What’s your opinion of dentistry in the UK? Does it need urgent reform?

An impending visit has got me thinking.

My last attendance was three years ago for a Lava crown – the cost of the whole treatment was sufficiently extortionate to put me off going again in a hurry. My mother was recently fleeced for bridge work when she was unknowingly eligible for NHS treatment. Another experience involving my (at the time 95 year old) grandmother revealed the dentist for her care-home to have the professionalism and qualms of a Georgian charlatan.

It appears that some dentists are misleading their patients about their right to NHS treatment so they will pay for private treatment. The OFT found that about 500,000 (yes that’s right, 500,000) people a year were given the wrong information about their treatment options.

Surely patients need to know that the can receive a whole range of treatment on the NHS, and that they know what those prices are? There is a requirement on those that have an NHS contract to provide that information to their patients. Root canal work on the NHS is around £45 compared to £350 upwards for private treatment.

What I’d also like to see is the removal of the restriction on patients visiting dental care professionals such as hygienists without first having to go to a dentist.

Given the current limits on people’s finances, is now a good time to scrutinise whether competition is working effectively to drive up the quality of private and NHS dental services and deliver better value for money for costumers?

Are some of our dentists in the UK unethical, unscrupulous money grabbing shysters who need bringing into line?

I’m happy with the way I pay for my nhs dental treatment, and the treatment I receive. Capped at £200ish, checkup £15ish, fillings from £45ish. Children, oaps and benefits claimants exempt. Seems about right to me.

That’s fine if you’re aware of the entitlement.

You can say that about many things. At some point people have to take responsibility for finding these things out.

If they are receiving intentionally misleading advice then that’s a different matter and even potentially fraud.

At some point people have to take responsibility for finding these things out.

Yeah, if you’ve got the gumption to do that – that doesn’t help the elderly, vulnerable groups or the less intellectually sophisticated amongst us in society. As I said, or rather the OFT stated, 1/2 million have been mislead.

NHS and dentists??

No expert on this, but when I’ve moved I never found a dentist in my area which was taking on ‘NHS’ patients so been forced to go ‘private’. The places I current use claims to deduct the NHS price from their private fees which sounds a con too. Was about £150 for a white filling and associated checkups a few years back, felt I was being fleeced at the time but just wanted it sorted rather than shop around for a cheaper dentist.

Should be clearer guidelines imo (for us intellectually challenged…:)) Maybe a fact sheet when you signup?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-18548328

Makes jimmy Carr look like a comediane

DT78 – exactly.

Greater transparency and mechanisms to prevent mis or no information about rights.

Project – I can’t imagine that example is the only one at it to that extent either.

Every dental practice whcih has a contract to supply services to NHS patients has a responsibilty to display an upto date price chart which is the same at all NHS dentists, £17.50 ish for check up and minor stuf about £48 for mid range treatments and about £200 for more major treatments which may take a couple of visits.
Some dentists are NHS only some do a mix of private and NHS and some are fully private. Whatever your dentist is, you should have transparent costs.
As a supplier to thousands of dentists across the UK I can say quite happily that the great majority are decent folk who are passionate about their work and the care of their patients. A number are quite up themselves and have a very high opinion of their worth.
Last April the Care Quality Commision started inspections of practices (of all kinds not just NHS) if your not sure your dentist is doing the right things have a look on the website to see if the practice has been recently inspected and see what the CQC thought. I think you can send feedback to them via the site.

800 squids herein jersey for a root canel without the crown ! no nhs

I paid £115 for a crown last week. This was my 3rd as my mouth was a disgrace after leaving the uk.
I now go to Hungary to get my teeth fixed.
I’m really pleased with the quality of this dentist.
The only thing you need to be sure of is that someone recommends you a decent dentist there as there are quite a few cowboys.

