1. Argument between cyclists and person in a large SUV occurs. The driver then speeds off and pulls in in front of the cyclists who are trapped against the curb and clipped in as the driver jumps out and runs around the car with a knife. As the happens the second cyclist draws their gun to warn off the driver, by this time it’s too late and she is worried her friend will get stabbed so shoots the driver in the leg, who then dies.

2.Argument between cyclists and person in a large SUV occurs. SUV driver speedS off 200m up the road and gets out with knife, posturing. Cyclists continue towards him, one draws their gun and shoots him in the head because she can.

3. Somewhere in between. If you stop and then get out of your car, then threaten somebody with a weapon this can happen. Honestly, having been on the receiving end of large vehicles being driven deliberately close to me and by inattention I can understand how the cyclist felt threatened by the argument. The knife was the final straw- the cyclist felt their life was threatened.

It’s a tricky one for me. Had the shooter been a trained professional, I would have expected them to fire a warning shot, followed by non lethal shot followed by lethal shot.

From the photos it looks like the middle of downtown, skyscrapers above and concrete road below. Where exactly are you pointing this warning shot so you dont kill someone else?
As for accurately airming a “non-lethal” shot while scared for your life – have a watch of some of those american police stop type shows. The cops generally empty the magazines at people 10 feet away with the voiceover saying “the suspect was uninjured”.

It’s a tricky one for me. Had the shooter been a trained professional, I would have expected them to fire a warning shot, followed by non lethal shot followed by lethal shot.

There’s no such thing, you’d need a gun that was self-guiding to the shoulder. This gets brought up every time the police shoot someone dead and there’s journos going “why didn’t you just shoot to wound?”

You pull a trigger, there’s a high chance someone is going to die. Whether the shooter means that or not is largely irrelevant to the actual outcome.

jairaj

It’s a tricky one for me. Had the shooter been a trained professional, I would have expected them to fire a warning shot, followed by non lethal shot followed by lethal shot.

Supposed “trained professionals” are shooting unarmed civilians on a daily basis over there, the idea that people will pick and choose shots when faced with a knife wielding assailant is Hollywood fantasy.

porter_jamie

Im also sure i read something that shows that tough gun laws and low gun crime doesnt correlate

The do correlate in every other country. They don’t in parts of the US like Chicago, which has stricter laws, but is surrounded by other states where guns are dished out like sweets to kids, and that used as the basis for the kind of nonsense you’ve just quoted by the NRA types

It’s a tricky one for me. Had the shooter been a trained professional, I would have expected them to fire a warning shot, followed by non lethal shot followed by lethal shot.

I understand where you are coming from, but this is really, really not possible.

Leaving aside the adrenaline hitting your system and narrowing your focus (even as a professional with the training for that event, you still have that), you _cannot_ fire a warning shot because you have no idea where it will end up. Bullets go a long way and ricochet in very odd directions. They have a lot of energy and can hurt/kill even at long ranges. In a street, there’s really no such thing as a safe backstop.

The same with a non-lethal shot. It’s difficult enough in a stressful situation to get a round onto a target without trying to aim for something that might be less lethal than centre of mass or the white aiming mark. Aim for the shoulder? You’re likely as not gong to hit something really vulnerable and they are going to bleed out in minutes anyway. Stomach? Bullets go through and will likely hit lungs, heart, spine or something else critical on the way through.

It is such an emotive subject and rightly so. Escalation to actually using a firearm is a really difficult and life-changing point. When you make that choice, it is a choice to aim for the easiest, biggest target you can that will bring down your target. You should be prepared to kill every time you draw down on a person. If you cannot do that, then you should not be carrying a firearm. I think that is forgotten by a lot of people in the US and that can cause problems.

If someone got out their car raging and then came back with a knife…would you just not sprint off on your bike.
Or…would you stand your ground letting it escalate knowing that you had a gun and could just shoot them.

Get a mate to stand <10m in front of you while you’re on your bike with a foot on the ground and the other clipped in. Then ask your mate to ‘rush’ you while you try to turn round and sprint away. I bet you’ll be caught every time. And that’s with you knowing that you need to get away rather than starting off thinking it’s just some fool having a harmless whinge.

Thing for me is – car driver comes at you with a knife, you draw your gun.. point it at him. Does he keep coming or does he go, oops, sorry I’m off? At which point do you actually KILL the idiot?
I know I get bloody wound up by some drivers, but even if I had a gun, would I be that enraged as to pull the **** trigger. Baffling.

