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  • Cycling and concussion
  • CaptainFlashheart
    Free Member

    I really thought that cycling was learning from the way rugby has taken to dealing with concussion issues, but apparently not…

    https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racing/george-bennetts-helmet-snaps-in-two-after-crash-at-paris-nice-492790

    ayjaydoubleyou
    Full Member

    Doesn’t reflect well on them for sure.
    What’s the current thinking on helmets snapping in two?
    To my mind that was not working as intended – to snap it, it must have been hit hard between two objects, one of which being the riders skull.
    Crushing to absorb impact and possibly sliding to reduce the forces are (how I think they should) work.

    But you’ll find others who will post a pic of a snapped helmet with ‘definitely saved my life’

    slowpuncheur
    Full Member

    I watched that live. Bennett seemed to me to be in no fit state to continue and certainly didn’t seem to have been assessed at all. The race doctor was late on the scene and Bennett was pedaling again before he could make any sort of assessment. They didn’t cover themselves in glory. Not a good look for cycling that.

    joat
    Full Member

    The doctors probably didn’t have the benefit of what the viewers saw, but if I were the cameraman, assuming he could see what we saw, I’d be putting the camera down and telling everyone that his eyes were rolling about in his head. People can be very convincing when they say they’re okay, but George really needed saving from himself. I don’t know if officials watch the live feed but there was enough evidence to black flag him straight away should there be a protocol for this.

    CaptainFlashheart
    Free Member

    So…(hope this isn’t a spoiler!)

    TGH takes a head knock and doesn’t feel 100%, so he climbs off.

    He did the right thing.

    Can’t help but think it was also very much shots fired at JV and Bennett.

    igm
    Full Member

    My son came off at the local cycling club. Closed road circuit 10-15 year olds learning to ride flat out in close proximity, some of them have gone on to the BC academy.
    Squashed helmet, bit shaken, but seemed ok. Then I realised he was repeated asking the same three questions on a a couple of minutes repeat. Off to A&E.

    Concussion. Quelle surprise.

    So I’m back down at the circuit with his brother a week later and I ask what the return protocol for concussion is.

    There wasn’t one. I played rugby for a very long time, and the idea of no return protocol horrified me.

    I applied the rugby one (which we’re probably finding doesn’t go far enough, but we’re finding that).

    Cycling needs to get with the game on this.

    And not just for pros.

    PS – squash versus snap. My son’s helmet was, after the event, half the thickness on the impact side due to squashing down.
    Also, he was wearing cheap Bolle safety specs, which lost a millimetre or so worn off on the frame. Probably saved his eyebrow.

    tjagain
    Full Member

    The helmet should crush not snap. Its the crushing that dissipates the energy both by spreading the impact over a wider area and by absorbing energy during the crushing

    muggomagic
    Full Member

    The EWS commissioned a study into injuries a couple of years back and published it and they created some documents around concussion and how to assess it etc.

    https://admin.enduroworldseries.com/uploads/documents/RIDER%20EWS%20Concussion%20Guide%20A6%20FINAL%20WEB.pdf

    igm
    Full Member

    TJ – it crushed magnificently. I have three photos from the event. Destroyed helmet, destroyed glasses, son looking very worse for wear (bruising and abrasions on cheek – looked horrible, gone a week later).

    I coach the youngest group now and I show those photos to parents whose children are fast but can hold a straight line when they ask me why can’t their kids move into the higher groups.

    igm
    Full Member

    EWS 👍

    They probably need to add some likely timescale expectations to the return protocol – eg “This stage might be expected to last no less than X weeks before progression to the next stage.” That sort of thing.

    But a good start.

    stevenmenmuir
    Free Member

    Similar story in diving. My son has had a couple of mild concussions but we relied on a friend who is a nurse and used to work at a private school, to give us advice on returning to training. His coach was going to bring it up with British Diving but I don’t know what happened. A quick Google doesn’t show anything.

    FB-ATB
    Full Member

    I suppose part of the problem is no rider will want to hang around while the bunch is going down the road. At least in most other sports play can be stopped pending assessment.

    CaptainFlashheart
    Free Member

    I suppose part of the problem is no rider will want to hang around while the bunch is going down the road. At least in most other sports play can be stopped pending assessment.

    A good point. Perhaps neutralise the time for riders getting back on after a test somehow? Assuming they finish within the cut off time, they get a time somewhere in the pack or something?

    igm
    Full Member

    Perhaps neutralise the time for riders getting back on after a test somehow?

