Premier League football clubs?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52120578?fbclid=IwAR2GLG_sXLbr1BaRhDD5huWjVsnXia_9WpybUcnfhBlTMLGhxKVj_F1Elpg

Not Burnley!

Paying all non-playing staff, including matchday casual workers.

Matt

Makes a change for Burnley from a couple of years ago then when the support staff were being regularly ignored.

Bond Turner Solicitors – 400 staff sat far closer than 2m and when the sister of any employee said this on Twitter they immediately sacked her brother.

Rico Back CEO @ Royal Mail…

Postal workers were told this afternoon that it is business as usual including delivery of junk mail and that PPE in no longer essential and regularly washing your hands will be enough.

Wife has just come off the phone to her employer. She has a few days of her notice left. The employer she was going to has furloughed their staff.

Her current employer, who promote themselves on how they look after their people, has refused to let her withdrawal her notice. They are just about to furlough a large proportion of their 2000 staff but they wouldn’t let her furlough through them despite 14 years service and no cost to them.

Interesting – I have the opposite situation as a manager. Employee handed notice in at end of Feb and was due to leave yesterday to take up an overseas contract. Due to travel she now can’t. We’ve offered a few extra days of contract work to finalise some handover stuff that got sidelined while we were shutting down our site but she now wants to extend her leaving date.

We’re keeping all our staff on, but due to not being able to access site there is limited invoiceable work that can be done, it’s mainly writing up reports and the like on technical work that’s been done. If I let her stay on we can’t invoice any more, but I get additional cost.

She was happy to hand notice in and leave me struggling to recruit another person to do the technical work, the training involved, etc., so she could follow her ambition. I’m sorry that this has rebounded leaving her with limited income, but it’s not my problem her new contract is being delayed until she can physically start work.

If they withdrew their notice I might be able to compromise on the extra wages for the long term benefit but I also suspect she’d then hand it in again once this is done.

Am I a git for not extending the leave date? Any way that I can legally hold someone in a job for a longer period (in real life I mean – I could request a 6mo notice but then they could effectively get themselves fired and leave anyway)

Am I allowed to put an entire industry into room 101 through thin anecdotal evidence? If so the building trade – more specifically the small family run hypocrites of the breed.

Entertaining fly on the wall yesterday evening with Mrs C’s friends over Zoom. One just layed off by employer rather than furloughed, another in week three of opening a shop both understandably stressed. But another who’s husband and sons are in the trade was ‘very concerned’ at the unfair government offer for the self employed. Apparently only compensating the declared profit rather than their real earnings when everyone knows it’s higher is totally unfair and leaving them in a hell of a mess. Her husband and sons were ‘very clever’ and their skill at not putting money through the books should not see them disadvantaged now. When quizzed by the others about why should the public purse bail them out when they have gone out of their way to evade tax for years they were met with ‘you are all so naive’ and ‘this is how everyone in the trade does it’.

Later in the conversation same woman was complaining about lack of preparedness of NHS and how underfunding of the NHS was a national disgrace without a hint of irony.

Am I a git for not extending the leave date?

Yep, I’d say so. And so does Martin Lewis – https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10163530603020171&set=gm.1125829704416994&type=3&theater

Me too. Not to be judgemental and all that, but everyone needs all the help they can get right now.

To deny, or allow, someone’s livelihood support is your responsibility – not ours 🙂

Really?

They were leaving without worrying about the impact on us

There’s no valuable work for them to do (everything they can do can be done by others; no-one has enough to fill their time properly)

As soon as flights open up again, they will want to leave to start their new contract

We are a business that is treating our employees reasonably but we are not a charity. There’s 4 in this team (now 3) and paying someone that can’t do any valuable work to read around the subject and develop their skill set so they can then go elsewhere and use it, and by doing so ultimately compromise the sustainability of the others in the group…..

[edit]

and that Martin Lewis example isn’t the same as what’s being asked……she wants to come back and ‘work’ for us (even though there’s no work) for as long as this lasts

If I can re-employ and then furlough them, that might be a compromise, but still creates an issue about them ‘leaving’ rather than coming back to work after the furlough is lifted.

