Darkside- Which one(s)?

On the SRAM groupsets- whats a decent one to plum for?

(thinking IF I went for a Planetx)

there’s nothing wrong with 105

It’s heavy, which on a road bike is not great.

I agree that it would be reasonable to expect it on a £1200 bike, but the other components will suffer as a result of speccing a 105 grouppo , leading to a very heavy bike. My point being much better to buy second hand.

hora, if you can go to 1199 i’d bite their hands off for this:
linky

Hora – Rival is fine. Planet X were doing a Sram Red full bike a while ago for something daft like £999 (my mate was tempted). On inspection if was just shifters and rear mech or something daft with low rent brakes etc.

Cycling Plus just did a review of Sram Apex (basically Rival with a long rear cage mech), Shim 105 and Campag Centaur and they came out in favour of Sram because you could stick a 32t rear cassette on it. 105 was 500g heavier but better quality they reckoned.

If you want cheaper with mudguard clearance Scott Speedster (S65 I think) looks canny. Alloy though.

Oh, and 14st 6’3″ of me doesn’t seem to find the PX carbon flexy….

Hora – Rival is fine. Planet X were doing a Sram Red full bike a while ago for something daft like £999 (my mate was tempted). On inspection if was just shifters and rear mech or something daft with low rent brakes etc.

Hmmm The above Red is Apex chainset and Planetx’s own wheels.

105 5600 chainset: 836g
Ultegra SL chainset: 790g

Dunno what 5700 weighs, but I’ll bet it’s lighter. If you can tell 46g in the heaviest part of the group I doth my cap to you.

The PX deal is good, but IMO SRAMs a bit love/hate, I much prefer Shimano. You could flog the Red and buy sommat else at that price mind!

Hmmm The above Red is Apex chainset and Planetx’s own wheels.

And no name brakes, but the expensive things are the shifters. upgrade as you see fit. Planet X wheels are on the whole fairly good.

That Planet X weights only 7.5kg… Is there any weight limits for the rider on any bits? Never ridden a carbon road bike but I did have couple of aluminium ones before my steel one. Newer steel is comfortable but still the bike is light and feels fast.

I love my steel Lemond and it does make longer rides much more comfortable and in my opinion it feels stiffer when sprinting than the aluminium Trek 1200 it replaced. Reasonable weight at 9.2kg as well with potential to go under 9kg by using lighter tyres/tubes.

There was a same frame as mine on eBay in 58cm or so not so long ago.

105 5600 chainset: 836g
Ultegra SL chainset: 790g

did I say I’d upgraded the chainset?

SRAM Apex 775g

so, in the context of hora buying a bike the apex on the PX is the better choice

leading to a very heavy bike

sounds like 105 is made of cast iron which of course it isn’t

What about a cross bike rather than a road bike??

Best of both worlds then. Then when your board/scared of riding on the road you can nip off on to some decent stuff. + enter the 3 peaks.

Hmm – the whole groupset (excluding wheels etc) on the 6700 is approx 2301g and the 5700 is a whole 500g heavier @ 2800 – that just over 1 lb – not a biggy really in the grand scheme of things!

There must be an online realworld comparator for the three groupset levels? (i.e. where they REALLY sit against each other to enable us to check/compare/understand)

Sram
Campag
Shimano

http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/roadie-sram-v-shimano-groupset-comparison

mieszko – what model is your lemond?

sounds like 105 is made of cast iron which of course it isn’t

read what I said, if manufacturers (especially the big ones) spec 105 on a cheap bike other parts will have to be cheaper so their costs are kept down, stems, bars, wheels, seatposts etc all suffer adding weight to a bike.

that just over 1 lb – not a biggy really in the grand scheme of things!

go on weight weenies and tell them that 🙂

There must be an online realworld comparator for the three groupset levels? (i.e. where they REALLY sit against each other to enable us to check/compare/understand)

You could price the whole groupset and see what other ones match it – that’s about the best you could do. Ribble or Parkers should do them all.

Don’t compare just, say, the Brake levers/shifters. Shimano ones are madly expensive compared to Campag, but the rear mech etc. are opposite way around.

Manufaturers mix and match as well with an FSA chainset in the mix, or a dodgy set of no-brand brakes.

Think Apex/Rival, 105 and Centaur are about the same.

Only problem with Centaur is it’s 10 speed, if you ‘upgrade’ the better gruppos are 11 speed so you need to change a lot of things in one go. Sram/Shim at least are all 10 speed so you can just get the DuraAce/Red rear mech and it’ll drop straight in.

unless you are already running campag I would stick to shimano/ SRAM

cheaper and more kit on the classifieds for upgrades

and I run Campag

[/quote]There must be an online realworld comparator for the three groupset levels? (i.e. where they REALLY sit against each other to enable us to check/compare/understand)

Just not that clear cut though.

Think of the SLX/XT/XTR vs X.7/X.9/X.0/XX argument.

