Chatting to a friend who rents out a property…. The tenant has fallen on tough times and can not pay the rent, the tenant went to the council housing place to see if there was anything they could do/advise. She was informed the best course of action was to stay in the property even if she could not pay the rent and just not answer the door if the landlord came around for the rent, she was told it would take months to get her out and hopefully that would give her time to sort things for her and her daughter.

Luckily the tenant was a decent person and said that was just plain wrong and moved out back to her parents.

This has been happening for quite a few years.

And it’s only when that tenant becomes homeless that the council have to act. So you see why they do it.

I knew it happened never realised the council actually advised people to do it.

A tenant in one of my fathers properties was given the same advise 30years ago. Some things never change.
The tenant in question sounds a decent person, loads would just take the councils advise.

It wasn’t the council who suggested that ploy, it was a sympathetic left-leaning local government employee.

….and moved out back to her parents.

If the tenant had such a simple and straightforward solution why did she bother the council and waste their time ?

.

it was a sympathetic left-leaning local government employee.

How do you know it wasn’t a sympathetic right-leaning local government employee who thought the council shouldn’t be paying her rent and would rather see her kicked out ?

If the tenant had such a simple and straightforward solution why did she bother the council and waste their time ?

Moving back in with your parents is sometimes far from simple and straightforward! There’s many a night I’ve went somewhere quiet and slept in the van rather than face the parents.

This didn’t sound very problematic :

“Luckily the tenant was a decent person and said that was just plain wrong and moved out back to her parents”

Erie l ….. I do not know the full story so refrain from making assumptions about how easy a solution was, I do know her parents live in a 1 bedroom flat and have health issues oh it is also about 6 miles or 2 bus journeys from her daughters school. Like I say I will refrain from making assumptions but it does not sound an easy solution to me

ignoring the politics and us all just saying whether we are left or right wing that still remains the best advice for that person as it would give her a few mths of not being homeless in order to sort it out

Morally you/we may disapprove and the person is free to what they like with the advice but it is the best way of avoiding being homeless in the short run.

I suspect they also mentioned moving in with friends, staying with family and some other choices in order to let the person choose.
I would say they were doing their job by explaining the options to the customer

It may be the best way of them not being homeless have you considered the landlord who may rely on the rent to pay the mortgage on the place… What advice do we give them when they go to the bank and say sorry cant afford the mortgage for a bit the tenant can not afford the rent.

Kill off buy to let scam or at least make a limit on how much you can charge for rent like they do in Sweden. Maybe.

have you considered the landlord who may rely on the rent to pay the mortgage on the place

You are not giving advoce to them as what is the best thing to do

As i said whether you or I like it or not it is still the best advice for the tenant.

What advice do we give them when they go to the bank and say sorry cant afford the mortgage for a bit the tenant can not afford the rent.

It obvious th landlord wont be happy and they should contact the banks and discuss. they may wish to consider whether they can afford this investment/. I am not saying they dont face hardship, they do. One one hand we have a multiple home owner and on the other we have someone who is about to be homeless.

Which do you think needs the most help even if you are sympathetic to both?

Not that it has much to do with the op but is there not already a limit on rent ? You can only charge what people are willing to pay.

What does ‘ the buy to let scam’ have to do with the council advice?

What advice do we give them when they go to the bank and say sorry cant afford the mortgage for a bit the tenant can not afford the rent.

I would advise them to look for more stable investments, if you purchase on a buy to let mortgage, and are dependent on every monthly rent payment to keep your head above water, then you have made a very bad investment judgement.

MSP … Again with the assumption, never said they bought it on buy to let. Even if it was does that make the council advice right?

Aye. Something similar happened to me, tennant went to shelter when we issued eviction notices after no rent for three months. Shelter told him just to squat as legally we couldnt do that. Pretty sure he didnt mention to them about not paying the rent..

If its not buy to let, why can the mortgage payments not be paid on it if rental payments are missed? If it’s on a standard mortgage then they will be breaking the terms of the mortgage and would be committing fraud.

As JY said, while it would be better for the situation not to exist, preventing homelessness should be a higher priority than protecting bad investments.

As someone who just evicted a tenant for non-payment of rent, it is a kicker.
5 months it took, all with no rent paid. I also knew that for the last 6 weeks they were living elsewhere, just left all the junk and crap and belongings at our flat.
Again, we know that Perth and Kinross Council were suggesting to them that this was ‘OK’ and the ‘done thing’, and I even had a phone call from council asking me to stop calling the tenant and asking for my rent or when he would move out, as it could be seen as threatening. 🙄
Court, here we come.

MSP what does the mortgage ‘product’ have to do with anything?

Not all rental properties were bought as an investment. Protecting homelessness buy punishing someone else? really?

MSP what does the mortgage ‘product’ have to do with anything?

Well you were the first to raise it

What advice do we give them when they go to the bank and say sorry cant afford the mortgage for a bit the tenant can not afford the rent.

