work went to a retirement night recently, with the intention of getting a lift back into town to get his car the following day. Got drunk and couldn’t flag down a taxi, as it was a busy Saturday night. Feels his car keys in his pocket and makes the stupid decision to drive home. Someone spotted him standing pressing his key fob trying to open his door, swaying about and called the police.

He couldn’t work out how his doors wouldn’t open, turned out it was because he was standing at a ford focus, whereas his car is a vauxhall zafira, and it was across the road!. Cops turned up and breathalysed him, over the limit, took him to the station, where he refused the second test. 1 years ban and 1000 quid fine.

There are no hard and fast rules, if the cops think you intend to drive, it’s your drunken word against theirs.

20 plus years ago a mate got done in his parents drive listening to music in car I think it was drunk and in charge or summit.(he lived at his parents)

BS – parents drive surely isnt public road therefore drink driving laws do not apply. Unless of course they just followed him driving into the drive.

Would then not a pub car park be classed as private land also? Where is the line drawn so to speak?

Cheers

Danny B

A school teacher from Wetherby, West Yorks, was charged after returning to his car to collect school books. If I could be bothered I’d Google it 🙂

OK, another situation, and I have actually done this too:

I used to own a VW camper. A few of us went to King of Concrete at Southsea skate park, then out on the lash. I slept in my camper at the side of the road in Southsea. Nice comfy bed, lovely. I had no intention at all of driving and actually hid the keys in the engine bay so I could be sure any cops wouldn’t find them if they thought I was going to drive.

Where do you stand on that?

the line is drawn when that space becomes public.

supermarket carparks , pub carparks , park car parks , trail center carparks …. once open to the general public the rules of the road apply even if they are not roads.

Mate worked at a pub in Chichester when we were at college there, usually day shift. He quit after working his one and only saturday night shift when the landlord asked him to ‘help’ one of the regulars to his car at the end of a heavy night. Reported it but was his word against landlord plus pub full of understandably loyal regulars, was put down to sour grapes after a sacking IIRC.

Its illegal to be in drunk in charge

its a defence against the charge to show that you had no intention of driving while impaired.

eg. you were asleep in the back in a sleeping bag planning to be there all night, or that you had just nipped out to the car get your jacket.

You don’t actually have to be in the car, apparently. Guy at work went to a retirement night recently, with the intention of getting a lift back into town to get his car the following day. Got drunk and couldn’t flag down a taxi, as it was a busy Saturday night. Feels his car keys in his pocket and makes the stupid decision to drive home. Someone spotted him standing pressing his key fob trying to open his door, swaying about and called the police.

He couldn’t work out how his doors wouldn’t open, turned out it was because he was standing at a ford focus, whereas his car is a vauxhall zafira, and it was across the road!. Cops turned up and breathalysed him, over the limit, took him to the station, where he refused the second test. 1 years ban and 1000 quid fine.

There are no hard and fast rules, if the cops think you intend to drive, it’s your drunken word against theirs.

That’s what he got his fine and ban for then. If you are being investigated for a possible drink drive offence and you refuse the station procedure the ins and outs of what happened earlier are irrelevant, that refusal is an offence in itself that’ll get you a years ban.

http://www.drinkdrivinglaw.co.uk/offences/in_charge_of_a_vehicle_with_excess_alcohol.htm

It’s pretty simple really.

Clear.As.Mud.

Back to the OP – in your scenario would it be easiest to get a sober, maybe non-driving friend to work the keys. That way you demonstrate no intention etc.

Clear.As.Mud.

Really? I thought it was very simple.

Where to start….

There is no legal definition for the term “in charge” so each case will depend on its exact circumstances and facts. Generally, a Defendant is “in charge” if he was the owner/in possession of the vehicle or had recently driven it. He is not in charge if it is being driven by another person or is “a great distance” from the vehicle.

Matters are more complicated where a person is sitting in the vehicle or “otherwise involved with it”. In charge can include attempting to gain entry to the vehicle and failing, having keys to the vehicle, having intention to take control of the vehicle or even “being near the vehicle”.

Yes I did read it.

Although that link does suggest you can be done for DIC on your own driveway, which is news to me!

the answer is no unless you managed to in a very retarded way manage to show an intent to drive while getting stuff out of the car

This is not true.
My mate was done when he opened the back door of the car keys in hand.
Cops filmed it. Licence lost. I’ve seen the film, he saunters up tot he car, v pissed, blips it, opens reaer doo, he claims he was going to get in to go to sleep.

I suppose in my scenario the easiest thing to do is not forget my bag of bits but having said that I would be more than happy to empty the contents (ilestomy bags (like colostomy bags but attach to a slightly different bit of the digestive tract), seals, wipes, disposal bags etc) to prove that I did actually need the bag with me.

Gets you thinking though, how many times have you nipped to the car to get something when you have been over the limit?

Cheers

Danny B

I like the ‘being near the vehicle’ line as well. Walk out of pub, wait for taxi, stood next to car in car park – nicked – b**ger!

Cheers

Danny B

What about cars where you just need the fob in your pocket to start the car?

One of my mates tried to get back into my flat after a night out, failed (after waking the entire stair, but not residents of my flat!) Cops arrived after neighbour across the stair phoned them. They asked John what was up, he told them (pissed), they suggested he just sleep in the car. He objected, suggesting they’d just nick him, but basically he got told just to get in the car and stay out the way.

No reason to doubt the story is substantially true, but if they knew a bit more history about him then I suspect they wouldn’t have been so trusting as to his judgement ::)

Two key points to consider. Intention to drive and location, must be road/highway public place. Sat in a car on the drive is on private property

The link posted by Drac seems to suggest that being on a driveway is no defence:

What if I was in my car on my driveway having a cigarette trying to keep warm and I had no intention of driving?

There is no need for the prosecution to prove that a person was likely to drive whilst unfit or over the limit. It is for the Defendant to prove that there is no prospect of using the vehicle.

I suppose if the police feel there was intention to drive they want to prevent you moving off your drive on to a public highway.

Cheers

Danny B

OK, another situation, and I have actually done this too:
I used to own a VW camper. A few of us went to King of Concrete at Southsea skate park, then out on the lash. I slept in my camper at the side of the road in Southsea. Nice comfy bed, lovely. I had no intention at all of driving and actually hid the keys in the engine bay so I could be sure any cops wouldn’t find them if they thought I was going to drive.
Where do you stand on that?

Ahhh no problem there. I was with you, I could have said I was driving. 😀

In reality under those circumstances only the courts will decide. I believe the Scottish and English courts have historically interpreted the same law differently. If you were concerned then with remote central locking you could unlock car from house and leave keys inside then get stuff return to house and lock the car + avoid sitting in the drivers seat and you would probably be ok to anyone with common sense.