What about a cross bike rather than a road bike??

Best of both worlds then.

That got mentioned previously, IMO they’re the worst of both worlds, certainly not as nice to ride on the road.

there’s nothing wrong with 105

It’s heavy, which on a road bike is not great.

I agree that it would be reasonable to expect it on a £1200 bike, but the other components will suffer as a result of speccing a 105 grouppo , leading to a very heavy bike. My point being much better to buy second hand.

My point was simply that performance, at the level of most of us on here ride at (and certainly Hora, haha) won’t suffer as a result of having a 105 rear mech or chainset. Performance will suffer as a result of having an over weight kit obsessed rider on top who spends 6-7 hours a week on a bike tops.

Nothing wrong with having nice kit, but don’t kid yourself you’re doing it for performance unless you’re competing, and at a pretty high level at that.

…and my tarmac, with 105 and those cheap planet X wheels, was just under 18lbs on the shop scales. Nearly 3lbs above the UCI weight limit! How do I survive on my bike which is probably technically superior to any tour winning bike pre-2002 or so? Life with rubbish components is so hard 🙁

inapv, you would roll up outside the twee cafe on an early Sunday morning and have disinterested looks thrown at you from the potbellied supa-bike riders!

I would say 105 is the top level of what Hora wants. Most of the race bikes I see have 105 or Ultegra. People seem to upgrade the chainset, but then not bother about the rest. Tiagra seems quite usual on the training bikes I see. I guess I must live in a poor part of the country or something.
Money seems to go on wheels, clothes and power meters. Groupsets make no difference.

In fact, all this equipment discussion obviously makes you out as a mountain biker. A roadie will be far more interested in what jersey you are wearing.

As per mountain biking- plain but muted.

Not covered in the cycle manufacturer or the names of tours etc etc.

Sod that- sad enough on a mountain biker! 😆

Hora it’s a Lemond Sarthe. Older models were Reynolds 853, this one is True Temper Platinum OX. It’s a keeper, I might change the groupset and wheels at some point in the future but the frame is lovely.

What leg shaving cream are You getting? 😉

Question – in general which type/genre of roadbike has more relaxed geometry? I’m guessing time trial has a steeper/rakish set of angles, same with serious roadcycle with audux/touring more relaxed?

Have you looked at the builds on Ribble? They look pretty good from what I can see. You can get a 105 equiped bike for under £1k.

I really did not get on with the SRAM road shifters (Red and Force) and couldn’t wait to get back to Shimano. The SRAM single lever did not suit me, so it is definitely worth trying both types of shifters on a test ride.

I went from 105 to ultegra – not for weight but for shifting performance (old 105) and it was def better but 105 was fine TBH 🙂

Winter bike/commuter has 8 speed Campag Veloce which shifts very nicely for what it needs to do 🙂

What about a cross bike rather than a road bike??

Best of both worlds then. Then when your board/scared of riding on the road you can nip off on to some decent stuff. + enter the 3 peaks.

To paraphrase Glee…..

They’re not versatile, they’re bi-sexual!

Seriously, try one, my touring bike is noticably slower/harder work than my racer, stick CX tyres on it and I’d go faster sat at home pokeing blunt needles in my eyes.

Go s/h and look for a cannondale CAAD frame, not the lightest but well regarded and often compared to steel bikes in terms of ‘zing’. My entire bikes cost me sub £600 for the basic bike, upgraded wheels to R-550, dura ace 20speed (the older model though, the shame of it), FSA SL-K chainset and carbon bars, nice-ish saddle, gp4000 tyres.

Just the Stem and seatpost to go.

Then I’ll look for a new frame, maybe.

Question – in general which type/genre of roadbike has more relaxed geometry? I’m guessing time trial has a steeper/rakish set of angles, same with serious roadcycle with audux/touring more relaxed?

You’ve got it – basically the ‘faster’ you’re (meant to) go on a genre of bike pretty much implies steeper angles.

It’s not a crazy difference – my ‘relaxed’ CX/winter bike doesn’t feel that much lazier than the more race style PX Carbon jobbie.

http://www.epic-cycles.co.uk/Genesis_Equilibrium.html

Genesis Equilibrium is a nice option. And it has room for mudguards making it very versatile. It’s a looker too.

I got the Aether (same geometry but cheaper alu frame) for my winter bike and it is excellent. I would have gone for the Equilibrium but it was way over budget.

Re: SRAM or Shimano.

I have SRAM Force groupset on my best bike and it is really good, but the shifts are noticeably more “agricultural” than the 9sp Shimano on the winter bike. I love the doubletap levers though.
It is light for the money too. Force is a bit lighter even than Dura-Ace in BB30 form and only 10g heavier in GXP external BB form.

I’d have no hesitation in recommending it.

Top one is ‘relaxed’ geometry, bottom one is ‘race’ geometry, not exactly a massive difference…