Until recently i would have said yes as despite having 4 dentists locally taking on nhs work i was checked up and quoted 400 for 4 white fillings and previously had had pain and expense pretty much every visit. My latest dentist is genuinely flawless. 4 fillings 2 white, 2 black, and a root canal for less than half the other quote and all done within 3 weeks from signing up. Not a hint of pain even on th deep root canal, all the right dental dams its used and gave me full description of th problem, what all the choices were for treatment, which filling materials worked better in which scenario and what the latest research and techniques were for my options.

Genuinely feel like I’ve struck gold. I now love going to the dentist and have no problems handing over cash.

1. What can be done is to push the price down for private dental treatment so that there are more people willing to pay rather than simply jumping on NHS treatment. i.e. price difference should not be more than say 20% to 30% by comparison to NHS treatment. More than that can be a rip off …

2. To push the price down the “market” should be opened to all dentists because at the moment it’s controlled by a group of people in the dental association that set the rules on who can/cannot practice … according to my dentist friend this group of people really prevent many from practising because they fear that the price would be push down in the private practice if the market is opened. A bit like a closed shop.

3. For some profit minded unethical practitioners there is a tendency to maximise profit by using cheaper quality material for making crowns/dentures/fillings etc … so there should be a stringent law in place to deal with this cowboys. In certain part of the world, cowboy dentists have already started using low quality or even dangerous materials for making crowns/dentures/fillings etc.

Therefore, if you want to have “cheaper” but quality dental care the market got to be opened to more practitioners and not control by a bunch of profit minded, selfish, self serving, money grabbing, greedy tossers … But before the market is opened a very strict stringent rules should be created to ensure quality of work done to get rid of the cowboys.

I had a very bad experience nearly two years ago when I was in a toothache agony … it resulted in the tooth being extracted because it was too late to save it. I had to get it extracted because my then dentist was pussy footing with my toothache. She was going to charge me nearly £2k to get a root treatment and crown. To me it was rather expensive because I thought she could deal with root treatment immediately but she wasn’t going to do that but to refer me to another dentist. Also she wanted me to go private by started to talk porkies to me … my bet was she knew I was in pain. I searched around my locality for dentist willing to deal with my case but all just came up with some stupid excuses … in the end the pain was too unbearable I went to a local dentist in a different town to get it extracted … going private.

🙂

What’s your opinion of dentistry in the UK?

Not a good as “Anarchy…”

Have been trying for months to find a dentist near me accepting new NHS patients. Have given up and paid for a private checkup last week.

What’s your opinion of dentistry in the UK?

1. A closed shop – see my post above.

2. Control by bureaucratic pen pushers – the policy of NHS dental treatment eligibility and those dentists that abuse it.

3. Holding patients to ransom.

The system is a mess and needs opening up …

My dad was a dentist. He was also on the Family Practitioner committee. He was responsible for getting a fellow dentist disqualified in the 70s (as you can imagine dinner party invites dried up for a while). He didn’t manage to get anything done about a useless consultant (alcoholic) but kept his patients away. In the 70s consultants were gods.

Sadly the man he sold his practice to was a crook and was disqualified a couple of years later.

There have been good and bad dentists for at least the last 40 years. Complain officially about the bad ones and get them disqualified.

1. A closed shop – see my post above.

not sure about this, my area has seen a lot of polish dentists in the last few years, so many i actually now have an nhs dentist and only spent c£50 to have a wisdom tooth removed this week. Although i could have done what the SO did ask to have the treatment in hospital and get it for free…

chewkw, you should have rung the NHS direct, there should be an emergency service so even if you don’t have a dentist you can access treatment. I did this for a previous wisdom tooth when it became infected and needed to be sorted.

mrmo – Member

chewkw, you should have rung the NHS direct, there should be an emergency service so even if you don’t have a dentist you can access treatment. I did this for a previous wisdom tooth when it became infected and needed to be sorted.

