I’ve waited a while to post pics of this so you can have some mini-review as well. This is my Cotic FlareMAX longshot. It’s the standard 120mm, bought before the 132 version came out. I got it in the spring, and have been riding it exclusively in Hong Kong over the summer. My main points of comparison are a Nomad I had two years ago (didn’t stick), my Chromag Surface (love it) and a Jones Plus. 

Build:

– Medium frame
– Cane Creek DB Air shock with climb switch
– RS Pike 140mm fork with reduced offset
– SRAM GX Eagle drive
– SRAM Guide RSC brakes
– Hope/Stans Arch Mk3 wheels
– Chromag finishing kit
– DMR Vault peggles
– RS Reverb seatpost
– Weight: yes

What’s the point?

I have poor form with full-sus bikes. However, I am getting old, and the Asian Enduro Series has a silly rule that requires a FS bike for racing (which I haven’t been able to do this year anyway). So the Cotic is set up to be as close as possible to my much-loved Chromag Surface, but with a bit of rear wheel travel. I’m trying to get the advantages of full suspension, but without losing the feel of my favourite bike. Cotic was an obvious choice – the Mk1 Solaris was one of the best bikes I’ve had. 

Reckons

I basically ride hardtails, and I’ve been riding this bike in Hong Kong on hilly, rocky trails. It’s been brutally hot and rather wet. I’m not OK mental health-wise at the moment. Some of my thoughts are probably influenced by that. 

Suspension is great. It was exceedingly easy to set up to behave well. I haven’t bottomed the rear out, despite really trying with a soft shock. It feels controlled and definitely performs well. The bike feels glorious when it’s pointing downhill and you let it go. Very solid, you’ve got excellent control, it sticks to the ground and corners brilliantly, the suspension does its thing very effectively. It feels exactly like I hoped it would. I think the Cane Creek’s climb switch makes a lot of difference. This isn’t a bike where you completely forget about the lockout lever because it’s pointless. Fitting a bottle fouls the climb switch however, which isn’t great. 

Visually, the bike’s lines are great (with no bottle fitted anyway!). It’s the only one in Hong Kong, and most people are excited by it. Pivot bolts have noticeably rusted and there’s significant chainslap damage in front of the chainstay protector – I’m not sure how to protect that area.    

It’s really difficult to shake the feeling that this bike is heavy. It’s not the end of the world, but there’s a certain exhausting deadness to it: it’s fast downhill. As soon as things flatten out, you’re working hard to keep anything happening. Some bikes feel like they want to fly. The FlareMAX feels like it wants to lie down and you could maybe beat it with a branch. Uphill, the weight is noticeable, and the relatively slack seat angle seems to put you a long way back. The pedaling position is alright, but not great – I feel like I want to be on the nose of the saddle a lot. It may be the reduced offset fork, it may be the 140mm fork is too long really, but the steering uphill and at slower speeds is vague and light. I’ve got the saddle all the way forward in the rails and a 40mm stem, more-or-less slammed, and weighting the front wheel on climbs takes real concentration. 
 
The 150mm drop Reverb is grounded against the pivot in the frame – can’t drop it any further, couldn’t possibly use a longer drop post. This is a medium frame, with me being a very average 175cm tall. Standover clearance isn’t good, and having an interrupted seat-tube doesn’t make life any easier. There’s simply too much post sticking out. I’ve already had the reverb line mauled somehow and had to replace it. 

[PinkBike commenter mode] The bottle cage placement and clearance is grim. I’m using a small Fidlock bottle, which is manageable. I’m basically sold on bottle and bumbag for a high proportion of my riding, and having a bottle that is awkward and makes the bike look incredibly stupid is a drawback. [/PinkBike commenter mode]

It’s done some major creaking. Not a Cotic problem I don’t think, but the range of irritating noises that this bike is capable of making has been amazing. I believe most of the creaking is the sad SRAM DUB bottom bracket, but suspension pivot bolts and the rear axle have also spontaneously loosened off, producing various unpleasant noises. I’ve not had a bike sound this bad since the 90s and I loathe it. 