    A very sticky doctor’s water bottle perhaps.
    I look forward to TT specialists in GC contention having tactical crashes at the bottom of Hors climbs.

    mrdestructo
    Full Member

    Concussions are dangerous if you don’t realise, then get another within a couple of weeks. Multiple concussions over your life eventually lead to problems. Are they using the term here to also cover mTBI’s?

    mTBI’s (mild traumatic brain injuries). You can faceplant hard, crack your helmet, electricity stops in your brain for a few seconds. Afterwards you realise you have virtually no scratches on your body but suffer a life-changing injury that, if you’re lucky, and with the right advice and treatment, will lead to you recovering enough to lead a somewhat normal life. You’re never the same again though. Retraining your brain where you lost connections, psychological issues, dependency issues, emotional outbursts, etc, etc.

    slowoldman
    Full Member

    Another casualty today – Tony Martin in Tirreno Adriatico. Now there seems to be some sort of protocol in place we seem to have seen a few suspected concussion cases in the past couple of weeks or so. I imagine we didn’t see them before because they just got back on and continued, pushed on their way by a (helpful) mechanic.

    Watty
    Full Member

    He broke his collarbone didn’t he? Seemed to be laughing at the docs questions, which seemed to imply he wasn’t concussed according to Mr Millar*.
    Playing devils advocate here, do they now assume every rider in every crash has concussion? It’s not going to make for very exciting racing if they’re all shit scared to fall off is it?

    *Did you see that bollard that Roglic described as a bit of plastic that TM hit? What a ridiculous thing to have halfway round a bend in a cycle race.

    sparksmcguff
    Full Member

    There are concussion protocols at UCI races.

    The main issue (and Jumbo V have history with this) is DSs not following or being poorly trained in the protocols (poorly trained may equate to can’t be arsed).

    Applying concussion protocols won’t lead to riders being afraid to fall – listen to just make themselves talk about racing.

    Riders are generally really good at falling. Tuck and roll and all that, or simply slide. A bad fall and one that involves a blow to the head tends to be pretty clear. There are not that many falls in a race that might slow the race down for the sake of fair play.

    slowoldman
    Full Member

    He broke his collarbone didn’t he?

    I read fractured elbow. He looked very shaky when he got on his bike and even more so when he tried to get off it.

    CaptainFlashheart
    Free Member

    Another casualty today – Tony Martin in Tirreno Adriatico.

    As well as his crash at Paris Nice? Busy man!

    🙂

    JonEdwards
    Free Member

    A few years ago a mate for mine was working for team GB DH as a gofer/runner/water-carrier/bikepusher at the World Champs. He said they were trying to run concussion protocols (I think it was around the time Dave Mirra killed himself), but the whole thing was quietly dropped when they realised that none of the riders were going to make it through practice to the race…

    slowoldman
    Full Member

    As well as his crash at Paris Nice?

    So many races at once. Confusing isn’t it? A bit surprising I didn’t have him in the Healthy Ageing Tour.

    teamslug
    Full Member

    But you’ll find others who will post a pic of a snapped helmet with ‘definitely saved my life’

    That would be me then. I crashed hard and fast at 30mph on the trail. My helmet took a blow on the left hand side and snapped on the right between the vents. I assume that was the impact transferring across the helmet and not my skull?. I never noticed it had crushed. It wasn’t a MIPS helmet(661 Recon). Are roadie helmet MIPS.
    I lost my peripheral vision and but had all my faculties. Trip to A&E and a quick check up. Short term some whiplash and bruising. Long term nothing but it was a one off. Wouldn’t like to think I took many hits like.
    It’s good that it’s been brought to the fore in lots of sports and some joined up thinking would be good. Just watched a piece on BBC news about Gordon McQueen and Ex England international Dave Watson who both have dementia possibly linked to repeated heading of the ball.
    Is anyone surprised the UCI are slow to act. Decision like that need to be taken out of team docs hands.

    onehundredthidiot
    Full Member

    Tony Martin did seem to go through some concussion protocol but the earlier crash was an obvious fail.
    I can’t remember but mechanism of “injury” aand some other factors would effect whether a helmet cracked or not but there would alway be compression of the material. The Bennet break of helmet was at the back and I’d hazard a guess that the shape and structure could cause that break.

    tjagain
    Full Member

    Helmets with those aero sticky out bits at the back are more likely to cause issues

    Remember there is good data that in some crashes helmets especially those with sticky out bits can increase concussions because of rotational forces – the very things MIPs is intended to reduce

    I would love to see an analysis of these concussions to see the type of fall. It could actually be really good data

    sparksmcguff
    Full Member

    Cycling podcast are reporting that the race organisers followed a protocol with Bennet including having him followed by an ambulance.

    However, the JV DSs don’t seem to have applied much of a protocol.

Viewing 26 posts - 1 through 26 (of 26 total)

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