I did go to the NHS dental hospital for emergency treatment and was dealt with by a final year student. The problem was not sorted because they did not give me root treatment but rather tried to “clean out” the decay whatever as much as possible. Then they told me to go to my dentist for the rest of the work. The pain subsided a bit but after a day it started again … also NHS emergency thought I was using them for free in replacement of my dentist.

I did go to the NHS dental hospital for emergency treatment and was dealt with by a final year student. The problem was not sorted because they did not give me root treatment but rather tried to “clean out” the decay whatever as much as possible. Then they told me to go to my dentist for the rest of the work. The pain subsided a bit but after a day it started again … also NHS emergency thought I was using them for free in replacement of my dentist.

Then do the benefit claimant tantrum 🙂 daily mail, local papers, MP, kick up a fuss that your NHS area is failing to deliver their responsibilities.

I have a distrust of most dentists after having had a dreadful time with an (front tooth) implant that went wrong.
The story is too long to type out on a Sunday evening, needless to say I paid £600 to get it put right.
The surgeon who performed the implant now has an amazing surgery, it’s something out of a glossy magazine, he drives various sports cars and only employs dolly birds. He’s still pals with my ex-dentist who put me forward for the implant and told me this dentist was struck off the list. However my new dentist has evidence to suggest otherwise.

Something needs to be done.

mrmo – Member

Then do the benefit claimant tantrum daily mail, local papers, MP, kick up a fuss that your NHS area is failing to deliver their responsibilities.

But I am not a benefit scrounger so I am not gong to complaint and had to pay my way around with my hard earn money … 🙄

But I am not a benefit scrounger so I am not gong to complaint and had to pay my way around with my hard earn money …

Point is you do pay through tax, and the NHS is obliged to provide a service, a service which isn’t free, but is a lot cheaper than going private. If complaints force your health authority to do something about providing low cost care and then private sector gets the rug pulled from under them, patients win.

As you said no competition and they are free to hike prices, Use what options you have to drive the price down. Fair means or foul, its how the market works…..

I was very familiar with the dental industry a few years back and may I just say, if you are going to bash dentists (and yes, there are some who do it for the money), just have a think about how their fees translate to an hourly rate. From that hourly rate, they have staff to pay – dental nurses, hygienists, receptionists, associate dentists – they also have to equip their practice, chairs, x-ray machines… They are also required to maintain knowledge of new techniques and commit all their staff to ongoing professional training…You get the idea?….

Now, as an example of a fellow professional, how much does your solicitor charge as an hourly rate? How many staff? How much equipment? How much time in professional development and peer review?

There are always unscrupulous people in all walks of life, so there will more than likely be some dentists who overcharge. Only the NHS fee rates are regulated AFAIK.

On the whole, most dentists are having to transfer their patients to Private Fee Per Item because the NHS fee rates are woefully lower than their required hourly rate. Therefore, for an NHS dentist to make their business work, they have to see more patients in the time available. Your NHS check-up is a quick 3 minute glance and if you do require some treatment, there’s a waiting list because more patients = less time. Additionally, more treatment = more money, so not much time to spend on a filling and better keep the low-cost materials handy because the fee rate doesn’t warrant offering the better quality materials.

Fee per item dentistry for both Private and NHS is fundamentally wrong because providing more treatment gets financially rewarded.

The best option is to go on a ‘capitation’ scheme – which is not insurance per se. Two providers I know of are Denplan and BUPA. These focus on prevention and are typically paid for with a monthly DDI. The amount will vary from one practice to another and is based upon the amount of time the dentist feels they will need to help you care for your oral hygiene. It used to be that the average patient would need about an hour per year with both dentist and hygienist and therefore you pay a twelfth of their hourly rate each month. I would estimate that is circa £25/£30 per month nowadays, but each practice set their own rates according to their business costs.

Because each patient is paying for time, an optimum number of patients can be established to enable the dentist to provide care and is usually 33% of their NHS patient base.

I wont go on, there’s much more to it. Talk to your dentist and ask if they run a prevention scheme.