My rapid mate Mark notes that the FlareMAX feels like his long-travel enduro bike, only it doesn’t have long travel. It’s planted, notably heavy, long, slack, confidence-inspiring. But not terribly capable. That’s actually not a huge drawback for me, I don’t exactly send. But honestly the weight, the relentless creaking, the weight, the shonky bottle thing, the weight, the poor dropper post clearance and the weight mean I wish I’d saved my pennies for a different trail bike or a Doctahawk. After riding the FlareMAX exclusively for a while, I went back to the Chromag on whim, and had the best ride I’d had in a couple of months. Let’s finish on that note, as it’s a happy one. 

 

I enjoyed that… also, takes a brave person to admit they don’t really like something they’ve spent a lot of money on, I’ve been guilty of soldiering on with stuff (it turns out) I actually hate when I take a long hard look at it!

I feel rather guilty to be honest. I like Cotic, I was really excited about this bike, and I’m now deeply worried that I’m just not putting my best foot forward with it.

Questions, I guess:

– Has anyone used a FlareMAX with a 140mm fork and also a shorter fork?

– Has anyone got any strong views on fork offset on a bike like this? ( Cy feels it doesn’t matter a whole bunch which seems intuitively likely.)

🙂

I haven’t ridden a Cotic fs but have ridden a few 145/150/160 travel enduro style bikes (including the one I have – a Bird Aeris 145).

Most of them are in the 30-33lb weight area and none of them are really going to ride light or go uphill in the same way as a decent hardtail.

When I swap from my Vitus Sentier back to the Bird it does feel heavy (Vitus has a 140mm Pike / Gx 11 speed / guide R’s / DT e1900’s so its not incredibly light but it’s quite a few lbs lighter than the Bird which has 170mm Lyriks / had the rear travel boosted from 145mm to 160mm / Codes / heavier tyres etc) pedalling uphill or on the flat. I think this is a bit weight, a bit long and slack geo plus some heavier build kit. The Bird pedals fairly efficiently vs it’s travel and weight though – I use it for up to 50km full day off road rides sometimes.

I think it’s just something you’ll Get used to and note the advantages / disadvantages vs your ht and use it appropriately. The Cotic gets pretty good reviews from what I’ve seen.

To add the Aeris lets me get away with ludicrous lines that the Vitus would be catapulting me off onto my face through. Yesterday riding some steeper off piste stuff near me (steeper /
rootier / a bit rocky in places) on the ht I found it noticeably harder than when I rode similar stuff there a month ago on the Aeris.

I think without spending mega money on something carbon and with something like VPP suspension you’re going to find most stuff harder work than your hardtail.

My FlareMAX arrived a few weeks ago. Frame and shock (Cane Creek) only, so I moved the parts over from my old Codeine.

The weight is pretty much identical to the Codeine, so for me, it’s fine.

I found on the Codeine that making the tyres and wheels lighter made a huge difference. It had been quite a chore going uphill. The FlareMAX has those wheels now, and I don’t think it feels slow at all – it’s certainly faster than my hardtail.

I’ve not had any creaking but I’ve probably only done a few hundred miles on it. I’m using a Shimano 12 speed chainset.

I’ve not done enough riding to really review it (one quick cheeky trip to Glentress and some local bridleways) but so far I really like it.

Most of them are in the 30-33lb weight area and none of them are really going to ride light or go uphill in the same way as a decent hardtail.

It’s entirely possible I’m not giving it a fair shake. Summer here gets you 30degrees +, often 95% humidity and questionable air quality. This may all feel like a different animal in more humane temperatures.

I found on the Codeine that making the tyres and wheels lighter made a huge difference

Almost all my riding involves rocky trails and some particularly abrasive granite. I can skimp on tyre weight, but am then straight into sidewall tears, unfortunately. Usually run Maxxis Minions EXOs on the hardtail and on the FS.

the Asian Enduro Series has a silly rule that requires a FS bike for racing

Now that is a silly rule.

Hardtails are lighter, lower maintenance, easier to set up, ride more sprightly, easier to fit multiple bottles to… preferring to ride one over full suss is still totally sound thinking.

