Legacy: embedded into the english language a new definition of the word “fair” which means exactly the opposite of fair.

Yep overall apart from jambylove his legacy is possibly the worst PM so far,
divided destroyed nation. No amount of PR spin can cover up for it.

How are you measuring that Jambaliar?

Just curious as to why you’d think I’d even bother to reply ?

As I eluded to earlier Cameron’s greatest legacy will probably turn out to be 15-20 years of Conservative Government, dislodging Labour in 2010 after 13 years, winning in 20215 and sending the political opposition into oblivion such that wins in 2020 look nailed on and even 2025.

Anyway questions of legacy are a bit who cares really, as he said at his fibal PMQ’s “I was the future once”

at the time he also said he’d ‘continue to watch PMQs from the back benches’

which turned out to be a lie…..

heir to Blair and all that

As I alluded to earlier Cameron’s greatest legacy will probably turn out to be 15-20 years of Conservative Government, dislodging Labour in 2010 after 13 years, winning in 20215 and sending the political opposition into oblivion such that wins in 2020 look nailed on and even 2025.

depends on how long it takes Brexit to start hurtng the electorate and how badly davies/johnson/fox screw up

his legacy is possibly the worst PM so far

Toned down the hair dye by the look of the news.

Corbyn far more dignified that many.

Greenest government ever.

Oh.

Hang on a mo.

**** Genius.
Davidtaylforth has nothing on you 😆

The suggestions of worst PM ever based upon legacy and what he will be remembered for are interesting. Because I can think of another PM who is remembered for one particular negative bit of foreign policy – and there is an interesting parallel in that he left office shortly before Britain left Europe 😉

I’m no fan of the Tories, but I reckon Cameron has outsmarted a lot of other politicians. When he couldn’t win, he ducked the bullet.

Bailing out is an example.

Who knows, he may be back.

epicyclo – Member

I’m no fan of the Tories, but I reckon Cameron has outsmarted a lot of other politicians. When he couldn’t win, he ducked the bullet. Bailing out is an example

It’s important to bear in mind that being a good politician doesn’t make you a good PM.

And as for dodging the brexit bullet… he fired it, then jumped out of the way to let it hit someone else- or rather everyone else. There’s nothing commendable in that.

Cameron’s greatest legacy will probably turn out to be 15-20 years

No, it will be brexit of course. It would have been the first Tory PM in 20 years to return a majority govt. But then less than a year and a half later he’s resigned. This is his legacy

Legacy? He made such a massive error that no-one really has any idea how to fix it, that’s how badly he messed up. He’s screwed up the UK for a generation, maybe more.

That’s some legacy.

Legacy? He made such a massive error that no-one really has any idea how to fix it, that’s how badly he messed up. He’s screwed up the UK for a generation, maybe more.

Still having problems getting your head round that ‘democracy’ thing Ben?

Still having problems getting your head round that ‘democracy’ thing Ben?

Okay, I’ll rephrase:

He allowed racists, idiots and the terminally deluded to screw up the UK for a generation, maybe more.

Oh, and we live in a representative democracy, not a direct democracy. The point of a representative democracy is you vote in people you trust to make hard decisions, even if you don’t personally agree with all those decisions, you vote in people who you hope will make the best decisions for the country.

If we had direct democracy for everything, we’d pay no taxes and have the death penalty.

I reckon one legacy is that he somehow convinced the ‘markets’ that we’re a safe bet and could continue to lend us vast amounts without actually getting anywhere near to balancing the books. Austerity is just a con. Look at the numbers.

And no I’m not a Tory.

Oh, and we live in a representative democracy, not a direct democracy. The point of a representative democracy is you vote in people you trust to make hard decisions, even if you don’t personally agree with all those decisions, you vote in people who you hope will make the best decisions for the country.

Strange, I recall you being all for direct democracy on constitutional issues up until 18th September 2014 – what could possibly have led to this Damascene conversion I wonder?

Northwind – Member
It’s important to bear in mind that being a good politician doesn’t make you a good PM.

And as for dodging the brexit bullet… he fired it, then jumped out of the way to let it hit someone else- or rather everyone else. There’s nothing commendable in that.

I agree. I don’t think he was commendable in any way. What Ben said…

He allowed racists, idiots and the terminally deluded to screw up the UK for a generation, maybe more.

However he was like a man crossing a crocodile infested river by jumping from log to log. He got out with barely getting his feet wet.

His big mistake was thinking that the virulently racist MSM that he was happy to see work against Scotland’s independence would work for the UK’s interests instead of that of its foreign owners.

If there’s anything to be learned from this debacle it is that media ownership should be brought onshore and be less monolithic.

Another case, of (all) political careers ending in failure.

Hard to know how to judge him as almost impossible to define what he stood for.

But is PMship will ultimately be defined by Brexit – not for the reasons given above as those were beyond his control – but for the opportunity lost. Forget the rhetoric about reforming Europe (no really), the actual (abeit less ambitious) deal that he struck was about a good a scenario for engaging with one of the worlds largest economiz zone as was possible to get.

The fact that this has been thrown away on the basis of xenophobia and racism to be replaced by a long period of uncertainty and wasted opportunity to ultimately arrive at pretty much the same place is a mark of breathtaking folly.

The extent to which this is Dave’s fault is open to debate.