The whole ethos of the NHS system is treatment orientated. That’s how it is measured and accounted for. It’s a no more than a sticking plaster. I have every admiration and respect for those who are health care professionals working in the NHS, I just often feel that the system has to be changed and funded differently towards a more prevention bias – especially in primary care like GP’s and dentists.

Problem with criticising a dentist is that unless you have the expertise/knowledge, it is very difficult to know if they are any good …. or for that matter incompetent or less than honest.

I have been with my private only dentist for over 10 years and up until 2 years ago (I’ve had 3 crowns since then) I had absolutely no doubts about his ability. I’m now almost certain I had 3 lots of root canal work on the same tooth before it was crowned and still get pain 6 months later and I now get the distinct impression that he ‘may’ be working to the £750 annual limit on my private dental insurance cover.

Annoying thing is that I have no way of knowing if he is good, bad, or incompetent and to try elsewhere, from previous experience, is asking for even more trouble. When I last moved house to a different area, I went for a check-up with 3 different dentists in order to decide which I preferred and they varied from only needing a scale and polish to 5 fillings!

Maybe the dentists on here would care to explain if there really is that much ‘professional latitude’ regarding treatment?

Are some of our dentists in the UK unethical, unscrupulous money grabbing shysters who need bringing into line?

Many people are unethical, unscrupulous money grabbing shysters

Some of them are dentists

Maybe the dentists on here would care to explain if there really is that much ‘professional latitude’ regarding treatment?

This.

I’ve not been to a dentist for something like 7 years now. Last time I went for a check up (just to placate my worried mother…) I ended up with two fillings and a hefty bill. I’d never felt any discomfort in either of the filled teeth, and despite changing little about my toothcare regime since have yet to suffer any problems with other teeth.

Just seems a bit skewed that we have work done on the word of the people with a vested financial interest in doing the work. Are the ‘NHS’ dentists actually NHS or just private dentists who then bill the NHS for work done?

Have been trying for months to find a dentist near me accepting new NHS patients. Have given up and paid for a private checkup last week.

My wife has been able to register with two NHS dentists in the past 6 months (switched to one nearer home).

She’s not even British. Only lived here for less than 2 years.

Damn foreigners. Coming to our country. Filling up our NHS dentist registers.

How about put some flouride in the water, or stop feeding your kids sweeties, then you won’t need so much dentistry ?

When I came to live in UK I was horrified at the state of most folks teeth, all brown and curly and they mostly didn’t seem to notice or care, which I put down to NHS dentistry and have gone private ever since. Not looking like a street person or junkie when I smile is something I am quite happy to pay for.

whole thing is a con.people have no other choice when it come to teeth, they just set the price and we have to pay.
the nhs doctor service and the nhs dental service are worlds apart and that should not be the case.
i needed a chip on a filling repairing.the repair orginally cost £500 and is a nice job. some young girl said it ALL had to go and the tooth needed a crown (just for a small chip remeber)this would be nearly £200 quid on the nhs but (suprise) she strongly recommened i pay more for a gold crown as it would be far superior. i said “ill think about it” went to anothe rlocal dentist and paid £45 privatly for them to do a compasite paste repair.they did say they couldnt guarentee it would last a long time. That was four years ago and its still going stong.

bloody crook the lot of them and there should be a massive goverment reform. The wa they all swop to being fully private 5 mins after they qualify is a joke too.

How about put some flouride in the water, or stop feeding your kids sweeties, then you won’t need so much dentistry ?

I’m not even complaining about work which NEEDS done (not much, or any in my case). Its the fact that the people we are told to trust in the matter are financially motivated to recommend more work rather than less.

‘Tiny harmless cavity sir? Better drill the whole lot out and wang in some expensive filling material. £150 please.’

If it wasn’t for visiting a dentist a few years ago I’m pretty sure I’d have no fillings and no need for them 😕