I’ll look into that with Payroll tomorrow, but thanks for the tip-off.

You can keep her on at furlough at zero cost to you. Zero. Not a penny. Why would you not?

and edit to your edit – but keeping her on and working if there is no work would be unreasonable yes.

I think you are taking her decision to leave and give her notice personally. Newsflash – that’s what good/useful employees do. Including you at some point in the past I don’t doubt.

Look up and see the bigger picture.

Can you not just extend the employment and then furlough them. That way they can’t work, you’ve effectively laid them off, and you can sort out the 80% that the state will pick up. That way you get some karma and they are grateful.

@convert Easy tiger!

Until 5 minutes ago I didn’t know the furlough option was an option for someone that had resigned. I was responding to your original post, you added the ML bit while I was typing, so having a go at me for not knowing that is rather harsh, I’ve said I’ll look at it and even thanked you for the tip!

It’s not personal – far from, while I’m disappointed to not benefit longer term from the training and development that we’ve put in, and the hole it created for us, I have a policy of staff development and one of the risks of that is that it makes my staff very employable. I hope it also makes them want to stay with us, but in this case the job and chance to work on the other side of the world is great opportunity and we haven’t made any great effort to retain them because realistically we cannot counter the opportunity with any sort of affordable money.

Yes, bigger picture I don’t want them to struggle, but if the impact of keeping them on is then that i have to ask the other 3 members of the team to eg: take a pay cut to balance the extra cost – that’s bigger picture to me.

Until 5 minutes ago I didn’t know the furlough option was an option for someone that had resigned. Having a go at me for not knowing that is rather harsh, I’ve said I’ll look at it.

Yes – I was pretty harsh, but our posts did cross. On the other hand I would think it was the moral obligation of every employer to be up to speed with this – the state has made you the gatekeepers of the welfare state. Which I guess you are one step towards being now. The clarification in the Martin Lewis post was for folk that already had their p45 in their hand so as that was only yesterday fair dos not knowing. But the situation for those who have given their notice but were still employed was clear from day one after the announcement and someone in your payroll/Hr will have got the HMRC email detailing it all.

Accepted…..no hard feelings and thanks for the tip

I’m a science and technology manager, and I’ll be taking this up with HR / payroll tomorrow. Based only on reading the papers I had thought (wrongly) that furlough was an option for employees, not ex-employees – technically she has already left but is now on a 9d contract at full rate, partly because there is handover work to be done but also partly because i can more easily justify and afford that. If I was a total git, we’d manage without (and if she hadn’t asked to come back and instead went to drive a delivery van we’d have to) – and I could save another chunk of wages.

NOT Timpsons. In times like thsi cream rises to the top. I was impressed by his interview on R4.

This also flushes out companies with precipitous cash flow. Hello Tim, how’s that Schadenfreude, can I order it on your app? Even my sons won’t go back to “posh spoons” again!

They were leaving without worrying about the impact on us

The labour market has changed a bit in the last couple of weeks.

I’m allowing a member of my team to withdraw their resignation.

Would be just reward if tim martin found himself trading in a different world when all of this is over.
Recognised as having behaved like a shit, looked to shaft his suppliers, oodles of bad publicity.
There will still be students and brexiters wanting cheap booze; the first group will gradually see the light and the other group will be dying off.

So an employee wants to leave a company and the country…fair enough.

And then…oh hold on I’ve changed my mind…”ok if you taxpayers sort me our for the next couple of months…and then I’ll be off.”

I’m not sure I want my tax pounds being spent that way – not on someone who won’t be paying back into the system because they pre-decided to leave the country.

And what if they get corona – surely it’s the responsibility of their destination health service to treat them since they had pre-decided to leave and won’t be supporting the NHS in future?

martinhutch – yes good point – I would say yes of course they have access to NHS – but being put on furlough as some kind of favour just seems wrong me. Just because it costs the company zero doesn’t make it right.

I was quite frankly gobsmacked the some of the football stories last night !!!

The labour market has changed a bit in the last couple of weeks.

I’m allowing a member of my team to withdraw their resignation.

