Cotic Soul for XC racing???

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  • Cotic Soul for XC racing???
  • Premier Icon bratty
    Subscriber

    Yes, it is yet another thread about Cotic Souls, but has anyone built one up for XC racing. Whether rigid or not? What sort of weights are possible? Pics would be lurverly πŸ™‚

    b r
    Member

    Too heavy, you are giving away +1kg just in the frame.

    Premier Icon the-muffin-man
    Subscriber

    As a specific race bike then its not ideal, there are many other frames that are a lot lighter and with better suited geometry.

    As an everyday bike to be raced from time to time – then yes it’ll do the job just fine. I did a few 24hr races and the odd trailquest on mine.

    Premier Icon bratty
    Subscriber

    I have an Anthem with Fox RLC100 and Hope Monos and XT drive parts, so I am not sure that putting these parts on my Soul frame would actually be any faster….

    grievoustim
    Member

    No issues with geometry – if you run a 100mm fork the handling is super fast and perfect for XC

    Yes it’s a bit heavier than a carbon frame – so I guess it depends how important weight is to you and how light your other components are.

    Scamper
    Member

    Have no idea what top end carbon frames weight, but if a soul is giving away 1kg, that makes them 2.2lb max?

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    I raced mine, but I’m crap and slow so probably quite meaningless (also raced my carbon456 and my rigid carrera πŸ˜‰ )

    TBH it doesn’t make much sense to me, they’re brilliant but they’re pricey and though they’re light for steel, they’re a fair bit heavier than a cheaper alu frame. If you’re buying a race frame, then a Scandal would make a lot more sense, or many others also.

    barrykellett
    Member

    But the anthem is a race ready frame?

    mrblobby
    Member

    Yup, a top end carbon frame will weigh about 1000g.

    Soul frame is 2kg, XC carbon frames are generally about 1.1kg.

    About 10.7kg with WC SID’s, carbon post/bars/saddle, ti axels and ceramic bearings so not uber light but it does go! πŸ™‚

    DT78
    Member

    If it is for racing keep the anthem. I raced a season on a charge duster, then replaced with an anthrm

    Premier Icon njee20
    Subscriber

    What sort of weights are possible?

    Well Heinz Wittman has a Scale that weighs 11.7lbs with bouncy forks and 27 gears. His frame is 2lbs lighter than yours. So <14lbs is doable. HTH.

    It’ll be fine. I’d not buy one as a race bike, but if you’ve got it go mental. Rider makes the bigger difference.

    Premier Icon maxtorque
    Subscriber

    I think you are confusing lb with Kg……….

    hh45
    Member

    Perfectly fine for most people not wanting or expecting to challenge for the podium. I prefer not to race mine as I find the cockpit is a bit short (Large, I’m 5’11 but long armed) and prefer to be more stretched when racing. For normal riding its a fine fit.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    njee20 – Member

    Well Heinz Wittman has a Scale that weighs 11.7lbs with bouncy forks and 27 gears. His frame is 2lbs lighter than yours. So <14lbs is doable. HTH.

    v-brakes on that, isn’t it? No Souls with V-mounts.

    qwerty
    Member

    Would Shirley like a soda?

    qwerty
    Member

    If you fancy a Ti, then those Saracen Killi To frames from the homepage linked shop look awesome.

    Premier Icon mboy
    Subscriber

    As others have said, giving away too much in the frame weight for it to be competitive, but if it’s just the occasional race for fun that you want to do, then it can certainly be made suitable enough to race on. Just that it’ll be 2lb or so heavier than an equivalent carbon framed bike.

    Also depends on what you class as light too, cos to some people it’s not light til it’s sub 20lb, whereas I consider my Ti HT light at just on 25lb. But then it’s built so I can’t break it too, and if I ran any lighter parts I know I’d start to break them.

    Premier Icon njee20
    Subscriber

    I think you are confusing lb with Kg……….

    Yes, because an 11kg bike would be impressive…

    11.2lb Scale

    v-brakes on that, isn’t it? No Souls with V-mounts.

    Yeah alright, pedant! You also can’t buy half the products on it! I was being facetious, as ‘what weight is possible with x frame’ is a bit of a pointless question IMO!

    Edit: also interesting that his v-brake wheels weigh 1137g, and folk have done 950g clincher disc wheels, so that covers the weight difference there. It’s a triple too, so go 1×10 and I’ll stick by my ‘sub 14lbs is doable’ claim πŸ™‚

    I’ve raced XC on a BFe with Pikes and super tacky minions, I didn’t win.

    fizzicist
    Member

    Race mine quite a bit πŸ™‚ ZTR Olympics. XT/XTR group set. It’s no XC sprint machine but for long distance stuff its really rather good. My bro did Trans Portugal on a Soul. Not the lightest machine there but nothing broke and he did pretty well.