Legacy? He made such a massive error that no-one really has any idea how to fix it, that’s how badly he messed up. He’s screwed up the UK for a generation, maybe more.

Imagine what would have happened if yS had won – forget generations!!!

Hmm Legacy well Cameron was clear about gay marriage and he made some positive statements about disabled rights. However these statements turned out to be utterly empty gestures. The bedroom tax came in on his watch and his government cut benefits and services for disabled people savagely. Inequality has grown under his government in his own words he held nothing back from the disasterous remain campaign . So since I am feeling generous I will give him 2/10

However he was like a man crossing a crocodile infested river by jumping from log to log. He got out with barely getting his feet wet.

That is a good analogy up the point about him succesfully getting out – we’re talking about Dave the politician, not Dave the person.
He did indeed skate his way across the political river full of crocs, firefighting, seat of the pants, last minute revision style. Made it to the last log, within touching distance of the safety of the riverbank, and decides to stop, lower his trousers and show his backside to us all. At which point he slips and falls in to be dismembered limb from limb. Bodyparts salvaged and buried in a brexit-shaped coffin at a crossroads outside of town.

Inequality has grown under his government

Except that it hasn’t – but never mind, this is the post-truth politics era after all.

So since I am feeling generous I will give him 2/10

Compared with 1/10 for (mis) using facts (sic) to make a point !!

Strange, I recall you being all for direct democracy on constitutional issues up until 18th September 2014 – what could possibly have led to this Damascene conversion I wonder?

Actually, I’d be fine with the Scottish parliament declaring independence without another referendum – it worked for Estonia among others. The people of Scotland have elected a pro-independence majority, that’s a good enough mandate for me.

The people of Scotland have elected a pro-independence majority, that’s a good enough mandate for me.

Just a blatant contradiction of the democratic principle though Ben. Ends…..means…..

Not really – you either have a representative democracy or a direct democracy. A representative democracy which then asks the people about the really hard decisions is abdicating responsibility.

But I accept others disagree with that view, so I’m looking forward to Indyref2 😉

bencooper – Member

Strange, I recall you being all for direct democracy on constitutional issues up until 18th September 2014 – what could possibly have led to this Damascene conversion I wonder?

Actually, I’d be fine with the Scottish parliament declaring independence without another referendum – it worked for Estonia among others. The people of Scotland have elected a pro-independence majority, that’s a good enough mandate for me. Have a look at the Soviet states who did hold independence referenda to see what a real mandate looks like, Ben.

so I’m looking forward to Indyref2

Dont hold your breath – the last one was for a generation/lifetime! 😉

And its even worse this time – in her desperation, dear Nicola is prepared to tie you into the folly of the single currency. You guys really do deserve better.

How on earth are we back onto Scottish Independence ? Salmond said it was a once in a lifetime vote and he was totally correct. UDI worked out for Zimbabwe, well sort of.

@ben younreally should be greatful to Cameron as he granted Scotland a Referendum, something no other PM would have done nor will another in the future. You had a 2 year campaign and you couldn’t win the argument

And its even worse this time – in her desperation, dear Nicola is prepared to tie you into the folly of the single currency. You guys really do deserve better.

As far as I know, the currency thing is still up in the air – Sterling, Euro or Scottish Pound. But whatever, we definitely do deserve better than what we’ve got, I completely agree on that…

…if by that you mean being tied to an increasingly insular England with Tories in power for the forseeable future and the opposition in meltdown.

How on earth are we back onto Scottish Independence ?

I have a special talent that way.

Sterling: No control over interest rates / monetary policy, can’t have that and be in the EU
Euro: No control over interest rates / monetary policy together with a huge liability for economically failed Southern Europe
Scottish Pound: Cant’t have that and be in the EU, likely to be highly volatile and linked to oil price, will require expensive setup of a central bank. Questionable as to whether Scotland would have any commercial banks at all ?

I have a special talent that way

We can’t argue with that as we are discussing it again 😳

Sterling: No control over interest rates / monetary policy

Like at the moment, then.

Euro: No control over interest rates / monetary policy together with a huge liability for economically failed Southern Europe

Some control, which seems to work okay for other EU countries.

Scottish Pound: Cant’t have that and be in the EU

Tell that to the Swedish. Many smaller countries than Scotland have their own currency.

Jamba, I’m sure Scotland would manage without Westminster’s guiding hand, just like all the other countries that have become independent from the British Empire.

Our only problem may be our increasingly rightwing warmongering neighbour to the south, but I’m sure the wall they’ll build to stop refugees fleeing North will sort that. 🙂

There are more **** ups on that map than success stories. Remind me how life is for someone in Burma, Zimbabwe, Egypt or Kuwait?

Even Cyprus has been invaded since going independent, oh and still has a big UK military presence on it, which sets a nice precedent for Trident staying in Scotland.

There are more **** ups on that map than success stories. Remind me how life is for someone in Burma, Zimbabwe, Egypt or Kuwait?

And do you think Scotland is more like Zimbabwe or New Zealand?

Scottish Pound: Cant’t have that and be in the EU, likely to be highly volatile and linked to oil price, will require expensive setup of a central bank. Questionable as to whether Scotland would have any commercial banks at all ?

Is that an actual fact or another Jamba fact

Would you like a list of all the current EU members who aren’t in the Eurozone?