Interesting to read a negative review, the other owners here all seem to love them. Maybe we’ve just convinced ourselves we do 😄

Some of the issues you mention aren’t present on larger frames in my experience. XL has space for a bottle in a side loading cage and plenty of standover. No creaks yet after a year but it sounds like you put yours to much harder use.

Sticky back velcro is good for the front of the chainstay. Mine felt better balanced climbing and on corner entry with the fork at 130. I think some of the heavy/dead feeling comes from the cane creek, have you tried getting the app and messing about with it? I am happy plodding uphill and enjoying the stability down so live with it as is.

Mine felt better balanced climbing and on corner entry with the fork at 130

That is very good to know. My LBS is offering to reduce travel on the Pike as a warranty repair (! – the man regards a warranty as a sort of eternal blood-oath…) so I may well experiment. Thank you!

Interesting to read a negative review, the other owners here all seem to love them. Maybe we’ve just convinced ourselves we do 😄

It’s SOO subjective. And most people do like their bikes I think, probably rightly. I’ve worn myself into a deep groove over about 12 years now of liking a particular sort of hardtail and riding them in a particular sort of way.

I used a sticky moldable rubber (something like Sugru) on the chainstay area to prevent chain slap and it’s worked fine.

The bike does weigh more than my hardtail (another Cotic) but it’s in the same ballpark as most other full suss frames I’ve owned so it’s not something that concerns me much, and I do quite a bit of hike a bike too.

Not had an issue with bottle cage, I use the side loading specialized zee cage with a smaller bottle and it’s all good. Clearance is minimal but I can still access the climb switch and the bottle doesn’t foul it.

I have had creaking and I could never really find the culprit but I have had the bike apart and greased up bearings etc and that definitely helped.

The shock mount did come loose at one point (it’s only bolted on) and i’ve tightened this up once and it’s been fine since then. Not had any other issues with things coming loose.

<span style=”font-size: 0.8rem;”>My rapid mate Mark notes that the FlareMAX feels like his long-travel enduro bike, only it doesn’t have long travel. It’s planted, notably heavy, long, slack, confidence-inspiring. But not terribly capable.</span>

So it rides like a bike with much more suspension, is confidence inspiring, but not capable? I’m confused. Sounds to me like you need an xc bike not a heavy-ish trail bike.

@dazh – That puzzled me at first too, but I’m guessing that a bike that inspires confidence and feels like it has more travel can be disappointing if it doesn’t actually perform like one.

Having the downsides of a long travel bike when on uphill or flat trails but without the fun going downhill is possibly the worst of both worlds. I’ve just bought a short travel, slack and heavy trail bike so I hope it isn’t the case!

I quite liked the FlareMax when I demoed it, but I didn’t really have much time on it and I’m not a good enough rider to find its limits.

Thanks for posting @BigDummy. I’ve had mine for around 18 months now. Still love it, but am trying not to keep going on about it on here as it gets a bit boring, so it’s really good to hear a more negative review.

I think weight can be psychological i.e. if you know that a bike is “heavy” then it feels heavy. In fact it’s only a few Kg heavier than an XC bike and since (even at just over 12 stone) I’m carrying far more than that in excess fat I tend to think any heavy feeling is more likely to be me than the bike.

A few other differences that might be significant.

I’m running my Pike at 130mm and find it nicely balanced on climbs (only having to scoot forward on the steepest ramps).

Tyres are obviously significant. I run a (semi-slick) RockRazor on the back (with a soft Magic Mary upfront). Mind you, the Ardent isn’t exactly a slow tyre.

Mine is a large.

I’m running the Xfusion O2 shock. The CC should be better but I’ve read enough reviews from people with the CC saying that it isn’t the best climber that it’s put me off upgrading. I think mine climbs as well as any bike I’ve owned (especially the more technical climbs).

Having the downsides of a long travel bike when on uphill or flat trails but without the fun going downhill is possibly the worst of both worlds.

Well TBF I read that comment in the context of it’s downhill performance rather than the opposite. I’m curious if that’s what the OP meant.