    Premier Icon Vortexracing
    Subscriber

    @ Tomcanbefound

    What is that crank set up?
    Chainring size
    Bash
    Chainguide

    Please

    Ta

    Premier Icon Kryton57
    Subscriber

    Yes, because an 11kg bike would be impressive…

    Excellent, my bike weigh’s 22.3lbs. It’s not a Soul btw.

    BristolPablo
    Member

    I’ve raced XC on a BFe with Pikes and super tacky minions, I didn’t win.

    Yeah but it was fun right?!?!

    Premier Icon bratty
    Subscriber

    My Soul frame is an old one – prob the mk.1 and therefore has V brake mounts. I did run it with a Project2 fork for a few years and a very short 6cm or so stem and it was very fast handling. It has very old xt bits and spare parts on it so with more modern XT it may end up 23lbs?

    And yes the Anthem is a very capable bike, but I now live somewhere flat and with lots of fire roads and so even front sus is not so essential here.

    b r
    Member

    My Soul frame is an old one – prob the mk.1 and therefore has V brake mounts. I did run it with a Project2 fork for a few years and a very short 6cm or so stem and it was very fast handling. It has very old xt bits and spare parts on it so with more modern XT it may end up 23lbs?

    Doubt it, esp not with pedals.

    Vortexracing – Member
    @ Tomcanbefound

    What is that crank set up?
    Chainring size
    Bash
    Chainguide

    Please

    Ta

    XT 785 double crank with a hope 36t Integrated Bash Ring and hope chain guide.

    Premier Icon njee20
    Subscriber

    My Soul frame is an old one – prob the mk.1 and therefore has V brake mounts. I did run it with a Project2 fork for a few years and a very short 6cm or so stem and it was very fast handling. It has very old xt bits and spare parts on it so with more modern XT it may end up 23lbs?

    The groupset is a small part of the weight, pretty insignificant. Whilst my comment was tongue in cheek it’s true – you’re giving away c2lbs on the frame against light XC bikes , so add 2lbs to the weight of any of those and that’s what you can do. 23lbs is easily doable. The older XT isn’t the stumbling block – the forks, wheels and finishing kit are.

    20lbs is doable, but expensive. 14lbs is physically possible with a bottomless bank balance.

    I’d not get too hung up on it though. Just ride it!

    Premier Icon bratty
    Subscriber

    I am riding it now in a spare parts build with heavyish sus forks (1800gish), but it is probably wasted on the flat trails here, so I am now erring towards a rigid build again for a fast handling tough xc bike…

    Premier Icon Vortexracing
    Subscriber

    cheers tomcanbefound, that looks very neat and simple.

    XT 785 double crank with a hope 36t Integrated Bash Ring and hope chain guide.

    Is that the seat tube mount chainguide? Debating either getting a Hope chainguide for my Soul (already have a bash ring) or getting rid of the bash and getting a Superstar XCR BB or MRP 1X. Don’t really care what the guide costs as long as it works and is least prone to clogging/jamming in mud. Confused by the Hope seat tube mount ones because they don’t appear to have a choice of sizes on the sites selling them but they do on the Hope site.

    Premier Icon Vortexracing
    Subscriber

    they may have shims to allow for the different seat tubes, a bit like some front mechs.

    The whole set up seems quite light as well

    64grms for the bash AND Chainring and approx 45grms for the chain guide.

    looks very neat

    My other pondering is, do BB mount chainguides work better because when you pedal hard enough to flex the frame, the guide goes more with the cranks? Saying this based on Friday’s N-Gear frame flex related guide:chain crash/jam incident…

    Premier Icon Vortexracing
    Subscriber

    I would have thought there would be bugger all deflection between the BB shell and the first 3-4″ of the seat tube. So I think either ST mounted or BB mounted would be OK.

    but thats just my opinion

    It is indeed the seat tube mounted, low clamp one. No shim required. Works a treat πŸ™‚

    Didn’t clog in epping mudbath and didn’t drop on Darkside (using a shadow+ mech at the back ofc).

    It is indeed the seat tube mounted, low clamp one. No shim required. Works a treat

    Ah, I see your Soul is the latest model, mine is the previous generation with the smaller seat tube. Were there some shims included when you bought the guide?

    Dont remember sorry. So many boxes to open, so little time :mrgreen:

    As others have said it’s really too heavy for racing. Steel is about that ever so slight spring feel (IMO) that you don’t get with alu or carbon. However, that spring means less of your energy going into pushing the bike forwards. Plus you have the extra 900g of weight sapping even more energy. If you want a slight springy and the weight saving then titanium is the (expensive) way.

    XC racing is about winning. It’s not about comfort or fun!

    Premier Icon njee20
    Subscriber

    If you want a slight springy and the weight saving then titanium is the (expensive) way.

    You can’t get ti frames down to the weight of carbon either yet.

    Yes it’s a bit heavier than a carbon frame – so I guess it depends how important weight is to you and how light your other components are.

    Also depends on how far away from ideal racing weight the rider is…..

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