I am actually more worried that anyone would feel the need to carry a knife in a car for protection!!!

One less Landrover driver.

It’s a tricky one for me. Had the shooter been a trained professional, I would have expected them to fire a warning shot, followed by non lethal shot followed by lethal shot.

That sort of stuff would most likely get you killed – trained professional or not – and is the sort of things that just looks great in the movies.

Thing is every one is just speculating…remember; the bloke with the knife is dead, we have a couple who are telling Police that he threatened them with it…who are the people that shot him dead…

C’mon folks..!?!

There’s not enough information in that report to say if it was justified or not.
Will it even be investigated Or put down to “he was coming straight for us”?
Michigan is a stand your ground state,
“Under Michigan states’ “Stand Your Ground” law, a person can use deadly force anywhere he/she has a legal right to be—with no duty to retreat—to prevent imminent great bodily harm or death.
Michigan is a stand your ground state.
He had a knife should not be the sole justification for killing someone.

From the same news site.
Bumping into someones child, not apologizing escalates to pulling a fire arm.
https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/husband-wife-charged-with-felony-assault-after-gun-is-pulled-on-mom-and-daughter-in-orion-twp-after-argument
WTAF??????That person had more bullets in their gun than brains in their head!

a person can use deadly force anywhere he/she has a legal right to be—with no duty to retreat—to prevent imminent great bodily harm or death.

You can do the same in the UK, the “reasonable self defence” defence. Obviously we don’t have easy access to firearms though

“with no duty to retreat”?

Not in Scotland, you need to be/feel unable to escape iirc.

I am fairly sure UK armed cops are trained to shoot right into the centre of the body the theory being that if they need to shoot deadly force is required and aiming for legs for example means to high risk of missing.

a person can use deadly force anywhere he/she has a legal right to be—with no duty to retreat—to prevent imminent great bodily harm or death.

You can do the same in the UK, the “reasonable self defence” defence.

This is why (when not cycling) I normally travel by lawnmower.

Son ‘cut dad’s leg off with lawnmower to protect himself from chainsaw attack’

If on foot then a leaf-blower in a back-holster I find serves amply as a deterrent. Have never felt the need to turn it on, at least.

I have to say I’m a bit worried by some of the posts in this thread.

Whilst I am not supportive of anyone using a car as a weapon, let alone a knife. I am reasonably sure that shooting the knife wielder was not the only option…

The posts saying in one way or another that the guy with the knife learnt his lesson or he deserved it – makes me feel just a little bit sick and very glad we do not permit the legal ownership or public use of handguns.

would have expected them to fire a warning shot, followed by non lethal shot followed by lethal shot.

People like to think that. It’s nonsense. Armed police shoot to kill and will aim for the chest. A verbal warning will be given first. Counter terrorism will aim elsewhere. They don’t have to give a warning, I believe.

Few facts have been released in this case. It’s a different world. Sure we’ve all had the odd fantasy road rage rebuttal. One of the most heated debates in the tandem@hobbes list was “are you packing?”. The others were how to keep the stoker happy, of course.

Can you get the Glock in red to match Hope brakes?

Unfortunately not in New York, possibly in other states, as it is illegal to have a gun that looks like a toy or a toy that looks like a real gun.

Someone mentioned guns as an alternative to bear spray. I asked this question to some Canadians, they were of the opinion that a pistol would probably just piss off the bear, where as an Alaskan I spoke to felt that a non lethal round in a pistol designed for shotgun shells would work well.

as for shooting the driver, if you’d always lived in America and someone came at you with a knife you’d probably shoot them.

I know I get bloody wound up by some drivers, but even if I had a gun, would I be that enraged as to pull the **** trigger. Baffling.

If someone was running at me with a knife* and it looked like they were about to stab me with it, and for some messed up reason (like I lived in the US) I had a gun, I’m pretty sure I’d pull the trigger – because I’d be absolutely shitting it.

I’m not saying it’s right, but if you allow people to carry weapons around, they will use them (based on base survival instincts) if they feel threatened. It’s messed up, but the rules that allow them to carry the weapons seem much more to blame than human instinct.

*assuming that’s what happened, obviously I have no idea if that’s the case or not

@jamj1974 has it absolutely spot on. I know a few UK gun owners. They all take their responsibilities incredibly seriously and I don’t think any of them would come anywhere close to making these sort of comments. Hope nobody on this thread has a licence!!