I’ve had my flare max for about 6 months now . I can relate to the frustration with the dub bottom bracket , mines started to make a fair bit of noise . I also had a few creaks early on from around the shock mounts but I reassembled it all with a bit of grease and that seemed to fix it .

i think it’s just a solid all round mountain bike , I’ve raced a few enduros on it and done a couple of endurance events too . Whilst not being the perfect tool for the job it manages them perfectly fine . It’s perfect for me and the type of riding I do .

Its certainly no lightweight but I’m not looking to set any records up hill , having said that I have the tough casing wtb judge on the back and a vigilante on the front so there is definitely scope for knocking a bit off .

The travel thing is a funny one , if the longer travel one had been available I think I probably would of gone for it but having ridden the standard with 130mm fork I’m not sure it would make to much difference, for me anyway . I really should have a play with the cane creek shock though. Is the app any good does anyone know ?

Just a quick note on creaks.

I had a small creak on compression after a few weeks due to the lower shock mounting bolt working a bit loose. A quick tweak with the allen key though and mine has been pretty much silent until a few weeks ago when it started to develop a creak on pedalling. I think my driveside BB bearing may be shot, but I need to pull it apart to have a look. In general it hasn’t creaked any more than any other bike I don’t think and (other than that shock bolt) I’ve not had any issue with bolts working loose.

I also don’t think it’s actual weight, otherwise my bike would feel amazing at the end of a ride when my water bottle is empty! As you have similar tyres on both bikes why not try pumping the shock up to say 20% sag? If it feels less dead/heavy try getting the dialled app and messing about with the shock or seeing if any friends have different 190mm shocks you could try.

I’d definitely shorten the fork to 130 or even 120mm (make sure you raise the bars a bit), take out any volume spacers in the shock, increase the pressure and reduce the sag (speed up the rebound to suit) and add more LSC.

That’ll steepen the angles and make it feel more like your hardtail but you’ll still be able to use the travel under big hits.

I cant help but think that a Tallboy would be better suited for your needs 🙂
Its been a particularly brutal horrible summer which will effect any objective thinking on a bike when nature is playing a large part in not letting you enjoy the ride. I suspect once that creak is fixed and it starts to get more pleasant out you will start to look at the some of the other issues differently. It does look the shizzle.

Well TBF I read that comment in the context of it’s downhill performance rather than the opposite. I’m curious if that’s what the OP meant.

dazh
How dare you come over here to the bike forum with your alt.right viewpoints,questioning ambiguous bike review comments.Get back to being bullied by all and sundry in the EU thread 😉

It’s really difficult to shake the feeling that this bike is heavy

It is quite heavy for a 120mm bike. It’s a short travel enduro bike really IMO and very fast on moderately enduro-y trails.

Wasn’t quite what I needed when I demo-ed one, wrote some thoughts on it here…

Cotic demo day – SolarisMax and FlareMax

PS. have you mucked about with the shock settings? might be room to perk it up a bit that way?

I think weight can be psychological

have you mucked about with the shock settings? might be room to perk it up a bit that way?

If it feels less dead/heavy try getting the dialled app and messing about with the shock

These are all solid reckons. I shall fiddle aggressively with the shock and see if I can get it to feel happier. I may be able to get a loaner on a ShockWiz, which might turn it into an interesting project.

I’d definitely shorten the fork to 130

I’m running my Pike at 130mm and find it nicely balanced on climbs (only having to scoot forward on the steepest ramps).

I’m taking that as solid, actionable advice, and my LBS is going to get it done. I’ll update at some point when I’ve had a play.

Having the downsides of a long travel bike when on uphill or flat trails but without the fun going downhill is possibly the worst of both worlds.

I’ve confused things here by chucking in my mate’s perspective. He rides much harder than I do and felt that having a heavy, big-feeling bike was weird when you’d actually only got short travel to use. He can always bottom my bikes out. So for him, the problem is different. My problem is “feels good coming down, huge slog going up”. He’s used to climbing being a slog, but easily found the limits descending and wanted more playfulness if the descending was going to be that limited. Does that make more sense?