Not all rental properties were bought as an investment. Protecting homelessness buy punishing someone else? really?

So what is it, it sounds like they are making a profit from it when all go’s well, but when it goes wrong the expect the general public via the council, to cover their losses.

If that’s not the case, you perhaps should explain the details a little better.

with the assumption, never said they bought it on buy to let. Even if it was does that make the council advice right?

Right for the tenant wrong for the home owner
oh and could you just say how they own the property as you seem to argue it a number of ways to suit your point.

Not sure why you cannot see both points/sides here tbh.

Junkyard I was talking hypothetically with regard to affording the mortgage based upon assumption you were making. With regard your other point of whom is most in need again you are making assumption because I made naff all reverence to my friends financial position

MSP I think you will find I said ‘ may rely on the rent to pay the mortgage’ ie a discussion in general terms rather than specifically related to my friend in the original post. How you can interpret any of my posts into that ‘ making a profit from it’ bit is nothing short of magical

Junkyard… My surprise at the councils advice has nothing to do with a tenants or landlords circumstance or how indeed they found themselves in the situation. My surprise is that the council would openly advise a tenant to stay in a property they can not pay rent on which may put the landlord in financial difficulty, advice given by a council with no knowledge or regard for a landlords circumstances ….. It is wrong

With regard your other point of whom is most in need again you are making assumption

No I am not. I said one cannot afford rent the other has [ at least] two homes. Neither of these facts are assumptions – which do yiu think is at most risk. Housing is the most basic of needs.
I dont think many will think its the landlord but YMMV

again they are not advising the landlord – would a financial adviser or solicitor advising the landlord take in the tenants needs ?

I have explained why the council did it you dont agree. Fine
Thread endeth I assume

And just as an an aside MSP referring to one of your earlier post not all rental property is buy to let whether it is the case now or not if you had a mortgage and had lived in the property for a period of time you could move out and rent the property out under your existing mortgage with permission from the lender.

Junkyard … Yes you are where did I say my friend had another property? Had a quick check and I can’t see where I said that

If I paid a solicitor of financial advisor I would expect advise that would be in my interest has a council not got a duty of care to everyone not just the tenant?

Ok my mistake he rents a house out and sleeps on the streets,there needs are equal, and the council are bastards

has a council not got a duty of care to everyone not just the tenant?

No, providing housing services is something that falls under the councils remit. Providing investment advice isn’t.

you could move out and rent the property out under your existing mortgage with permission from the lender.

They will only allow up to something like a month usually, as a transition period. Buy to let is seen as an investment loan and a higher risk than a standard mortgage, lenders expect to take their share, they don’t give away their profits for no reason.

MSP I think you will find I said ‘ may rely on the rent to pay the mortgage’ ie a discussion in general terms rather than specifically related to my friend in the original post. How you can interpret any of my posts into that ‘ making a profit from it’ bit is nothing short of magical

I quoted what you said here it is again.

What advice do we give them when they go to the bank and say sorry cant afford the mortgage for a bit the tenant can not afford the rent.

I didn’t realise he was renting the house out at a loss, as you didn’t mention it. But I am not sure what advice you expect the council could give that would resolve his problems if that is the case.

MSP I used to have a rental property many years ago that was rented out under the original mortgage for years, it was done when I went to work abroad I was told I would only have to change to buy to let if I was to remortgage. It was not an investment I could not afford to sell . Not all rental properties are investments.

It may be the best way of them not being homeless have you considered the landlord who may rely on the rent to pay the mortgage on the place… What advice do we give them when they go to the bank and say sorry cant afford the mortgage for a bit the tenant can not afford the rent.

Clearly you’d advise them to discuss a mortgage holiday or perhaps I/O option with the bank.

As JY says, the council will advise the person stood in front of them. Their advice to a landlord about to loose their only home? Stay put and wait for the bank to repossess. Exactly the same scenario, no? No council would advise someone to make themselves homeless.

I would expect the council not to give advise that may lead another party into financial difficulties.

Rich same scenario yes (ish) I don’t really agree with that either in general terms (I’m not talking specific cases or scenarios)

Actually I would expect a council to run through the scenarios ie if you don’t pay the land lord could evict and it may take this long etc I would not expect them to actively promote that action as was the case in my friends situation ( based upon the tenants story)

I said that earlier – perhaps some of the advice included moving in with parents – I would be surprised if they did not provide a number of options

An adviser advises the person in front of them of the best thing FOR THEM. What other point is there in seeing an advisor? They dont advise what will be best for someone else not there and not asking them. It matters not whether the adviser is a solicitor, a financial adviser or a council worker it matters not one jot. I dont know why you are struggling with this concept.

And if the outcome is a eviction court case and a judgement against the tenant for arrears, they lose too. But the local authority delays the tenant needing housing, so they benefit.

Probably for the same reason you struggle to see mine

Good point so is it in the tenants best interest to get further into arrears is the council looking after their own interest not the tenants?