I’d allow that if it was a proper withdrawal, but not ‘can I delay resigning to do no valuable work, just upskill myself and then resign as soon as everything opens up again’

Also true on the taxpayers money being paid to keep someone going so they don’t have a problem getting by before they can go off and develop someone else’s economy…..but I suppose the argument there is that they have paid into the system previously and don’t get a refund now they won’t be using the NHS, etc. while abroad, so it’s a bit 6 and two 3’s there.

I have asked HR to check the furlough situation.

I agree with theotherjohnv

and darkroomtimv

from the Guardian

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/apr/02/millions-uk-slip-through-coronavirus-pay-wage-safety-net-self-employed-wage-subsidy

A further 2 million more people who run their own company will also slip through gaps in the safety net deployed last week by the chancellor, Rishi Sunak, because they pay themselves much of their income in dividends, and less through a salary. A salary can be paid partially by the government, while dividends are excluded.

Sounds fair to me.

Convert – you have my backing and I work in that industry!

Like all walks of life there are some decent trades people about, but there does seem to be too many who have no moral compass.

Dividends are still taxed, the tax is paid on profit made before it can be allocated to div. The advantage is that its a flat rate tax. Equally no profit made = no dividend.

That whole deal with premier league clubs is just taking the absolute piss, absolutely disgusting.

I’ve supported spurs for 35 years but as of yesterday they can go xxxx themselves.

theotherjonv – to willingly leave someone high and dry with no income at a time like this when there is an option not to is pretty despicable. So hopefully you can figure out the furlough situation for them and do the decent thing.

I’d allow that if it was a proper withdrawal, but not ‘can I delay resigning to do no valuable work, just upskill myself and then resign as soon as everything opens up again’

That’s what I’m doing – my team member is still intending to leave, but their new job start date is delayed. It seemed like the decent thing to do.

Newcastle United season ticket holders don’t have any choice in who to give their money to: many of them had £600 taken from their bank account last week.

In fairness, they are used to handing over large sums with nothing but disappointment to show for it.

@TiRed, I’ll have to find that on i-player or whatever.

I saw a facebook post earlier that basically sang Timpsons praises, and I’m seriously impressed!

^ yep, Timpsons are definitely on the list of good guys. I’ll find some shoes to repair!

That’s what I’m doing – my team member is still intending to leave, but their new job start date is delayed. It seemed like the decent thing to do.

Does that affect the work your other team members can do – potentially bringing forward the date at which work and revenue dries up and the point we may have to ask everyone to take a pay cut to balance the lack of work?

Maybe that’s the option, I could ask them. Hey Dave and Phil, you know Bob was sodding off to follow his ambitions and you were going to have to absorb his work while we find a replacement. Now he wants to know if he can stay until this resolves, with the caveat being that as I only have enough work for two of you you’ll all have to share it out on 66% pay. And then at the end of it he’s still sodding off and you can pick up the pieces again including all the stuff we’re behind because we can’t work on it now (but I’ll reinstate your full pay at that point)

Add Opodo to the list – taking 90 days to refund cancelled flights when the airline have confirmed that they are refunding Opodo within 24 hours of the request being made.

Ryanair continue to impress with their arrogance and stupidity.

Refusing to refund their customers until this is all over, despite the law saying it should be done in a week. And then O’Leary getting his face on tv to say how crap it would be if Virgin Atlantic got a lift from the govt.

I would claim to never use them again, but I would never use them anyway

Yep, Boomer, Ryanair have got about a grand of our money which we’re not seeing anytime soon. O’Leary must be as thick as if he can’t see that Easyjet have played a stroke by coughing up. I for one will remember that if I ever find myself in the position of booking a flight. Same with Timpsons, the bloke in the local shop is a gem and very well regarded across town, they help rehabilitate ex-cons and generally do the decent thing. I’m not encouraging it but I can imagine in the future a certain amount of defenestration and polluted shoes.

Any company that pays dividends in the next year having furloughed or laid off staff.

Why don’t premiere league clubs furlough their players if the situation for them is that concerning? That’d be a right kick for those not accepting temporary cuts.

Keep this link handy.

It sets out reasons that you may or may not agree with, but is a good start.

https://www.lewiscotter.com/brands