Its been a particularly brutal horrible summer which will effect any objective thinking on a bike when nature is playing a large part in not letting you enjoy the ride. I suspect once that creak is fixed and it starts to get more pleasant out you will start to look at the some of the other issues differently. It does look the shizzle.

Preach, brother. Let’s hope it cools down soon! 🙂

By the way, thank you all for your constructive thoughts and suggestions.

I had a good dither about whether to post vaguely negative thoughts, and in fact I’ve got a lot of helpful “have you trieds?” and not a single “piss orf, ur rong!”.

This has been some excellent Singletrackworld, right here. 🙂

Oh go on then 😁
JR “piss off ur rong” 😂
Love, JM 😜

My problem is “feels good coming down, huge slog going up”.

You just described every trail bike that existed, although there are some that do a passable impression of an xc bike like the Bird Aeris or Intense Primer.

Try being more aggressive descending. The Flaremax is very forgiving and you’ll soon be riding stuff without thinking that you couldn’t do before. You’ll get used to the sluggish climbing, look at it as good training 😀

if that doesn’t work then an XC bike might be your best option.

How dare you come over here to the bike forum with your <span class=”skimlinks-unlinked”>alt.right</span>viewpoints

True. I’m definitely on safer ground talking crap about bikes than politics 😀

You just described every trail bike that existed

Pinkbike reviews have been lying to me! 😀

TBF I didn’t get along with the FlareMAX either. Didn’t suit my riding and I couldn’t wait to get rid of it. I had it set up right but it always felt like a tank to me. I ran it on plus tyres so maybe that made a difference, at the end of the day everyone is different and if you don’t like it, change it.

I’ve confused things here by chucking in my mate’s perspective

What does it matter what he thinks, it may not be his type of bike so he’ll always compare it to what he likes and wants (which is fine) but it shouldn’t skew your thoughts.

I find the bike quite fun and playful due to the short travel but compared to other bikes in this travel category it may be slightly heavy. The angles and geo aren’t really suited to bimbling around it does like a bit of input and speed.

By the way the Chromag of yours looks sooo nice 🙂

I had it set up right but it always felt like a tank to me

Just tried that on mine too and it felt heavier, draggier and less playful so back to 29 wheels it was. I was using Sonder/Alpkit wheels which aren’t that light tbf.

Just to throw my hat into the ring 🙂

I’ve got an XL FlareMax; I came to it from a ~2004 PRST-4 in Medium. Which is *quite* a change.

I’m running 130mm Helms up front; with as little damping as I can get away with on the rear shock. I’m not the lightest rider at 13.5 stone; but find that it runs better with the rear shock on the firmer side. I had suspension creak gremlins this week; but a disassemble and clean/grease as appropriate seemed to sort it. The Whyte rattled like a tin can full of keys; so I’m probably less sensitive to these kind of things 😀

It’s been a revelation to me tbh. I’m riding stuff I never thought I’d be comfortable doing – steep stuff; drops; even some jumps. I was firmly a wheels-on-the-ground rider before I got it. It does feel heavier on the climbs (though according to my GPS its usually faster) and it took a while to get used to the steering feeling like it had a mind of its own on the way up – a slightly steeper seat tube angle would maybe help; but I used to have to get on the nose of the seat to keep the wheel down on my Whyte too; so I’m not really sure. It definitely responds better to an aggressive climbing style rather than sit back and spin. It took a while for me to update my riding style too. I’d had 20 years of steep angled XC oriented bikes. I’ve yet to be brave enough to weight the front wheel enough to have any issues; I’m increasingly finding that I don’t need to make deliberate backwards movements on the bike when it gets steep; just allow the bike to move underneath me.

The single biggest complaint I’ve got is that I seem to have tons of pedal strikes; but by all accounts it’s actually got a high BB for a trail bike ! I’m tempted to try the 132 tune on the rear shock and up the forks to 140mm and see if that helps; but they also seem to be getting less frequent so I’m clearly being more careful…

**spam alert**

I have a CC DBAir in 190×50 to sell at a v reasonable price if anyone’s interested in trying the 132mm thing on their FlareMAX

The single biggest complaint I’ve got is that I seem to have tons of pedal strikes; but by all accounts it’s actually got a high BB for a trail bike ! I’m tempted to try the 132 tune on the rear shock and up the forks to 140mm and see if that helps

I don’t think the 132 “conversion” would help with pedal strikes. As I understand it the 132 option is the same static geometry just goes a bit deeper into the travel. So, if anything , that should make pedal strikes worse. Upping the forks to 140mm would help, but I don’t think you need the 132 option to do that.

One of the big reasons why I chose the FlareMax over similar bikes on my shortlist was the higher BB as I do a lot of natural riding often on rutted trails. I’m running 170mm cranks and don’t find it too bad, but do still get some.

What shock are you using @stevehine I think my Xfusion may be lacking a bit in terms of mid-stroke support, which may be part of the issue. But since you said you needed to back the damping right off I’m guessing you have the CC. The Xfusion (or mine at least) doesn’t seem to have much (rebound) damping whatever you do with the dial.

By the way, as a confirmed FlareMax fanboy I’m delighted to see these negative comments.

Ah; fair enough @roverpig ! I just assumed you’d get an extra 5mm length on the uncompressed shock; given that max travel seems to be pretty close to visually bottoming out the shock. Maybe there’s an extra 5mm to be had though …

Yes; it’s the CC shock on mine; no complaints about the feel of the suspension; I did find it tended to pack down a little bit until I reduced the damping but other than that I’ve not had to adjust a thing. I’m probably over complaining about the pedal strike thing; by all accounts I’d be worse off with any other bike ! – I much prefer natural trails too; spent most of my formative mountain biking in the NYM before such things as trail centres really existed.

I am tempted by @chakaping’s offer still though 🙂

If you do go for it I might be interested in your standard length one then 🙂 I keep thinking of “upgrading” the Xfusion but can’t shake the feeling that the CC might make the climbs harder. Only one way to find out though.

@roverpig – I don’t suppose your going to the owners ride @ Gisburn are you ? Be happy to swap bikes for a play if you wanted to try the other shock before you committed !

What is it about the CC that you think might make the climbs harder ?

Not going to the meet I’m afraid. Partly because I’m up in the frozen north, but mostly because I’m an antisocial git 🙂

I’m sure this is just based on ignorance, but I never understood the logic of increasing rebound damping when climbing. I can see that increasing compression damping would make the shock resist compression which should mean more energy gets to the back wheel on smooth climbs. But once the shock has compressed I would have thought you’d want to to extend with as little damping as possible, so you get as much of your energy back as possible. Rebound damping when climbing is just turning some of the energy I’ve put into the shock into heat, which seems wrong to me. But this is just armchair theory with no evidence to back it up.

My problem is “feels good coming down, huge slog going up”.

I’d stick something proper fast on the back – a Rock Razor for example – and see how that works. Quite a lot of ‘heavy feeling’ comes from ‘slow rolling’. I have vague memories of Cotic launching the original Rocket to the media with a Maxxis Ikon on the back. Lots of reports said that it ‘didn’t feel like a 30lb + bike’ probably as a result of that.

A mate of mine who was on that launch told me, ‘Of course it feels like a 30lb+ bike, it is one’, but… the fast-rolling tyre made it feel livelier than you’d expect.

The other issue, which is what puts me off the FlareMAX – is the relatively slack seat-tube angle. There’s not much you can do about that unless you’re the sort of lunatic who’s prepared to take a Thomson ‘lay-back’ post and reverse it, which I’m not.

Anyway, thanks for the mini-review. Interesting read.

Reminds me I need to try a different rear tyre on mine, it came with a vigilante on there for some reason and I never changed it. Probably not the best choice for long days out.

I changed the Vigilantes on mine for Bontrager XR4 on the front and XR3 on the rear. They’re considerably lighter and seem to roll a lot faster. Bike also felt more nimble possibly due to their rounded profile. Definitely felt like less effort on the climbs and grip is excellent.